High level campaigns

[Necroscope]

I'm wondering what are everyone thoughts on doing high level campaigns. Those are what my party's players enjoy. Our first game lasted for over 6 years. We ended up between level 96-98 for the most part one member was a little lower.
Our current game has been going for just under 5 years, and we've just hit level 55.
Now take into account our games are homebrew. We have just about every 3.0 and 3.5 book that there is. along with some 4.0 material also. It meshes everything from nano-tech to mages, cyborgs to kitsune and just about everything in between. We have even created our our races, templates, classes and such. borrowed from anime, movies. It literally has everything in it.

[Malak'ai]

If it works for you and your group, tis all good... I just pity the poor bastard (or female version) that has to try and run a game like that.
I've run a short adventure where the party members for around the Lvl 29-31 mark and I had to spend about 60-70 hours (on top of a full time job (luckily I could work on it while at work as well) just to provide 3 encounters per 5 hour session for them.

Also at that level you might as well just send out the casters and leave those that rely on sharp pointy objects at home IMO.

[Quertus]

Do you have a campaign journal?

[Swaoeaeieu]

how do you even build a character for that high level?

[Pugwampy]

I'm wondering what are everyone thoughts on doing high level campaigns.

Low level DM and proud .

Too much pressure on DM , lots more admin for DM . This slow game slows down even more . I have never gone higher than level 13 . Players are pretty much gods at level 10 and my fave monsters are pretty much obsolete . Its all backwards , the wizards are the new warriors .

I am not against having a special 1 or 2 session Dragon encounter game where players make level 18 heroes and spend 100 000 gold on whatever they want but i wont commit to long term .

[Westhart]

High level campaigns can be a pain in the neck, set up time is much longer (not even an optimized game will still take a while... Don't even get me started on TO) and can turn into massive "I go first, I win"

As usual casters dominate, and I find that such games (when I run them at least) work better if you focus more on the social aspects instead of the combat... Alsohelps if you don't use most of the ELH to start with, as it is either overpowered or underpowered...

[Cosi]

I'm a fan of high level campaigns, though to an admittedly lower level than the OP. IMHO, there's a lot more variety in what you can do there. You can do (with some thought) most of what could be done at low levels, and also things like conquering the world or fighting various gods/demon lords/whatever.


Alsohelps if you don't use most of the ELH to start with, as it is either overpowered or underpowered...

I actually rather like many of the monsters in the ELH as enemies for (optimized) high level parties.

[Westhart]

I actually rather like many of the monsters in the ELH as enemies for (optimized) high level parties.

Ah, I was thinking of the feats :smallbiggrin:. I like quite a few of the monsters, and have a LeShay rework somewhere, along with noble houses for them... LeShay played a significant part in my last setting I ran :smallbiggrin:

[Necroscope]

Funny you mentioned Leshay. That is one of the things that we reworked into a playable version. Even added affinity with other Leshay into it.
And don't feel bad for our DM, he is the one that stated that he wants this campaign to reach at least level 100. Normally for the bosses he has some type of system in place where he multiplies the stats from the books by different formula for some of them but it makes it fun for everyone.
There are also a fair amount of social issues in our game.
For some of our battles sending the spell-casters in by themselves would get them killed since we do come across enemies that can completely null Divine level spells.
Our party consists of me fighter type, a spell-caster who also is kind of the mad scientist type creating monsters, and then there is our Strategist. Whom is also a melee fighter as well.
One thing that we worked up for the game came from that anime Hunter x Hunter. For those that have never watched it. There is a type of mystic energy called NEN that you can do just about anything with. From enhancing attacks to gaining more Damage Reduction. I'll post the document to here after I type this up to show you the class we made for it.
Regretfully I don't have a campaign journal. By the time we thought of it we were well into the current game.
About how to build a character for this type of campaign. We started off with Gestalt along with giving them some traits and flaws to take advantage of the extra feats and other things that you can get with them. For the few few levels we also were using scaling feats from both of the main dungeons and dragons wiki sites.

[Zombimode]

Necroscope: just you know, "high Level" usually means something like "Levels 13+"

Also, even with 6 years gaming, to reach Level 96 you would need 16(!) level-ups per year.

I mean, it's awesome that it works for you guy but I suspect that you don't pay too much attention to actual rules of the game.

[Necroscope]

No offense or anything but in our house level 13 is considered extremely low level.

[Necroscope]

Ok I think I got it figured out how to let you guys see that one class we made up

'https://onedrive.live.com/embed?cid=F84A551DEB80B20A&resid=F84A551DEB80B20A%215539&authkey=ANF9sOY7jfhhnWU&em=2&wdStartOn=1' width='476px' height='288px' frameborder='0'>This is an embedded <a target='_blank' href='https://office.com'>Microsoft Office</a> document, powered by <a target='_blank' href='https://office.com/webapps'>Office Online</a>.</iframe>"]

[Necroscope]

well guess not...freaking hate BBC code

[Zombimode]

No offense or anything but in our house level 13 is considered extremely low level.

I've gathered that much, but this is not how the game is presented. You just have to look at enemies, demographics, how leveling works etc.

Just to be clear: I'm not saying that you are doing something "wrong". Just that what you play is so far removed from D&D that we don't have a similar frame of reference here :smallsmile:

[Necroscope]

Necroscope: just you know, "high Level" usually means something like "Levels 13+"

Also, even with 6 years gaming, to reach Level 96 you would need 16(!) level-ups per year.

I mean, it's awesome that it works for you guy but I suspect that you don't pay too much attention to actual rules of the game.

Well we do play alot also. get a few hours in at the very least every day after I get home from work. Also on my days off that is pretty much all we actually do. Imagine 16 hour+ sessions on those days, if not longer. For the most part we do follow the core rules at least. But like I stated this is from a Homebrew game.

[Quertus]

Also, even with 6 years gaming, to reach Level 96 you would need 16(!) level-ups per year.

I mean, it's awesome that it works for you guy but I suspect that you don't pay too much attention to actual rules of the game.

Yeah, this is 3e we're taking about - if he was playing by the rules, he'd probably be leveling several times per session. :smalltongue:

[Westhart]

Funny you mentioned Leshay. That is one of the things that we reworked into a playable version. Even added affinity with other Leshay into it.

You should post it in the homebrew design (sub)forum :smalltongue:


And don't feel bad for our DM, he is the one that stated that he wants this campaign to reach at least level 100. Normally for the bosses he has some type of system in place where he multiplies the stats from the books by different formula for some of them but it makes it fun for everyone.

Huh, I'd Like to see that

For the few few levels we also were using scaling feats from both of the main dungeons and dragons wiki sites.
shudder

[martixy]

You know, I though above level 10 was considered high-level...

Me, I do enjoy high-level campaigns, but not that high-level. That's just... silly.

The one I'm running right now - we're at the beginning(just half a dozen sessions) but ideally I intend to take it to high-level. I like that heroic journey from pitiless scrubs to practical gods.

[Westhart]

You know, I though above level 10 was considered high-level...

Me, I do enjoy high-level campaigns, but not that high-level. That's just... silly.

The one I'm running right now - we're at the beginning(just half a dozen sessions) but ideally I intend to take it to high-level. I like that heroic journey from pitiless scrubs to practical gods.

I find high level games can be fun every once in a while, (and with sufficient houseruling). A low level game is always fun as well though. Although high levels + TO is too much for me :smallbiggrin:

[Bonzai]

The highest lvl I ever DM'ed to was 23. At that point things were getting ridiculously over powered. Either half the party would be dead the first round of combat, or the threat was neutered by the 3rd round. The party was extremely well optimized and covered each other's weaknesses extremely well. To be honest, it ended mostly because it felt like I had a hard time challenging them.

Otherwise most of our campaigns fizzle out around 15th level or sooner.

That being said, I am writing one that should delve into the low epics again.

[Blue Jay]

I find high level games can be fun every once in a while, (and with sufficient houseruling). A low level game is always fun as well though. Although high levels + TO is too much for me :smallbiggrin:

This has been bugging me for awhile now: what does "TO" stand for?

[Westhart]

This has been bugging me for awhile now: what does "TO" stand for?

Make the DM shoot herself when making NPC's Total Optimization

[Westhart]

Make the DM shoot herself when making NPC's Total Optimization

My bad, theoretical optimization :smallredface:

[bahamut920]

I'm wondering what are everyone thoughts on doing high level campaigns. Those are what my party's players enjoy. Our first game lasted for over 6 years. We ended up between level 96-98 for the most part one member was a little lower.
Our current game has been going for just under 5 years, and we've just hit level 55.
Now take into account our games are homebrew. We have just about every 3.0 and 3.5 book that there is. along with some 4.0 material also. It meshes everything from nano-tech to mages, cyborgs to kitsune and just about everything in between. We have even created our our races, templates, classes and such. borrowed from anime, movies. It literally has everything in it.
High-level campaigns are great. I've been in several campaigns that went well into epic levels and they were always fun. Level 98 might be overdoing it, though, especially in only 6 years; my current 3.5 campaign has been going on since just after the Tome of Battle dropped, and we recently hit Level 28. At the point you guys are at your feat lists probably have higher word counts than many novellas. I'd imagine most of them are just stat boosters (because you ran out of other stuff to take) and your stats are ridiculous.


I just pity the poor bastard (or female version)
Women can be bastards, too, y'know... :P


Ah, I was thinking of the feats :smallbiggrin:. I like quite a few of the monsters, and have a LeShay rework somewhere, along with noble houses for them... LeShay played a significant part in my last setting I ran :smallbiggrin:
Most of the vanilla ELH feats are super boring. Especially for anyone not a caster.


Yeah, this is 3e we're taking about - if he was playing by the rules, he'd probably be leveling several times per session. :smalltongue:
That's what happens when you have Game Genie on. :P


I like that heroic journey from pitiless scrubs to practical gods.
I find that some of my favorite characters were generally played from low to high level. Although some did start high.

[Westhart]

High-level campaigns are great. I've been in several campaigns that went well into epic levels and they were always fun. Level 98 might be overdoing it, though, especially in only 6 years; my current 3.5 campaign has been going on since just after the Tome of Battle dropped, and we recently hit Level 28. At the point you guys are at your feat lists probably have higher word counts than many novellas. I'd imagine most of them are just stat boosters (because you ran out of other stuff to take) and your stats are ridiculous.

Unless you use homebrew, then the horizons expand much more :smalltongue:



Most of the vanilla ELH feats are super boring. Especially for anyone not a caster.

Yeah, most could be non-epic, then the Epic spellcasting is hit or miss, depending on reductions and how big of a spellcraft bonus in magic items you scrape up...



I find that some of my favorite characters were generally played from low to high level. Although some did start high.
Yes, they can be fun, although those games that don't go epic, as well as those that start epic can still be fun.

[Arbane]

OP: Has your party ever had to fight exploding penguins who call everyone 'dood'? Just wondering. :smallbiggrin:

I've seen one account of an epic-level D&D game I think really deserved to be called 'epic': Tales of Wyre (https://leagueofimaginaryheroes.wordpress.com/2009/03/22/sepulchraves-tales-of-wyre/).

[Jormengand]

One of the adventure paths I wrote goes from 1-25, and another goes from 21-25. I've also played some hilariously high-level games with gestalt or similar rules applied and homebrew allowed, which encourages this kind of glorious nonsense (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=1322421).

[Westhart]

One of the adventure paths I wrote goes from 1-25, and another goes from 21-25. I've also played some hilariously high-level games with gestalt or similar rules applied and homebrew allowed, which encourages this kind of glorious nonsense (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=1322421).

[Looks]
Well, My buffer/healer/commander style character came out too close to yours... Back to the drawing board. XD

[Ualaa]

Back when AD&D 2nd edition was the only edition of the game, we used a book called 'High Level Campaigns'.
I ran one where we had the option of being a single classed level 30, two classes at 27th or three classes at 24th... or something along those lines.

The players naturally started off as (semi) friendly enemies in gladiator battles 1v1 to the death, with true resurrection afterwards for the loser.
Each character had three strikes, so two and you were still in the tournament but the third and you were eliminated.

It turned out that the host wanted an elite group for something, and didn't exactly ask if the group of champions wanted to enlist in his war...

It was also any alignment, so the group was predominantly evil, and I believe most of the kills/deaths were at the hands of other players.

Still interesting.

[Bonzai]

OP: Has your party ever had to fight exploding penguins who call everyone 'dood'? Just wondering. :smallbiggrin:

I've seen one account of an epic-level D&D game I think really deserved to be called 'epic': Tales of Wyre (https://leagueofimaginaryheroes.wordpress.com/2009/03/22/sepulchraves-tales-of-wyre/).

That one is a gem. Yet at the end it seemed to run into the same issue I did as a DM... in that it's REALLY hard to balance epic encounters. If things go south, half the party is dead before they can react. There is just too much power involved. At this point combat should become more rare and the campaign needs to evolve into more roll play and decision making over actual encounters.

[martixy]

One of the adventure paths I wrote goes from 1-25, and another goes from 21-25. I've also played some hilariously high-level games with gestalt or similar rules applied and homebrew allowed, which encourages this kind of glorious nonsense (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=1322421).

Without further explanations it really is nonsense.

I do think D&D can work reasonably well in the 100s modifiers, but not in the 1000s. I mean why even roll a die at that point - ±20 out of 1000 is negligible.

[Ualaa]

Our current campaign will likely continue for half a year, would be my guess.
And my next campaign is the Blight, which will be fairly massive and a lot of material to digest.

One of my players has decided on an in-between campaign.
It will start off at 5th level, with a level up each session.
Each level is a training scenario, with a major item (or a lesser item) depending on the success of the scenario.
At 20th level, we get to do the true mission, which will be a few sessions.

20th isn't necessarily that high of a level, but it is on the high end of the default Paizo stuff.
And when you throw in Mythic Rank 10 and Gestalt characters, it gets more on the end of high level, at least.



Pathfinder Paizo material, plus Spheres of Power (and splat books), Spheres of Might, Ultimate Psionics, Path of War and Path of War Expanded, and then the Mythic Hero's Handbook.
But everything needs to be Hero Lab legal, so if something hasn't been implemented then it's not available.
For casting classes, if there's an archetype for (Sphere) Wizard or (Sphere) Summoner, then it has to be taken, and lacking that archetype the caster is off of the table.

Our build rules are 25 point buy.
Either a base race, or templates/racial hit dice that are worth up to 4 levels in total, but that counts against both sides of the Gestalt and can never be bought off.

A couple of the players are thinking of builds...

Not sure if this would be considered "High Level", in the context of the rest of the thread...
But it is higher level than we've usually played, at least in recent years.