Alignments of Classic Rock

[the_brazenburn]

What do you think are the alignments of some of the classic rock bands? I'm especially looking at the Beatles (NG), Led Zeppelin (N), the Stones (N), Black Sabbath (CE), AC/DC (CN) and the Who (CN).

This is just a joke, by the way. If I accidentally offended one of your favorites, please alert me respectfully.

[nickl_2000]

KC and the Sunshine band and Chicago is LG (although KC probably isn't classic rock...)

[KorvinStarmast]

What do you think are the alignments of some of the classic rock bands? I'm especially looking at the Beatles (NG), Led Zeppelin (N), the Stones (N), Black Sabbath (CE), AC/DC (CN) and the Who (CN).
Frank Zappa: Chaotic Good
Rolling Stones: Neutral Evil -> Lawful Evil (Jagger was semi-legendary in the 70's for extorting money out of concert promoters, and FFS, Sympathy for the Devil, Midnight Rambler ... Evil)
The Who: Chaotic Neutral -> Chaotic Good(Keith Moon added extra chaos while alive)
Led Zepplin: Neutral Stoned
Beatles: Neutral
Black Sabbath: Lawful Evil (Ozzy went chaotic stoned on his solo sojurn)
AC/DC: Chaotic Neutral
Cream: Chaotic
Steppenwolf: Chaotic Neutral

[UrielAwakened]

This is such a weird question.

[nickl_2000]

Where do Boston and Journey end up? How about Billy Joel, Elton John, and Bryan Adams?

Do Genesis and Phil Collins have a different alignment due the "character growth"?

[the_brazenburn]

This is such a weird question.

I'm asking here because I couldn't find anything online.

[KorvinStarmast]

Where do Boston and Journey end up? Lame, they don't belong in the list.

How about Billy Joel, Elton John, and Bryan Adams?Not classic rock. Pop music? Yeah, they did the deed and did it well. Likewise Seals and Croft, Fleetwood Mac, and Loggins and Messina.

Do Genesis and Phil Collins have a different alignment due the "character growth"? Genesis was progressive rock, at best. They belong in a different multiverse, as do the pop stars.

Here's one who bridged between classic rock and progressive rock -

Yes. Neutral Good, but still tripping on blotter.

[nickl_2000]

I'm asking here because I couldn't find anything online.

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have finally reached the limit of what Google can find.

[UrielAwakened]

I'm asking here because I couldn't find anything online.

...why would there be anything for this online?

Like, I would wager 90% or more of normal people are Neutral, leaning either Lawful or Chaotic Neutral a bit.

Very very few people are actually Evil or Good in D&D terms. Doing so requires either going out of your way to help out people you don't even know, regularly, or else to trample all over them.

The vast majority of regular people just keep to themselves and maybe help out their friends and family. Decidedly neutral.


Lame, they don't belong in the list.

What? Wrong. Steve Perry and Brad Delp are two of the best vocalists in rock history and they are absolutely big parts of 70s rock history. Boston and Escape are two of the most successful rock albums of the 70s.


Not classic rock. Pop music? Yeah, they did the deed and did it well. Likewise Seals and Croft, Fleetwood Mac, and Loggins and Messina.

Absolutely wrong. Billy Joel and Elton John are the quintessential rock pianists, along with Stevie Wonder.

[the_brazenburn]

Like, I would wager 90% or more of normal people are Neutral, leaning either Lawful or Chaotic Neutral a bit.

Very very few people are actually Evil or Good in D&D terms. Doing so requires either going out of your way to help out people you don't even know, regularly, or else to trample all over them.

The vast majority of regular people just keep to themselves and maybe help out their friends and family. Decidedly neutral.

Yes, but we are talking about bands here, not people. Each band has its own ideology and message that relates to a D&D alignment.

There are also hundreds of D&D alignment matrices for even weirder stuff; why not for this?

[UrielAwakened]

Yes, but we are talking about bands here, not people. Each band has its own ideology and message that relates to a D&D alignment.

There are also hundreds of D&D alignment matrices for even weirder stuff; why not for this?

I mean I don't know what message or ideology you think these bands stood for.

Most songs are about love. Even in rock. That's sort of an alignment-neutral message.

Some songs are political. Those can either be chaotic from the perspective that nations go to war so war is a lawful thing or lawful if you think that violence equates chaos. Or you could just chalk those up to neutral as well.

[the_brazenburn]

Like, I would wager 90% or more of normal people are Neutral, leaning either Lawful or Chaotic Neutral a bit.

Very very few people are actually Evil or Good in D&D terms. Doing so requires either going out of your way to help out people you don't even know, regularly, or else to trample all over them.

The vast majority of regular people just keep to themselves and maybe help out their friends and family. Decidedly neutral.

At least in classic rock, many songs are different from love. The Beatles/John Lennon solo had a lot of peace songs, which are pretty clearly good in alignment. Led Zeppelin love songs are more about plain lust, which is neutral. Sabbath had satanic/disorganized songs that betray an evil message. The Who's Won't Get Fooled Again is all about how the government is corrupt no matter what form it takes, which is the very definition of Chaos. I could go on and on.

[KorvinStarmast]

Wrong. Steve Perry and Brad Delp
Squealed into microphones, and annoyed people by doing so for years. Journey was the beginning of formula rock. Boston was over produced. Sorry, they don't meet the quality standard.
Billy Joel and Elton John are the quintessential rock pianists, along with Stevie Wonder. Great pianists. Stevie Wonder never wanted to be a classic rock star, so he wasn't. Billy Joel is a top 40 artist, not classic rock. Elton John was a piano player and a singer; and quite good. He ain't classic rock. (Though you could argue that Saturday Night's Alright for Fighting was a step in that direction).

[Scripten]

It seems a bit unfair to classify what amount to protest songs as evil because of their subject matter. If anything, Black Sabbath would be a chaotic good/neutral paladin, IMO.

[UrielAwakened]

At least in classic rock, many songs are different from love. The Beatles/John Lennon solo had a lot of peace songs, which are pretty clearly good in alignment. Led Zeppelin love songs are more about plain lust, which is neutral. Sabbath had satanic/disorganized songs that betray an evil message. The Who's Won't Get Fooled Again is all about how the government is corrupt no matter what form it takes, which is the very definition of Chaos. I could go on and on.


All of those bands aside from maybe Black Sabbath had an overwhelmingly large catalog that was just a lot of love songs that were dressed up a bit.

Led Zeppelin alone:

Led Zeppelin I: 8/9 songs are about love or women. 1 song is instrumental.
Led Zeppelin II: 8/9 songs again, 1 song being instrumental.
Led Zeppelin III: 4/10, much better ratio as Zeppelin got away from their roots a bit and get into some storytelling with their lyrics.
Led Zeppelin IV: Similarly, 4/8.
Houses of the Holy: 4/8

I could go on but I think I've made my point. The reason for this is obvious: Rock is heavily based on blues and blues is heavily based on heartbreak. You'll see this pattern across any rock band. The messages are not that diverse.

The other message you'll see is political. Usually anti-government, anti-war. Bands like Black Sabbath or artists like Bob Dylan are better examples of this. Still, it's a rather alignment-neutral message either way.


Squealed into microphones, and annoyed people by doing so for years. Journey was the beginning of formula rock. Boston was over produced. Sorry, they don't meet the quality standard. Great pianists. Stevie Wonder never wanted to be a classic rock star, so he wasn't. Billy Joel is a top 40 artist, not classic rock. Elton John was a piano player and a singer; and quite good. He ain't classic rock. (Though you could argue that Saturday Night's Alright for Fighting was a step in that direction).

Regardless of what you may think, Brad Delp and Steve Perry are wildly considered two of the best vocalists in rock history. Their ranges, power, and control over their head voices overshadow pretty much anybody. They only really lose points on versatility. You can not enjoy listening to tenors if you want but most people think it's impressive.

Billy Joel is a rock artist, that is a fact. As is Elton John.

[the_brazenburn]

Didn't you hear what I said? Love songs can vary in alignment depending on the message behind them. There's no such thing as a generic love song. Black Dog, for instance, varies strongly from Going to California. They're both from the same album, so imagine how different love songs from different artists would be. And in terms of politics, Revolution is very different from the aforementioned Won't Get Fooled Again. One is a NG song about how they won't condone violent revolt against the authority, the other is CN and talks about the devastating aftermath of a brutal overthrowing of the government.

[UrielAwakened]

Didn't you hear what I said? Love songs can vary in alignment depending on the message behind them. There's no such thing as a generic love song. Black Dog, for instance, varies strongly from Going to California. They're both from the same album, so imagine how different love songs from different artists would be. And in terms of politics, Revolution is very different from the aforementioned Won't Get Fooled Again. One is a NG song about how they won't condone violent revolt against the authority, the other is CN and talks about the devastating aftermath of a brutal overthrowing of the government.

Lust is no different than love, alignment-wise. The reason being that only actions confer alignment. Not thoughts, or emotions.

This question doesn't really have a basis. The bands wouldn't have an alignment that differs from the people in said band, and as I said, people are pretty much just neutral.

Songs don't have alignments because songs aren't things capable of actions.

You can't add a bunch of things that are neutral all together and get something that isn't neutral.

[alchahest]

I think we can agree that Dio was epic level and he only left us because there were bigger dragons to slay in other planes right?

[UrielAwakened]

I think we can agree that Dio was epic level and he only left us because there were bigger dragons to slay in other planes right?

Obviously.

[the_brazenburn]

This question doesn't really have a basis.

All right, so that's your opinion. If you don't like the question, get off this thread and leave it to the people who care.

[UrielAwakened]

All right, so that's your opinion. If you don't like the question, get off this thread and leave it to the people who care.

Maybe there's a reason you couldn't find anything when you tried to google this.

[the_brazenburn]

There is a reason. It's a specialized question that's best left directly asking people's opinions, rather than praying that somebody else has cared enough to post on it. Please stop trolling.

[Finieous]

Lame, they don't belong in the list.
Not classic rock. Pop music? Yeah, they did the deed and did it well. Likewise Seals and Croft, Fleetwood Mac, and Loggins and Messina.
Genesis was progressive rock, at best. They belong in a different multiverse, as do the pop stars.


"Classic rock" is a radio format, not a genre. The format primarily drew on hard rock from the 70s but included genres such as stadium rock (Journey, Boston) and prog rock (70s Genesis, Pink Floyd, etc.). I mean, the OP includes everything from the Beatles to Black Sabbath, so let's not get too picky...

[UrielAwakened]

There is a reason. It's a specialized question that's best left directly asking people's opinions, rather than praying that somebody else has cared enough to post on it. Please stop trolling.

I'm not trolling, I'm trying to help you understand what alignments are.


"Classic rock" is a radio format, not a genre. The format primarily drew on hard rock from the 70s but included genres such as stadium rock (Journey, Boston) and prog rock (70s Genesis, Pink Floyd, etc.). I mean, the OP includes everything from the Beatles to Black Sabbath, so let's not get too picky...

Also at this point everything through the 2000s shows up on classic rock stations anyway.

[alchahest]

"Classic rock" is a radio format, not a genre. The format primarily drew on hard rock from the 70s but included genres such as stadium rock (Journey, Boston) and prog rock (70s Genesis, Pink Floyd, etc.). I mean, the OP includes everything from the Beatles to Black Sabbath, so let's not get too picky...

Agreed. get outta here with this gatekeepery BS! rock and roll is broad and deep and classic just means it's over a certain age (ill defined but generally 15-20 years or older)

[the_brazenburn]

I'm not trolling, I'm trying to help you understand what alignments are.

In D&D, alignments are natural forces. In the real world, alignments are more mutable. This is why I am asking people, because there are different viewpoints as to what alignment is in a complicated universe like ours. If your opinion is that everyone is Neutral, then state that opinion without questioning the integrity of the question.

[Finieous]

Agreed. get outta here with this gatekeepery BS! rock and roll is broad and deep and classic just means it's over a certain age (ill defined but generally 15-20 years or older)

538 has data!

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-classic-rock-isnt-what-it-used-to-be/

Kinda interesting how it's so regional. You get Billy Joel in New York and Miami (South NY) and you get Bryan Adams in the Midwest.

[smcmike]

I'm not trolling, I'm trying to help you understand what alignments are.

I don’t think anyone meant this question seriously, so your pedantry is out of place.


The best rock is CN. If it doesn’t upset some previous order, it doesn’t really rock, so it has to be chaotic, and concerns about good and evil get in the way of art.

The Ramones are the perfect rock band.

[the_brazenburn]

Obviously.

Hey, this is the first time we've agreed on something!

[alchahest]

I don’t think anyone meant this question seriously, so your pedantry is out of place.


The best rock is CN. If it doesn’t upset some previous order, it doesn’t really rock, so it has to be chaotic, and concerns about good and evil get in the way of art.

The Ramones are the perfect rock band.

While I tend to agree re: the perfectness of the Ramones, they were actually pretty lawful, Jonny ran the band like a drill sargeant and they practiced everything from poses to how they move on stage, wore uniforms (including haircuts) and even changed their names to fall in line as a unified group (drummer rotation notwithstanding)

[smcmike]

While I tend to agree re: the perfectness of the Ramones, they were actually pretty lawful, Jonny ran the band like a drill sargeant and they practiced everything from poses to how they move on stage, wore uniforms (including haircuts) and even changed their names to fall in line as a unified group (drummer rotation notwithstanding)

Yeah, punk in general had a weird law/chaos dynamic. While the message is often about defying authority, the internal culture could be extraordinarily strict. You can see the same sort of things in radical politics, even anarchism, which can be very dogmatic. I focused on the message for this exercise.

[JakOfAllTirades]

Where do Boston and Journey end up? How about Billy Joel, Elton John, and Bryan Adams?

Do Genesis and Phil Collins have a different alignment due the "character growth"?


Lame, they don't belong in the list.
Not classic rock. Pop music? Yeah, they did the deed and did it well. Likewise Seals and Croft, Fleetwood Mac, and Loggins and Messina.
Genesis was progressive rock, at best. They belong in a different multiverse, as do the pop stars.

Here's one who bridged between classic rock and progressive rock -

Yes. Neutral Good, but still tripping on blotter.

As a former classic rock radio announcer, I can professionally certify that this is complete bollocks. :smallcool:

[2D8HP]

On "Rock" and Dungeons & Dragons

As youths both me and my little brother played D&D, and we gradually eased out of RPG's and into other "pop culture" music, he into "Metal" (Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Metallica, etc.) and me into "Punk Rock" (Avengers, Dead Kennedy's, Stiff Little Fingers, etc.), but there was a "Metal" band that I got albums of:

Motörhead

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/39/Mot%C3%B6rhead_-_Mot%C3%B6rhead_%281977%29.jpg/220px-Mot%C3%B6rhead_-_Mot%C3%B6rhead_%281977%29.jpg

As a youth I enjoyed announcing "the next song is Motorhead, by Motörhead from the album Motörhead! when I DJ'd at radio station KALX and Motörhead is linked to the D&D Alignment system through:

Hawkwind!

In a Dungeons & Dragons, Law/Chaos started out as the only axis of D&D alignment back in 1974.The literary antecedents of Law and Chaos were Poul Anderson (Three Hearts and Three Lions) and Michael Moorcock's Elric of Melinbourne, and at the beginning of 1975, Hawkwind recorded the album Warrior on the Edge of Time in collaboration with Michael Moorcock, loosely based on his Eternal Champion figure. However, during a North America tour in May, Lemmy was caught in possession of something crossing the border from the USA into Canada. And Lemmy was jailed, forcing the band to cancel some shows. Fed up with his erratic behaviour, the band fired the bass player Lemmy replacing him with their long-standing friend and former Pink Fairies guitarist Paul Rudolph. Lemmy then teamed up with another Pink Fairies guitarist, Larry Wallis, to form Motörhead, named after the last song he had written for Hawkwind.

*woo*

See the links?

You may notice that the logo of Motörhead is a wartiger of the nation of Pan Tang (http://stormbringer.wikia.com/wiki/Pan_Tang), who fought for Chaos in the Elric series (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elric_of_Melnibon%C3%A9) by Moorcock (there's also a band called Tygers of Pan Tang).

*Ahem*


Motörhead:

Sunrise, wrong side of another day,
Sky high and six thousand miles away,
Don't know how long I've been awake,
Wound up in an amazing state,
Can't get enough,
And you know it's righteous stuff,
Goes up like prices at Christmas,
Motorhead, you can call me Motorhead, alright

Brain dead, total amnesia,
Get some mental anesthesia,
Don't move, I'll shut the door and kill the lights,
And if I can't be wrong I could be right,
All good clean fun,
Have another stick of gum,
Man, you look better already,
Motorhead, remember me now Motorhead, alright

Fourth day, five day marathon,
We're moving like a parallelogram,
Don't move, I'll shut the door and kill the lights,
I guess I'll see you all on the ice,
I should be tired,
And all I am is wired,
Ain't felt this good for an hour,
Motorhead, remember me now, Motorhead alright

Songwriter: Ian Kilmister ("Lemmy")

Just so METAL!!!

Anyway a true rock "band" (whether they're Scotsmen or not) is on the side of Chaos.

:amused:

[KorvinStarmast]

As a former classic rock radio announcer you got paid to call any old thing "classic rock." Hey, if the pay check's there, do it. Understood.

Having grown up with the genre, I'll stand by what I said about both Boston and Journey. Overproduced for the former, and Formulaic for the latter.
Punk and new wave happened for a good damned reason.

On the other hand ... I tend to leave the Beatles in pop music than rock, but their output was so eclectic that it sometimes defied classification. I have all of their albums, and can still listen to them all even though Magical Mystery Tour and Yellow Submarine can be a trial.

Boston I can barely stand to hear one song of on the radio anymore. They got a lot of radio play for a few years. Journey peaked at Wheel in the Sky and never got any better.
I still listen to all of my Who collection. Why? Because the Who are classic.

At the end of the day De gustibus non est disputandum \

(In Perry's defense, he could hit and hold notes. No autotune needed).

[alchahest]

Having also grown up with the genre, I disagree with saying those classic rock acts are not classic rock. I get the need to feel like your preferred music is somehow a marginal, exclusive club, but it's silly to just wave off peoples' discussion because you feel that classic rock stations around the world have it wrong and you're somehow the arbiter of what their content is.

it's weird, man. what a weird hill to die on.

[2D8HP]

Most of my memories are dim of those years, but what was on my tapedeck, and what was on the turntable of my first and second DM's (they were brothers) during the years that I discovered and played the most Dungeons & Dragons is very clear:

1978 AC/DC (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uelFpaLNYNU)
Aligned with Chaos

1979 Devo (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6gi4Cn5i_Xs)
Aligned with Chaos

1980 The Tuff Darts (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Dro6Ysjd5RQhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AsXTt0M21C0)
Aligned with Chaos

1981 The Ramones (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J4P4ln781D0)
Aligned with Chaos

1982 Oingo-Boingo (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AsXTt0M21C0)
Aligned with Law

1983 Venom (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D5wUr4Lut4A)
Straight up in league with Evil.

[Bohandas]

Not really classic rock but still getting pretty old by this point,

GWAR- Chaotic Evil

[GlenSmash!]

I would definitely say Zep is Neutral.

What were they doing in the Darkest Depths of Mordor anyway? Seemingly just doing their own thing. Then Gollum and the Evil one slip away with a girl. A Good character will obviously go after them, but what does Zep do? Just ramble on.

[2D8HP]

I would definitely say Zep is Neutral.....

Absolutely.


The magic runes are writ in gold
To bring the balance back, bring it back.

[Aymon]

Let's bring in some other bands...

The Doors? CE
Blue Oyster cult? NE

[smcmike]

RIP, Fats Domino. LG?

[2D8HP]

RIP, Fats Domino. LG?

Same for Chuck Berry, judging by:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eAc_4G9UmnE

(Unless a boastful or resigned LE)

[KorvinStarmast]

Having also grown up with the genre,

Repeated for emphasis.
De gustibus non est disputandum

[JakOfAllTirades]

you got paid to call any old thing "classic rock." Hey, if the pay check's there, do it. Understood.

Having grown up with the genre...

<meaningless twaddle continues ad nauseum>




I didn't just "grow up with the genre" korvin. I spent four years in school learning the business, and trained several classes of up-and-coming DJ's myself. I've forgotten more about the history of rock and roll than you're ever going to know, and I learned some it first hand, from people who were actually there. I left the business in '91 because the Golden Age of FM radio was obviously over, with Clear Channel and the other big media companies taking over and homogenizing the sound of every station from coast to coast. The days of locally owned and operated classic rock stations was over; my day was over. But it was never "just a job" for me, so you can take that sentiment and shove it someplace unpleasant, sideways.

Now, I don't know who died and appointed you the Gatekeeper of Classic Rock... oh wait, that would be exactly nobody, and you obviously aren't remotely qualified for the position. Now I'm done talking to you about this, boy. Have fun acting like a condescending little know-it-all on my ignore list.

[Finieous]

At the end of the day De gustibus non est disputandum \


I mean, that "classic rock" is a programming format and not a genre or a quality stamp of approval isn't a matter of taste. It's just a fact. If you're using the dictionary meaning of "classic" to designate artists you think are of outstanding quality, that's fine. I probably share some of your tastes (a somewhat visceral dislike of Billy Joel and Bryan Adams, for example) and not others (stadium rock rocks, sometimes).

Still, if you're going to use "classic" in that sense, you probably shouldn't come in the thread and tell people "that's not classic rock." Just say you don't like it.

[alchahest]

Repeated for emphasis.
De gustibus non est disputandum

OK

I don't speak latin so I guess you're not really arguing to your audience here.

[2D8HP]

Did I just hear a cry of anguish like millions of turn-tables and 8 track tape players suddenly silenced?

Or perhaps you just want a working definition of "classic rock" supplied by me in all my EXTREME HUMILITY!

Well that's understandable given my WISDOM (also I'm just so damn humble).

My qualifications?

Well started in the mid 1980's (when I was a sophomore at Berkeley High School) I walked 3/4's of a mile to volunteer for the University of California at Berkeley's "college" radio station KALX, and I put the records back in alphabetical order (and I would listen to the albums and singles and occasionally DJ), which I did until the very early 1990's.

Yes it's possible that others may have more knowledge, but self-evidently they lack MY taste (and humility).

So to an eager world,

THIS IS "CLASSIC ROCK":


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=adbGT8Rg9OE
(Alignment: AWESOME GOOD)

THE LESS SOMETHING SOUNDS LIKE THAT THE LESS "CLASSIC" IT IS!!!

-Your welcome.

[the_brazenburn]

Can we stop arguing about what qualifies as classic rock? By that, any of the bands you've been debating (i.e. Boston, Journey, Billy Joel, etc.) are all fine if you can give me an alignment. Just no modern pop or hip-hop.

[2D8HP]

Since Billy Joel's "You may be right" was on the Chipmunk Punk album


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TLKMtUQkTE8

I'd say aligned with Chaos

[nickl_2000]

Since Billy Joel's "You may be right" was on the Chipmunk Punk album

I'd say aligned with Chaos

There is definitely no arguments with that. The squeaky voice of the chipmunks have spoken :)

[smcmike]

What about Johnny Cash?

He walks the line. That sounds Lawful.
He shot a man in Reno just to watch him die. That sounds Chaotic Evil.

Confusing!

[nickl_2000]

What about Johnny Cash?

He walks the line. That sounds Lawful.
He shot a man in Reno just to watch him die. That sounds Chaotic Evil.

Confusing!

he wore all black all the time, that screams either poser or evil (and I don't think Johnny Cash is a poser)

[2D8HP]

Johnny Cash?

He stays on the road for six days to adhere to the code, so clearly Lawful.

But he takes "little white pills" to do it, so Chaos?

Which is it? ALIGNMENT HAS FAILED!

WHAT CAN WE BELIEVE IN NOW?!!

[the_brazenburn]

Hard to blame Johnny Cash for any alignment confusement. After all, he was born with the name "Sue".

[JakOfAllTirades]

he wore all black all the time, that screams either poser or evil (and I don't think Johnny Cash is a poser)

We're talking about a guy who won the Country Music Association's Single of the Year with a Nine Inch Nails cover. At the age of 70.

Edited to add: he changed the lyrics; removing Trent Reznor's "crown of s**t" line and changing it "crown of thorns", and religious imagery featured heavily in the video. (which also won a lot of awards)

The B-side of the single now includes his cover of "Personal Jesus." So I'm gonna go with Chaotic Good for the Man In Black.

Oh, and he can wear whatever he wants.

[2D8HP]

So I'm gonna go with Chaotic Good for the Man In Black.

Oh, and he can wear whatever he wants.


He also did a cover of Neil Diamond's "Solitary Man" that actually sounded cool.

Think about that.

Whatever the Alignment, that's a CHA that's threw the roof!

[JakOfAllTirades]

He also did a cover of Neil Diamond's "Solitary Man" that actually sounded cool.

Think about that.

Whatever the Alignment, that's a CHA that's threw the roof!

I hadn't heard that one but I'll give it a listen.

Yeah, I think in total he did something like five CD's worth of covers towards the end. They were all over the place, which is one of the reasons I'm putting forth "chaotic" for his alignment.

My personal favorite was his version of Soundgarden's "Rusty Cage."

[the_brazenburn]

OK

I don't speak latin so I guess you're not really arguing to your audience here.

I believe it means something like "taste cannot be disputed"? :smallconfused:

[Joe the Rat]

I hadn't heard that one but I'll give it a listen.

Yeah, I think in total he did something like five CD's worth of covers towards the end. They were all over the place, which is one of the reasons I'm putting forth "chaotic" for his alignment.

My personal favorite was his version of Soundgarden's "Rusty Cage."
What are my favorite 90's songs?
The ones covered by Johnny Cash.

But on Alignment: He's got forces pulling him this way and that, but he walks the line. That's Neutral, as opposed to Lawful or Chaotic. And none of that Good/Evil nonsense, the Man in Black is clearly White Box.


Classic rock tends towards Chaotic (the alignment of youth) and Neutral (the alignment of mass-market palatability).

Bryan Adams is CN - Canadian Neutral.

Alvin and the Chipmunks are CCE incarnate: The sounds of Pandemonium.

[the_brazenburn]

Anybody have any ideas about Queen's alignment? I'm thinking NG.

[Eko]

Anybody have any ideas about Queen's alignment? I'm thinking NG.

I'd go with CG. Bohemian Rhapsody is one of the most chaotic songs I've ever heard, and it's their signature, most well-known sound.

[S_A_M I AM]

I'm not sure I know enough about classic rock to have a broad opinion (Slade for the true neutral slot.) but wouldn't Led Zeppelin be somewhere on the evil spectrum for the whole, stealing from blues musicians thing?

And Brazenburn? Queen would be chaotic, lots of different influences all mixing together, a very diverse set of different topics that they wrote about and something of an anti-establishment theme to their non-musical stuff.

[JakOfAllTirades]

I'm not sure I know enough about classic rock to have a broad opinion (Slade for the true neutral slot.) but wouldn't Led Zeppelin be somewhere on the evil spectrum for the whole, stealing from blues musicians thing?

And then there's the matter of their hotel room cleanups. :biggrin:

[Oramac]

Led Zepplin: Neutral Stoned

I lol'd. :D

[Mister_Squinty]

It seems a bit unfair to classify what amount to protest songs as evil because of their subject matter. If anything, Black Sabbath would be a chaotic good/neutral paladin, IMO.

Sabbath with Ronnie James Dio was definitely Chaotic Good.

[the_brazenburn]

Sabbath with Ronnie James Dio was definitely Chaotic Good.

Oh, yeah, no argument there. I meant Ozzy-era Sabbath (inferior to Dio-era anyway, IMHO).

[Mister_Squinty]

"Classic rock" is a radio format, not a genre. The format primarily drew on hard rock from the 70s but included genres such as stadium rock (Journey, Boston) and prog rock (70s Genesis, Pink Floyd, etc.). I mean, the OP includes everything from the Beatles to Black Sabbath, so let's not get too picky...

Agreed. Given the acts that have been inducted into the "Rock and Roll Hall of Fame", I would say at this point that the definition of "Rock" has been rendered meaningless.

I'm not saying that the RRHOF inductees aren't great musicians, but that musicians like Linda Ronstadt, Hank Williams, Grandmaster Flash, et. al. were never "rock and roll" artists of any kind.

[Mister_Squinty]

he wore all black all the time, that screams either poser or evil (and I don't think Johnny Cash is a poser)

Johnny Cash was all about fighting for the little guy. His concerts in San Quentin and other prisons were all about giving some hope and joy to the imprisoned. A lot of his later work was also very religion/forgiveness focussed.

I'd call him a NG Redemption Paladin.

[the_brazenburn]

What do you think are the alignments of some of the classic rock bands? I'm especially looking at the Beatles (NG), Led Zeppelin (N), the Stones (N), Black Sabbath (CE), AC/DC (CN) and the Who (CN).

This is just a joke, by the way. If I accidentally offended one of your favorites, please alert me respectfully.

Here are my reasonings:

Beatles: Obsessed with peace and love. Look at "All You Need is Love," and "We Can Work It Out" for confirmation. They never really took sides between order and chaos, however. Helter Skelter is chaotic, but it wasn't very good. Revolution tells the story of how they will not condone a violent anarchist revolt, and Taxman shows how upset they were with the greedy LE tax system.

Zeppelin: Most of their songs are about love (or, more accurately, lust). They didn't take sides with anybody: breaking the law with cannabis in "Misty Mountain Hop", but bemoaning the chaos in the wake of "When the Levee Breaks". They went into Mordor in "Ramble On", but in the same song, they simply ignored Sauron and Gollum's abduction of their girl. This is truly neutral.

Stones: Okay, an argument for evil could be made here, but I'm of the opinion that they are neutral. "Sympathy for the Devil" isn't an evil song, it only claims that the term "good" is relative. And "Get Off of My Cloud" is about them just wanting to be left alone.

Sabbath: This, by the way is a reference to the Ozzy era. Dio era is CG. All right, why are they CE? Their best song, "Iron Man", is about a hero who goes into the future, returns to save humanity, but is maimed in a "magnetic field" and abandoned by the people he tries to save. A good or even neutral character would feel sorry for themselves, but only an evil one would kill them all as vengeance. And that's exactly what Ozzy does. Oh well, too bad there.

AC/DC: This one is fairly self-explanatory. They aren't evil, just selfish. "Highway to Hell" is not about them becoming demon lords: they are sadly resigned to their fate. And "Back in Black" is about an escaped prisoner. Chaotic? Yes. Evil? Not really.

The Who: This one cannot be debated. The Who blew hotel rooms to bits, smashed expensive instruments, and invented the really, really hard rock genre. To analyze their songs, Won't Get Fooled Again is anti-government in any form and relates the story of a violent revolution's aftermath, and the chaos that accompanies it. The entire Quadrophenia album is about a schizophrenic teenager. The Who defines classic rock chaos.