Help me “figure out” the Druid

[jaappleton]

Let me be clear, I understand the Druid. I understand it’s purpose and what it does.

I love the Druid spell list. I like the class features.... mostly.

I like the idea of a Nature Mage, and Nature Cleric won’t work for what I’m trying to do.

So between the spell list, and the UA and Land Druid options, I have something that I want to build.

What I struggle with is Wild Shape. I have essentially no use for it.

But... am I not seeing the benefits? Am I not seeing how to use it properly? Are there things that I can do with it and I’m not seeing how good it is?

I wouldn’t be a Moon Druid so forget those ones.

But, I can use Wild Shape to turn into an Eagle at lv8 and scout the area, almost like Clairvoyance or Arcane Eye?

So, what else can I do with non-Moon Wild Shape? Let’s get creative, what do you got?

[mgshamster]

I use it to sneak, mostly. Transform into an animal and you can slip past most people, perfectly blend into the environment, listen in to conversations at camps or any wilderness setting, follow people without them realising you're intelligent, etc...

I've turned into snakes for hiding nearly perfectly and lying on branches overhearing enemies make plans. Birds to see long distance. A bat for echolocation while underground. Cat or dog for perfectly sneaking into and through a city or any settlement.

There's tons of reasons for turning into an animal.

I've pretty much never used it for combat.

[Eragon123]

Well badgers get a burrow speed. That’s good for escaping and can work in conjunction or in replacement of mold earth to make some fun traps.

Or picking an animal with good stealth and combining that with call lightning.

Turning into a cat, spider or horse to do some spying is always an option.


And really how well does the pirate captain know his parrot?

[MrStabby]

Mobility.

Beating a retreat as an owl when things get too tough.

Infiltrating a castle by squeezing under doors as a mouse

Burrowing and hiding in an inaccessible place

Even as a non moon druid (at higher levels obvs) it can be useful in a fight if you are underwater. Disadvantage on attacks, enemy resistant to fire damage and not being able to speak words of spells can often leave a druid sufficiently ineffective that being a big fish is actually useful.

Tracking. Advantage on scent can help, especially as you keep your mental stats.

[lunaticfringe]

Deception, Infiltration, Intelligence Gathering, Mobility, Escape, and a Damage Shield in a pinch. Until you can cast in beast form it can hinder combat if you aren't Moon. You don't have to use it. Why not create an Alt feature to replace it If it vexes you?

[jaappleton]

Deception, Infiltration, Intelligence Gathering, Mobility, Escape, and a Damage Shield in a pinch. Until you can cast in beast form it can hinder combat if you aren't Moon. You don't have to use it. Why not create an Alt feature to replace it If it vexes you?

I’ve considered an Alt Feature but I honestly have no idea where to begin. I’ve looked for some Homebrew ideas but couldn’t find any, though it has been some time since I looked.

Honestly, I’m not even sure what I’d want to replace it with. I’m more than willing to work with it, I’m just trying to find some inspiration. Typically I’m quite creative, but admittedly this one is vexing me a little, to be sure.

[Foxhound438]

pretty much agree with the above, it's really hard to make useful in combat. I will say that there are a couple of -serviceable- options for non-moon druids in combat, like crocodile and later octopus, but those aren't going to be -good-. they're there for a casting druid to use when you don't have anything useful to do with your action- you have a big concentration area spell in effect, and don't want to go down in exchange for getting one attack off. Better to just boost your total HP by taking 20-50 extra off of a beast form.

[pwykersotz]

Cranium Rat. CR 0 from Volo's. 30 feet of telepathy, immunity to emotion or thought reading or divination spells, and the ability to shed dim light for 4 feet as a bonus action. Pretty slick. Plus you qualify right away as it doesn't have a flying or swimming speed.

But yeah, like other people have said. Mobility, stealth, and infiltration are the names of the game. Plus it really helps travel when there's not enough horses if you can become a horse. Or turn into a mouse and ride in someone's pocket. Or just fly. Also, many beasts have great strength, it can be useful if there's a heavy obstacle in the way. It's like Batman's utility belt. Lots of tricks, even if it's not the best for combat in a non-Moon scenario.

[PhoenixPhyre]

I’ve considered an Alt Feature but I honestly have no idea where to begin. I’ve looked for some Homebrew ideas but couldn’t find any, though it has been some time since I looked.

Honestly, I’m not even sure what I’d want to replace it with. I’m more than willing to work with it, I’m just trying to find some inspiration. Typically I’m quite creative, but admittedly this one is vexing me a little, to be sure.

Since I always think of druids as spirit-talkers and the best fit for shamanism, maybe take a page from the 4e shaman and have a spirit companion that does auras/control (as opposed to the ranger's dps pet)?

[Foxhound438]

I’ve considered an Alt Feature but I honestly have no idea where to begin. I’ve looked for some Homebrew ideas but couldn’t find any, though it has been some time since I looked.

Honestly, I’m not even sure what I’d want to replace it with. I’m more than willing to work with it, I’m just trying to find some inspiration. Typically I’m quite creative, but admittedly this one is vexing me a little, to be sure.

one option might be "improved find familiar", allowing you to get a creature following the same rules, and then have it generally follow the warlock chain familiar rules for attacking.

But I would like to see some alternate to this feature, hopefully whatever expansion includes the "alternate features" that will make revised ranger a thing will have something for this too.

[Potato_Priest]

Our DM has been throwing out heavy damage splash abilities of late, so I've on mutiple occasions gotten a concentrations spell up (conjure animals or moonbeam in most cases) and then turned into an Ape for the bonus HP. Ape is the best choice since you can still conceivably wear your armor and wield your shield in that form.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Our DM has been throwing out heavy damage splash abilities of late, so I've on mutiple occasions gotten a concentrations spell up (conjure animals or moonbeam in most cases) and then turned into an Ape for the bonus HP. Ape is the best choice since you can still conceivably wear your armor and wield your shield in that form.

I was under the impression that you still have to make concentration checks in wildshape form. I'm assuming that the damage was spiky enough that you were more worried about incapacitation at 0 HP than about having to make a bunch of checks? Although the Ape probably has better CON than most druids, so that's a help as well.

[D.U.P.A.]

I’ve considered an Alt Feature but I honestly have no idea where to begin. I’ve looked for some Homebrew ideas but couldn’t find any, though it has been some time since I looked.

Honestly, I’m not even sure what I’d want to replace it with. I’m more than willing to work with it, I’m just trying to find some inspiration. Typically I’m quite creative, but admittedly this one is vexing me a little, to be sure.

As an alt feature you may lift no metal armor constraints, which makes you closer to Nature Clerics.

[lunaticfringe]

Well base Druid gets Wildshape @ 2, it improves at 4 & 8 so we need something that scales or features added at those levels at least.

Familiar/Animal Companion are iconic.

Pathfinder added Domain Options. You could rip directly from a few existing domains, something like Potent Cantrip would not be terrible. If I were going this route I would try for some Unique Features. Look at Elements, Seasons, or Specific Animals (Shaman Style) for potential.

Primeval Guardian Rangers turn into a freaking tree that can cast, certainly that could easily fit a Druid. Worth a look.

Invocations or something like them for Witchy feel, people use a similar shtick for Tattooed Monk brews.

Or Ditch Druid Completely. Geomancer Wizard College, Green Soul Sorcerer, Paladins that use the Druid list and Smite Lighting (heck Ancients scream this). Don't 'fix' the Druid, slap it's spells on a new Chasis with some Woodsy gimmicks.

[Potato_Priest]

I was under the impression that you still have to make concentration checks in wildshape form. I'm assuming that the damage was spiky enough that you were more worried about incapacitation at 0 HP than about having to make a bunch of checks? Although the Ape probably has better CON than most druids, so that's a help as well.

You do have to make concentration checks, but like you said I'm mostly worried about not dying. The kind of damage that I'd be anticipating in this scenario would also easily be enough to knock me out of wildshape on a hit, so my spell-casting wouldn't be impaired too terribly should I recieve a triple-fireball.

[KorvinStarmast]

I've got a circle of the land druid, swamp, whose default shape is a crocodile. Swimming speed is nice in a lot of situations, and until you get up in level, a croc can handle a few things here and there and will now and again be able to restrain an enemy for the others to demolish. )Too bad that DC can't go up with Druid level or something ...

[Vogie]

Some alternate options for a Druid to replace Wild Shape:

Swarm form - removes the combat aspect from the option, allowing you to focus on the utility - transform into a mist of bugs or spiders, then slowly scale up to bigger and bigger swarms of creatures. A swarm of flies could give a really slow dimension door ability, a swarm of locusts can allow you to eat up everything in the area as a self-heal, a swarm of spiders to scale walls or grapple someone with webbing, a murder of crows for scouting and a pseudo teleportation.

Gaea's Gifts - at GM discretion, you are given a new animal companion(s) whenever you go into a new area. This acts as a super-conjure Animals meets Find Familiar meets Find Steed.

Bestial Aspect - Instead of gaining the ability to transform to a variety of creatures, you choose just one. Depending on that creature, you passively gain access to various aspects of that animal (such as additional ability to grappling for an Octopus, strength for a Gorilla, dexterity for a cat, et cetera), in addition to the ability to wild shape into that animal, as per RAW Wild shape. You also can choose that your Conjure Animals spell can summon that type of animal instead of GM fiat OR gain a familiar of that animal. Here are some of the Pathfinder Animal domains (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/spellcastingClassOptions/druid.html) for reference

[lunaticfringe]

You could also do a sort of Druidic Avenger. Instead of Rage like in 3.5 you could do something more akin to Bladesong. Wrath of Nature, Nature's Fury, Stormcalling, Channeling, or whatever. Make it improve casting slightly, mobility, or survivability. Perhaps you get a level of exhaustion until 18.

[SharkForce]

i feel it is also important to point out that there is a difference between casting spells (which you cannot do in wildshape form) and concentrating on spells (which you totally can do).

so, for example, you can cast call lightning, turn into a squirrel (or a bird), and bring the thunder (and lightning) while your enemies don't even have any idea what might be causing those lightning bolts.

but yeah, as noted: mobility, stealth, utility. one other thing to note, depending on how your DM rules it, you may be able to use it to obtain poison (does it stay poisonous after you return to your original form?) as one other example. basically, just imagine what you could do if you had a nearly unlimited list of animal pets trained to do any trick imaginable... and you can do all of them, because you can take the form of any animal, and you're as smart as a human. you can wildshape into a snake and slither through the bars of a cage to get the keys. you can gain an incredible sense of smell and sniff out various things. you can eventually turn into giant flying creatures and carry your party around. you can climb up walls with ease, dig burrows to hide in, create sticky web traps (if stuff remains after transforming), craft basic structures out of wood and mud (beaver), you may even be able to create stone/concrete structures (there are no stats for a giant termite, but why couldn't there be giant termites?). you can become virtually immune to poison, fit through tiny cracks, roar loud enough to be heard a mile away, carry heavy burdens, and so on.

it basically lets you save spell slots that you might otherwise spend on utility. perhaps try watching some animorphs to get ideas?

[jaappleton]

but yeah, as noted: mobility, stealth, utility. one other thing to note, depending on how your DM rules it, you may be able to use it to obtain poison (does it stay poisonous after you return to your original form?) as one other example. basically, just imagine what you could do if you had a nearly unlimited list of animal pets trained to do any trick imaginable... and you can do all of them, because you can take the form of any animal, and you're as smart as a human. you can wildshape into a snake and slither through the bars of a cage to get the keys. you can gain an incredible sense of smell and sniff out various things. you can eventually turn into giant flying creatures and carry your party around. you can climb up walls with ease, dig burrows to hide in, create sticky web traps (if stuff remains after transforming), craft basic structures out of wood and mud (beaver), you may even be able to create stone/concrete structures (there are no stats for a giant termite, but why couldn't there be giant termites?). you can become virtually immune to poison, fit through tiny cracks, roar loud enough to be heard a mile away, carry heavy burdens, and so on.

it basically lets you save spell slots that you might otherwise spend on utility. perhaps try watching some animorphs to get ideas?

This is what I was curious about. Ideas on how to use Wild Shape for utility, really.

[Havelocke]

To add to the mobility and disguise, I had a druid turn into a harbor seal to sneak onto the docks, then dispatch a couple of guards. The rest of the party arrived by rowboat not long afterwards.

[Easy_Lee]

Wildshape is great. Even on a land druid, sometimes you just need some extra hit points because you know you're about to get hit.

Here are some sample uses:

The enemies are melee - buff a ranged ally then turn into a mount. Your ranger friend can ride you while pelting the enemy with arrows.
Concentrating on a spell and don't want to be interrupted - wildshape into a bird, fish, badger, mouse, or whatever is appropriate, then hide somewhere that you can't be hit.
Enemy in your face - shift into a bear to soak up the damage.
Need to stealth or climb - panther.
Need to drag or carry something heavy - war horse.

The ability has a ton of uses. It's not hard to find a use if you think about what would be beneficial in a given situation.

[DivisibleByZero]

Our DM has been throwing out heavy damage splash abilities of late, so I've on mutiple occasions gotten a concentrations spell up (conjure animals or moonbeam in most cases) and then turned into an Ape for the bonus HP. Ape is the best choice since you can still conceivably wear your armor and wield your shield in that form.

Up to the DM.


Using a magic item's properties might mean wearing
or wielding it. A magic item meant to be worn must be
donned in the intended fashion: boots go on the feet,
gloves on the hands, hats and helmets on the head, and
rings on the finger. Magic armor must be donned, a
shield strapped to the arm, a cloak fastened about the
shoulders. A weapon must be held in hand.
In most cases, a magic item that's meant to be worn
can fit a creature regardless of size or build. Many
magic garments are made to be easily adjustable, or the:
magically adjust themselves to the wearer.
Rare exceptions exist. If the story suggests a good
reason for an item to fit only creatures of a certain
size or shape, you can rule that it doesn't adjust. For
example, armor made by the drow might fit elves only.
Dwarves might make items usable only by dwarf-sized
and dwarf-shaped characters.
When a nonhumanoid tries to wear an item, use your
discretion as to whether the item functions as intended.
A ring placed on a tentacle might work, but a yuan-ti
with a snakelike tail instead of legs can't wear boots.
That's for magical stuff. Non-magical armor would almost certainly be useless, if not destroyed almost completely like the Hulk's shirt and pants, when you change into an ape.

[Easy_Lee]

Non-magical armor would almost certainly be useless, if not destroyed almost completely like the Hulk's shirt and pants, when you change into an ape.

Apes are actually medium sized. In theory, armor that fits a human would fit an ape.

[Ivor_The_Mad]

You can turn into a bug to hide or infiltrate cretan areas or turn into a fly to bug annoying party members.

[nickl_2000]

Apes are actually medium sized. In theory, armor that fits a human would fit an ape.

I think the fair answer here without it turning into an argument is that it's DMs call how it works. Check with the DM and they will tell you what happens.

[Easy_Lee]

I think the fair answer here without it turning into an argument is that it's DMs call how it works. Check with the DM and they will tell you what happens.

That's true, same with apes using items and weapons.

[DivisibleByZero]

I think the fair answer here without it turning into an argument is that it's DMs call how it works. Check with the DM and they will tell you what happens.
Correct. I lead with that, and then showed what the DMG said about magical wearable items, emboldened the relevant part about non-humanoids, and then gave my personal opinion.
He edited out the relevant parts of my response, and left only my opinion.

Up to the DM.


Using a magic item's properties might mean wearing
or wielding it. A magic item meant to be worn must be
donned in the intended fashion: boots go on the feet,
gloves on the hands, hats and helmets on the head, and
rings on the finger. Magic armor must be donned, a
shield strapped to the arm, a cloak fastened about the
shoulders. A weapon must be held in hand.
In most cases, a magic item that's meant to be worn
can fit a creature regardless of size or build. Many
magic garments are made to be easily adjustable, or the:
magically adjust themselves to the wearer.
Rare exceptions exist. If the story suggests a good
reason for an item to fit only creatures of a certain
size or shape, you can rule that it doesn't adjust. For
example, armor made by the drow might fit elves only.
Dwarves might make items usable only by dwarf-sized
and dwarf-shaped characters.
When a nonhumanoid tries to wear an item, use your
discretion as to whether the item functions as intended.
A ring placed on a tentacle might work, but a yuan-ti
with a snakelike tail instead of legs can't wear boots.
That's for magical stuff. Non-magical armor would almost certainly be useless, if not destroyed almost completely like the Hulk's shirt and pants, when you change into an ape.

[Beechgnome]

Horse + Enhance Ability: Strength + Longstrider to carry the entire rest of the party at ridiculous speed for an hour.

Rat + Pass Without Trace to jump on the Rogue's shoulder to help them infiltrate a place and steal something your animal form couldn't carry.

Badger to burrow beneath a wall to scout out the inside of a compound.

Panther + rope and grappling hook to climb a steep cliff, tie off the rope, and let it down for the rest of the party to climb up.

Spider to climb anything and everything and scout it out without light sources.

Wolf to roll your Survivalist skill to track prey at Advantage.

Cat to nonchalantly wander up to a group in a city to listen in on what they say.

Dog to be friendly and playful with someone so the Rogue can pick their pocket with Advantage - in a non-suspicious way.


...that's all at third level. I haven't even touched swimming or flying forms yet.

Once you get swimming, fog cloud plus giant crab to grapple blind opponents and keep them blind in the fog is fun.

Also fun: heat metal plus any tiny animal. With no saving throws, the only way to stop heat metal is break your concentration, but for them to do that, they have to realise you are the target.

As a side note, druids are more flavourful and fun if you take Magic Initiate: Wizard to get Find Familiar as a spell. Then you and the familiar can both be rats or birds or whatever. Great decoy.

[SharkForce]

to be fair, let's try this from the other perspective... imagine if you tried to wear clothes designed for a gorilla. also, imagine those clothes are completely rigid.

yes, the ape is the same size category. no, that doesn't mean they're remotely the same size and shape. an elf and a dwarf are both medium, but if your elf tries to put on full plate made for a dwarf, it just isn't going to fit, nor would it work the other way around.

the gorilla's body is going to be much more stocky, probably shorter, have much longer arms and much shorter legs (which means that the joints are going to be in completely the wrong place), and completely different posture. realistically, there's no way a gorilla is going to wear armour made for a human and have it function. it might be a bit closer in some ways to go from dwarf to gorilla, given that dwarves are shorter and stockier than humans, but dwarves still don't hunch over and walk using all four limbs, don't have arms long enough to reach the ground, don't have legs as short as a gorilla, etc.

i mean, obviously, a DM can always rule otherwise. but realistically, you're going to either need 2 sets of armour, or 1 set of magical armour, if you want something that is going to fit both a gorilla and a typical demihuman.

[Potato_Priest]

i mean, obviously, a DM can always rule otherwise. but realistically, you're going to either need 2 sets of armour, or 1 set of magical armour, if you want something that is going to fit both a gorilla and a typical demihuman.

I don't think that a gorilla would be size category medium. Whenever I turn into an ape I always imagine an orangutan or chimpanzee.

[jaappleton]

I don't think that a gorilla would be size category medium. Whenever I turn into an ape I always imagine an orangutan or chimpanzee.

You mean when your character turns into an ape, right?

Otherwise, I have several questions.

[nickl_2000]

You mean when your character turns into an ape, right?

Otherwise, I have several questions.

Nope, the RAW reading is that HE turns into an ape.

[Deleted]

Let me be clear, I understand the Druid. I understand it’s purpose and what it does.

I love the Druid spell list. I like the class features.... mostly.

I like the idea of a Nature Mage, and Nature Cleric won’t work for what I’m trying to do.

So between the spell list, and the UA and Land Druid options, I have something that I want to build.

What I struggle with is Wild Shape. I have essentially no use for it.

But... am I not seeing the benefits? Am I not seeing how to use it properly? Are there things that I can do with it and I’m not seeing how good it is?

I wouldn’t be a Moon Druid so forget those ones.

But, I can use Wild Shape to turn into an Eagle at lv8 and scout the area, almost like Clairvoyance or Arcane Eye?

So, what else can I do with non-Moon Wild Shape? Let’s get creative, what do you got?

Honestly, I wish Wildshape was locked behind a subclass of the druid, the NPC druid doesn't even get wildshape. I'm not a fan of being forced to have the ability and I think the Druid could have had some neat class features if it didn't get locked into that class feature.

My favorite use of wildshape is for assassinations, getting people to owe you a favor, or random hey DM does this work bullcrap. Use roleplaying to your advantage with this feature.

1: Target has a child? As a cat you get "found" by the child. This also can work if the target has a wife or husband that would feed a cute kitten. Once everyone goes to sleep...

2: Here's a pet cat from (insert important person), take good care of it. Oh no! You lost the cat? Important Person is going to be mad! I'll help you look for it but you'll owe me...

3: Swarm of Rats taking down the party? Wildshape into a rat, become one with the swam, use your superior intelligence to direct the rat swarm away from the party. Disclaimer, don't do this if your DM plays rats intelligently.

[Easy_Lee]

Nope, the RAW reading is that HE turns into an ape.

IRL picture of Potato Priest:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c1/Beast_Boy.png

[lunaticfringe]

Huh I always pictured...

http://wp.production.patheos.com/blogs/freedhearts/files/2014/10/Potato-Head-Jesus-2.jpg

[Honest Tiefling]

Mule is good to drag a bunch of stuff from point A to B. Can also be used if there is livestock theft in the area, because who is going to suspect the mule!? Or if you need to steal herd animals, get a buddy to get some food and you lead them out of their enclosure as a mule.

The Rat, Mastiff and Cat are good to spy in urban environments, especially if you need to protect someone in said environment. The rat gets keen smell, which opens up a lot of possibilities. If you take a smaller form, I wonder if other characters can choose to throw you to get past traps and chasms.

At 8th level, the giant spider gets some interesting abilities if you don't mind butt jokes.

[SharkForce]

I don't think that a gorilla would be size category medium. Whenever I turn into an ape I always imagine an orangutan or chimpanzee.

*shrug* it's hard to say. certainly, a typical gorilla weighs considerably more than a typical human, but if you look at them they are not wildly different in size. the gorilla is much more bulky than a human, but they're a fair bit shorter, even if they're standing at their full height.

[Honest Tiefling]

*shrug* it's hard to say. certainly, a typical gorilla weighs considerably more than a typical human, but if you look at them they are not wildly different in size. the gorilla is much more bulky than a human, but they're a fair bit shorter, even if they're standing at their full height.

The question shouldn't be if the gorilla is equal in size to a human, but a Goliath or Orc. Those guys are still medium and not run of the mill like a human is. Gorillas aren't really bipedal animals, so their height while bipedal is about as useful as the full length of an anteater as opposed to their size when on all of their legs.

[DivisibleByZero]

*shrug* it's hard to say. certainly, a typical gorilla weighs considerably more than a typical human, but if you look at them they are not wildly different in size. the gorilla is much more bulky than a human, but they're a fair bit shorter, even if they're standing at their full height.

Wildly different shape? No.
Wildly different proportions? Absolutely.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/Ape_skeletons.png/510px-Ape_skeletons.png

This is what happens to your armor.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYB3Fx0a8-4

[SharkForce]

Wildly different shape? No.
Wildly different proportions? Absolutely.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/Ape_skeletons.png/510px-Ape_skeletons.png

This is what happens to your armor.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYB3Fx0a8-4

i already said the armour wouldn't work for that reason, dunno why you're quoting me there. that post was merely pointing out it's hard to properly categorize the size of a gorilla. in terms of mass, they're pretty big. they actually weigh a bit more than a goliath officially, but i'm fairly certain that's because goliaths are absurdly underweight, and the devs just picked arbitrary numbers instead of spending a few seconds with a calculator to discover that a creature ~1.33333333333 times the size of a typical human in all dimensions would weigh about 2.4 times as much instead of ~double or less.

[Easy_Lee]

If we're being fair, the same nonmagical armor shouldn't fit a dwarf, elf, and Goliath, yet it seems to according to the rules. Maybe they know something about armor making that we don't; unlike real medieval blacksmiths, FR blacksmiths have had thousands of years to perfect armor making.

[Deleted]

If we're being fair, the same nonmagical armor shouldn't fit a dwarf, elf, and Goliath, yet it seems to according to the rules. Maybe they know something about armor making that we don't; unlike real medieval blacksmiths, FR blacksmiths have had thousands of years to perfect armor making.

I get some of my pants from Costco and they are made of denim and some stretchy material mixed...

Something like that but with armor?

[DivisibleByZero]

i already said the armour wouldn't work for that reason, dunno why you're quoting me there.

I was quoting you because what I said was directly related to what you said. We were basically saying the same thing. I simply expanded on it.
dunno how you didn't get that.
Not everyone who quotes you is arguing with you.

[Honest Tiefling]

I get some of my pants from Costco and they are made of denim and some stretchy material mixed...

Something like that but with armor?

That's elastic, and unless you're doing some sort of 'after the end' type scenario, is a material that is far too advance for most medieval settings. As a DM, I would not be happy if you wanted modern fibers in a Greyhawk setting.

If you are REALLY determined to get armor, see if you can't get a magical item that'll fit most medium (or heck, small) sized primates. You'd think a druid would have done this by now. I believe the Sun Wukong could transform if you need a mythological basis for such an item.

[Vogie]

I get some of my pants from Costco and they are made of denim and some stretchy material mixed...

Something like that but with armor?

It'd be really setting-dependent on whether or not you'd be able to buy armor from a Costco

[Deleted]

That's elastic, and unless you're doing some sort of 'after the end' type scenario, is a material that is far too advance for most medieval settings. As a DM, I would not be happy if you wanted modern fibers in a Greyhawk setting.

If you are REALLY determined to get armor, see if you can't get a magical item that'll fit most medium (or heck, small) sized primates. You'd think a druid would have done this by now. I believe the Sun Wukong could transform if you need a mythological basis for such an item.


https://i.imgur.com/X6Gc7BI.gif


It'd be really setting-dependent on whether or not you'd be able to buy armor from a Costco

I'm sure Eberon or Spelljammer would have Costco!

[lunaticfringe]

https://i.imgur.com/X6Gc7BI.gif



I'm sure Eberon or Spelljammer would have Costco!

Idk they fly boats in space that still use Catapults. Not really as high tech as people imagine. Eberron definitely does because armor that changed shape with you was a thing in 3.5.

[Honest Tiefling]

Hey, in my defense I've gotten players who were upset that they couldn't get modern fashions in a medieval setting, such as the ever popular blue jeans. Tell your players that a certain trade good isn't available or is horribly expensive and you will never hear the end of it.

[War_lord]

Hey, in my defense I've gotten players who were upset that they couldn't get modern fashions in a medieval setting, such as the ever popular blue jeans. Tell your players that a certain trade good isn't available or is horribly expensive and you will never hear the end of it.

...I want to hear the story of the player who thought they could get Levi's in pseudo-Renaissance fantasyland.

[Honest Tiefling]

...I want to hear the story of the player who thought they could get Levi's in pseudo-Renaissance fantasyland.

It was a friend of a friend of a friend, so I don't have the details, but I think the gist of it was that the PC was described in a certain way...And the DM tried to point out that wasn't such a logical description. Cue pouting.

Back on topic, wouldn't the normal form of locomotion for a gorilla be impeded by a suit made for a bipedal animal?

[Braininthejar2]

A large animal shape can be used as a bridge or a ladder by the rest of the party.

[SharkForce]

Back on topic, wouldn't the normal form of locomotion for a gorilla be impeded by a suit made for a bipedal animal?

it's not bidedal vs semi-quadripedal that's the problem. actually, the arm armour would be comically short, and might not even reach the elbow. it's the leg armour that's the problem. apart from the fact that it would be like wearing stilts to wear a full human-sized leg, the armour would cover the knee joint with something solid. it would basically be like wearing splints. and stilts. at the same time. while also being forced into an uncomfortable posture that doesn't allow you to balance properly, and also, everything is waaaaay too tight. like, your blood cannot flow through your veins, and everything beyond where the armour starts is going to die, rot, and eventually fall off too tight, because a gorilla's body is about twice as thick in most places as a normal human, if not more, so to get it inside armour either the armour is destroyed or the limb/torso is destroyed.

so, yes... "impeded".

and then some.

[Chugger]

A large animal shape can be used as a bridge or a ladder by the rest of the party.

I like that.

A bird (lvl 8 on) or other flying beast can carry a rope with a loop on it up high and hook it onto a crenelation or branch or something so others can climb up. Same for a spider with a climb speed (at 4). If nec the druid can climb up and turn back into humanoid form to hammer in pitons and tie off the rope with hands.

A beast of burden can carry heavy stuff or pull a wagon if that's needed.

In bear form a druid can block a door as a meat wall - damage to it doesn't hurt the actual druid until knocked out of bear form.

Suppose an enemy is in jail and you can't get to him, but he needs to die. Turn into a raven and drop notes through the bars to the guy, notes claiming to be from an ally who is going to break him out soon - detailing how the prospect of escape is day by day getting closer - and of course he needs to eat the notes - which have a slow-acting-build-up poison on them. Okay that poison is not in the rules, but any consumable poison would work. Okay this is getting a bit wonky.... :D

A skunk! If you need a distraction - or to break up a party (when no one's looking drop behind the soda and go skunk form - spray the room from under the sofa - then escape).

A tracking dog. To trail someone or something.

An animal with really keen hearing to find something by sound or echolocation (bat).

A giant octopus is cr1 iirc so a land druid could eventually become one. Using one tentacle to carry U-shaped rods of metal, you swim out to a rowed galley and grab pairs of oars with free tentacles while using other tentacles to "twist" the u shaped metal rods like twist-ties around them. Oars are like levers and you have the long end. You should be able to get a number of pairs before they realize what is going on and react or try to stop you. I guess they'd eventually pull in the oars and find a way to get them off - so this would just slow down a galley. Might let a party escape - and if octo swim speed is not enough for the druid to catch up to the party - change into something faster. Or you could sabotage a ship's rudder or starboard somehow - on any ship. Cutting an anchor rope or line would be devastating - when a ship loses its anchor - a sailing ship - it's in huge trouble and can't go near land easily. If winds go against it, the ship has to go with the winds if it can't anchor. This may be what happened to a lot of Spanish Armada ships - Drake (iirc) hit them with a fire ship surprise attack while they were anchored off Holland. To keep from being burned up they had to cut their anchors and flee - took too long to haul up the anchors and doing so might have moved the ships towards the fire ships (ships the English sacrificed and set on fire aimed at the Spanish fleet). Later bad winds forced much of the Armada to go north, around Scotland, and down the west side of England near Ireland - where storms and reefs ravaged them. Many ships sank. Anchors are expensive and heavy. Most of these ships did not have backup anchors - or if they had 2 anchors both were, iirc, put into use to moor a ship. Anyway and octopus beak could chew through a rope underwater causing a ship to lose its anchor or anchors.

[MintyNinja]

My GM ran a game where we were all thieves of some sort or another. This was before Tabaxi, and so I created a Wood Elf Grassland Druid, who commonly turned into a Cat, Spider, or Horse. Land Druids make great intrigue characters for this reason, and are often overlooked in favour of Rogues.

[jaappleton]

My GM ran a game where we were all thieves of some sort or another. This was before Tabaxi, and so I created a Wood Elf Grassland Druid, who commonly turned into a Cat, Spider, or Horse. Land Druids make great intrigue characters for this reason, and are often overlooked in favour of Rogues.

This is actually kinda the idea I have for my character, but with a mage bend to it for when things get hairy.

Like if I'm escaping, casting Erupting Earth behind me to hurt foes and slow them down (since it makes difficult terrain).

[MintyNinja]

This is actually kinda the idea I have for my character, but with a mage bend to it for when things get hairy.

Like if I'm escaping, casting Erupting Earth behind me to hurt foes and slow them down (since it makes difficult terrain).

I literally used Silence, a pickaxe, and Mold Earth to complete a heist almost singlehandedly, after scouting it out as a spider. I just tried to think of Beast Shape as one more tool in my toolkit that helped me solve my problems (not having the other person's money).

[Potato_Priest]

For all those who are wondering, I usually only keep a breastplate on when turning into an ape (very conceivable with a chimpanzee). Everything else(save quarterstaff and shield) is allowed to merge into my ape form.

I love that potato, lunaticfringe.

Where'd you get the idea that I'm a goblin, lee?

[jaappleton]

For all those who are wondering, I usually only keep a breastplate on when turning into an ape (very conceivable with a chimpanzee). Everything else(save quarterstaff and shield) is allowed to merge into my ape form.

I love that potato, lunaticfringe.

Where'd you get the idea that I'm a goblin, lee?

That’s Beast Boy from Teen Titans. >_>