Looking for guidance on a Monk Build

[cullynthedwarf]

I am looking for guidance on monk build that would allow for the best use of Flying Kick, and Bounding Assalt/ Rabid Blitz. any one who can help with a 20 level build. Im not looking for more then 3 classes including the Base Monk.

Thank you all for the help

[SirNibbles]

I wouldn't recommend Bounding Assault/Rapid Blitz, but if you're going for it, you'll need 18 BAB. That means you'll be waiting until level 19 to take that, at the earliest, unless you use Martial Monk.

If you're taking the Spring Attack line of feats, check this out as well:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?533976-A-martial-arts-style-for-Dodging&highlight=martial+arts+style+dodging

[cullynthedwarf]

Is martial monk a build or a feat, if its a feat what book is it out of?

[Telonius]

Is martial monk a build or a feat, if its a feat what book is it out of?

It's an ACF from Dragon Magazine.

[Grod_The_Giant]

It's an ACF from Dragon Magazine.
Specifically issue #310. The selling point is that you can pick your 1st, 2nd, and 6th level bonus feats from the complete list of Fighter bonus feats. But thanks to the "a monk need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them" language of the Monk bonus feat class feature, you can pick even feats that normally require a very high level. It's moderate cheese, and (while tempting) I have a hard time recommending it.

That being said, the Spring Attack chain has awful prerequisites. Using the Martial Monk to grab Spring Attack at 1st, Bounding Assault at 2nd, and Rapid Blitz at 6th is probably the best way to do it. After that, you might consider dipping Scout (Complete Adventurer) for Skirmish damage, since Monk starts to fade. Veering into a full-BAB skirmisher like Highland Stalker or Ranger (with Swift Hunter) would complete the build nicely.

You might have noticed there's no Flying Kick in there. The difficulty with the build you're proposing is that the Spring Attack chain and Flying Kick aren't compatible. Flying Kick requires that you charge; Spring Attack is its own special action/attack type.

To present a counterexample, the Flying Kick build would probably involve a level of Barbarian with the Spirit Lion Totem ACF (Complete Champion) that grants Pounce. Start with that and switch to Monk at 2nd level-- you'll become an ex-Barbarian and lose the ability to rage, but that's alright, we only care about pounce. Now you can charge, full attack Flurry, and add Flying Kick damage to multiple attacks.

[SirNibbles]

Specifically issue #310. The selling point is that you can pick your 1st, 2nd, and 6th level bonus feats from the complete list of Fighter bonus feats. But thanks to the "a monk need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them" language of the Monk bonus feat class feature, you can pick even feats that normally require a very high level. It's moderate cheese, and (while tempting) I have a hard time recommending it.

That being said, the Spring Attack chain has awful prerequisites. Using the Martial Monk to grab Spring Attack at 1st, Bounding Assault at 2nd, and Rapid Blitz at 6th is probably the best way to do it. After that, you might consider dipping Scout (Complete Adventurer) for Skirmish damage, since Monk starts to fade. Veering into a full-BAB skirmisher like Highland Stalker or Ranger (with Swift Hunter) would complete the build nicely.

You might have noticed there's no Flying Kick in there. The difficulty with the build you're proposing is that the Spring Attack chain and Flying Kick aren't compatible. Flying Kick requires that you charge; Spring Attack is its own special action/attack type.

To present a counterexample, the Flying Kick build would probably involve a level of Barbarian with the Spirit Lion Totem ACF (Complete Champion) that grants Pounce. Start with that and switch to Monk at 2nd level-- you'll become an ex-Barbarian and lose the ability to rage, but that's alright, we only care about pounce. Now you can charge, full attack Flurry, and add Flying Kick damage to multiple attacks.

I agree with pretty much everything you said there.

A Swift Hunter (Complete Scoundrel, page 81) Scout (Complete Adventurer, page 10)/Ranger build would probably be a reasonably powerful and easy-to-use build. Martial Monk 6/Scout 3/Ranger 11 gets you 17 BAB and 3rd level spells at 20.

Six levels of Monk is plenty if you use a Monk's Belt (Dungeon Master's Guide, page 248), Monk's Tattoo (Magic of Faerûn, page 163), and the Ascetic Hunter feat (Complete Adventurer, page 105). Your effective Monk levels would be: 26 for Unarmed Strike (capped at 20; 2d10); 10 for Speed (+30 feet); and 15 for AC Bonus (+3).

I'll add that Martial Monk is an ACF from Dragon Magazine #310, page 45. I'd've included the source as I usually do but it was 2:30 AM and I couldn't be bothered.

__

If you don't have a copy of Dragon Magazine #310, I'll simply explain what Martial Monk does:
-adds all Fighter Bonus feats to your Monk Bonus feat options
-adds Intimidate as a class skill
-removes all Knowledge skills from your Monk's class skills
-removes 1 skill point per level (this is multiplied at level 1 if you start with Monk 1)
-can multiclass between Monk and Fighter with no penalty

__

If you decide to pick up Dodge and Mobility (I don't see why you would), you'll automatically get Temerad Mastery I (Dragon Magazine #309, page 67), allowing you to have 2 Dodge targets (or +2 AC vs a single target). At that point, you may as well pick up the Word Given Form Mastery (Tome of Magic, page 218) by taking Combat Expertise. Again, this is a giant waste of feats, so you should avoid it.

See Oriental Adventures, page 80 for more information about Martial Arts Masteries.

__

On a side note, I find a Lion Spirit Totem Barbarian 1 suddenly turning lawful and going into Monk or Paladin just as cheesy as Martial Monk.

[Grod_The_Giant]

On a side note, I find a Lion Spirit Totem Barbarian 1 suddenly turning lawful and going into Monk or Paladin just as cheesy as Martial Monk.
Eh, it's tonally dissonant if you don't refluff it (or hell, justify it-- "wild streetfighter who learned proper discipline" isn't that weird), but it's mechanically straightforward and non-controversial. Martial Monk is... I mean, we can't know for sure, but I find it very doubtful that the intention was to let you bypass prereqs like it does. The skills are wonky too. It's just poorly written.

[Togo]

For such a build, strength is likely to be very important, and wisdom much less important.

[SirNibbles]

Here's a rough build layout, with optional feat choices in grey. I don't know how you're generating stats so you may have to adjust slightly, but you get the general idea- prioritise STR, WIS/DEX, CON/INT, CHA in that order. You'll need at least WIS 16 to be able to cast 3rd level spells when you hit level 20.

Human
STR - 15
DEX - 13
CON - 10
INT - 10
WIS - 13
CHA - 8

Ranger 1
Level 1 Feat - Travel Devotion (Complete Champion, page 62)
Human Bonus Feat - Improved Initiative
Favoured Enemy: Undead (or Favoured enemy: Arcanist from Complete Mage, page 32)

Martial Monk 1
Monk Bonus Feat - Spring Attack

Martial Monk 2
Monk Bonus Feat - Bounding Assault (Player's Handbook II, page 75)
Level 3 Feat - Ascetic Hunter (Complete Adventurer, page 105)

Martial Monk 3

Martial Monk 4

Martial Monk 5
Level 6 Feat - Practiced Spellcaster (Complete Divine, page 82)

Martial Monk 6
Monk Bonus Feat - Rapid Blitz (Player's Handbook II, page 82

Scout 1

Scout 2
Level 9 Feat - Dash (Miniatures Handbook, page 25)

Scout 3

Ranger 2
Combat Style: Strong-Arm Style (Dragon Magazine #326, page 97); Bonus Feat: Power Attack

Ranger 3
Level 12 Feat - Swift Hunter (Complete Scoundrel, page 81)

From that point, just keep taking Ranger levels. Your other Ranger Combat Style feats will be Improved Sunder and Great Cleave. At Ranger 5, take Favoured Enemy: Elemental (or Undead if you took Arcanist at level 1). At Ranger 10, take Favoured Enemy: Construct (or Elemental if you took Arcanist at 1 and Undead at 5).