Usefulness and applicability of spell cards?

[leegi0n]

Playgrounders,

I'm running a sizable session for a group of kids (ages 10-12). There are 4 of them that want to play spellcasters and I stumbled across the 5e spellcaster cards at a comic store the other day. My homebrew is a 3.0-3.5 hybrid, really. I'm thinking that something like these cards would help the kids manage their spells better than fumbling with PHB, 100% of the time.

I'm not familiar with 5e, really, as I have been playing homebrew since about 2005. How much different are the spells and their functionality between 3.5 and 5e?

Ultimately, are they similar enough that these cards would fit and be usable and in conjunction with 3.0/3.5 core rule set?

Thank you for your time -

[Grod_The_Giant]

Not even a little bit. 5e spells have totally different underlying mechanics.

[leegi0n]

Not even a little bit. 5e spells have totally different underlying mechanics.

Oh ok. How are they different?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Oh ok. How are they different?

5e spells scale primarily through spell slot, rather than caster level-- Fireball doesn't do 1d6 per level, it does 8d6 if cast from a 3rd level slot, 9d6 from a 4th, and so on.
The numbers in 5e spells are totally different, because numbers in that game in general are different. Particularly bonuses--5e has "bounded accuracy," meaning it's difficult to get even small bonuses above your basic level-based modifier+ability modifier.
5e uses a different concentration mechanic. Most ongoing spells are "concentration," and you can only concentrate on one spell at a time, and you can easily lose them if you get hit.
5e spell effects are altered for balance, simplicity, or both.


Just... everything is different. The names are the same, but the mechanics are very much altered. Like, you might as well use 4e powers as 5e spells. Here, he's the 5e version of Mage Armor:


Mage Armor
1st-level abjuration
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Components: V, S, M (a piece of cured leather)
Duration: 8 hours

You touch a willing creature who isn’t wearing armor, and a protective magical force surrounds it until the spell ends. The target’s base AC becomes 13 + its Dexterity modifier. The spell ends if the target dons armor or if you dismiss the spell as an action.

or Enlarge Person:


Enlarge/Reduce
2nd-level transmutation
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 30 feet
Components: V, S, M (a pinch of powdered iron)
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute

You cause a creature or an object you can see within range to grow larger or smaller for the duration. Choose either a creature or an object that is neither worn nor carried. If the target is unwilling, it can make a Constitution saving throw. On a success, the spell has no effect. If the target is a creature, everything it is wearing and carrying changes size with it. Any item dropped by an affected creature returns to normal size at once.

Enlarge. The target’s size doubles in all dimensions, and its weight is multiplied by eight. This growth increases its size by one category – from Medium to Large, for example. If there isn’t enough room for the target to double its size, the creature or object attains the maximum possible size in the space available. Until the spell ends, the target also has advantage on Strength checks and Strength saving throws. The target’s weapons also grow to match its new size. While these weapons are enlarged, the target’s attack with them deal 1d4 extra damage.

Reduce. The target’s size is halved in all dimensions, and its weight is reduced to one-eighth of normal. This reduction decreases its size by one category – from Medium to Small, for example. Until the spell ends, the target also has disadvantage on Strength checks and Strength saving throws. The target’s weapons also shrink to match its new size. While these weapons are reduced, the target’s attacks with them deal 1d4 less damage (this can’t reduce the damage below 1).

[Andry]

You could always make the cards yourself. Just saying.

[Fizban]

Spell cards could help, or they could hinder, depending on the kids, but I generally like the idea. It's a pain making them yourself but you can buy 3rd party pdfs with the PHB spells ready to print yourself. Granted, I wasn't too impressed with the sample on the one I checked out, but it's better than nothing.

[Captn_Flounder]

Probably not the right answer, but why not use 5e? Its super intuitive and way easier for the younger crowd to get into.

[Psyren]

If you really want to get them into 3e I'd start with a scaled-back version like the PF Beginner Box. You could actually convert that back to 3.5 fairly easily, or just stick with Pathfinder.

[exelsisxax]

I think spell cards are very useful. Spell cards from a different game than the one being played are worth less than nothing, so don't even consider doing that.

But really, DO NOT play 3.5 with a large group of newbie children. Your best bet is 5E, though even pathfinder is going to be a lot easier.

[BearonVonMu]

Making your own spell cards for Pathfinder is pretty simple, actually.
Copy the spell from the Pathfinder SRD to notepad to eliminate hyperlinks, then copy that to a PowerPoint slide, deleting any non-relevant information (such as other classes that use the spell)
Make each spell one slide, then print four slides to a page.
Either leave it like that or use a paper cutter to make the individual cards.

I do this for all of my casters and initiators. It's fantastic!

[Grod_The_Giant]

Do Pathfinder spell cards exist, actually? I feel like I've seen them, and Pathfinder spells are close enough to 3.5 to be worth it.

[Psyren]

Do Pathfinder spell cards exist, actually? I feel like I've seen them, and Pathfinder spells are close enough to 3.5 to be worth it.

Yes, Paizo sells spell decks. There are also numerous apps; I have one that is even updated through the Occult classes.

[Stoic]

Here is an online Pathfinder Spell Card Generator.


http://www.thegm.org/perramsSpellbook.php

[leegi0n]

Probably not the right answer, but why not use 5e? Its super intuitive and way easier for the younger crowd to get into.

To be perfectly honest, because that's 3.0/3.5 is the edition that I'm most familiar with....that and AD&D (2nd). I'm not about to put that one on the kids. - LOL!

[leegi0n]

That's awesome. Thanks a lot, everyone.

[Captn_Flounder]

To be perfectly honest, because that's 3.0/3.5 is the edition that I'm most familiar with....that and AD&D (2nd). I'm not about to put that one on the kids. - LOL!

5e is SUPER easy if that's all that's holding you back. Me and my group tried it for a couple weeks, it just lacks all the details and customization of 3.5, which will be probably lost on a younger crowd anyways. In 5e, had my wife (only RPG she has played is Skyrim for about 25 hours) and my daughter (8 years old but is my DM sounding board, little prodigy) both jump right in at different times and take over NPCs, caught on instantly, and had a blast as a Cleric and a Rogue, respectively.

Luckily, I got to start with AD&D 1e, which is simplicity at it's finest, as opposed to 3.5, which could be accurately renamed "Math: The Game". 10 minute Character creation for the win!

I do recommend giving it a glance.

[Arael666]

Just make your own (https://crobi.github.io/rpg-cards/generator/generate.html) cards it's cheap, easy and customizable to your hearts content.

[Crake]

5e is SUPER easy if that's all that's holding you back. Me and my group tried it for a couple weeks, it just lacks all the details and customization of 3.5, which will be probably lost on a younger crowd anyways. In 5e, had my wife (only RPG she has played is Skyrim for about 25 hours) and my daughter (8 years old but is my DM sounding board, little prodigy) both jump right in at different times and take over NPCs, caught on instantly, and had a blast as a Cleric and a Rogue, respectively.

Luckily, I got to start with AD&D 1e, which is simplicity at it's finest, as opposed to 3.5, which could be accurately renamed "Math: The Game". 10 minute Character creation for the win!

I do recommend giving it a glance.

I gotta back up this sentiment. 5e basically feels like "babbys first 3.5". Things are similar enough that it shouldn't be hard to pick up for you as an experienced player, and those that enjoy it and stick to it can easily be converted (or "upgraded" as I would say) to 3.5 later down the line when they start wanting to expand their character ideas beyond the 12 or so character options available in 5e.

[Yahzi]

You touch a willing creature
Mage Armor is touch now? As if I needed any more reasons to hate 5E...

Remove Disease is 2nd level, unless you are a Paladin where you get it at level 1.

:smallfurious:

(Edit: I still agree with everybody else - if you have newbies, start 'em on 5E. It's just so much easier.)

[Fizban]

Uh, Mage Armor has been touch since 3.0 at least.

As for switching to 5e- eh. If you want to run 3.5 with this group, then you should start on it now. 5e is indeed much easier, and has many significantly different design principles, both of which will only cause problems if you try to switch them to 3.5 later. If you want a less "omg 3.5 optimize balance madness waaah" game, all you have to do is not do that. And if someone goes online and gets infected you purge as necessary.

[NomGarret]

I’d echo the “make your own” sentiment. The biggest boon of spell cards is to plot out as much math pregame as possible. This way you can just right in “DC 15 Will save” or “1D20+4 vs touch AC” rather than referencing the sheet every time.

If the group is trying prepared casters, consider tokens they place on the spells. Do you want two chips on color spray, or one on color spray and the other on feather fall? Not that I necessarily recommend prepared casters, but hopefully this would help. In fact, consider whether a class like warlock or Dragonfire adept might work, if what they’re looking for is “magic.”

[leegi0n]

Uh, Mage Armor has been touch since 3.0 at least.

As for switching to 5e- eh. If you want to run 3.5 with this group, then you should start on it now. 5e is indeed much easier, and has many significantly different design principles, both of which will only cause problems if you try to switch them to 3.5 later. If you want a less "omg 3.5 optimize balance madness waaah" game, all you have to do is not do that. And if someone goes online and gets infected you purge as necessary.

Yeah, that was kinda my plan. I'm only allowing them a few class options...and all human. It's a core only rule-set too (very loose homebrew). I mean, mainly they have their players handbooks to read about abilities, feats, skills, combat mech., equipment, and spells. Since they're babies, I'm being rather lenient and treating the player's handbook as a comfortable guide, rather than an absolute rulebook. I broke out the battle mat and minis for this game too. Normally, I don't use more than a big dry erase board.

So far so good. I think I'll just slowly heat the water for them...and try to keep them off the 'net about it.