Tweaking Concentration and melee spellcasting

[ScaryTerry]

I have very mixed feelings about the Concentration mechanic in 5e. I think it’s a very elegant solution to the 3.x problem of casters buffing themselves until they were better fighters than the Fighters, and it brings back the sense that mages are particularly vulnerable in combat. However, I feel that in actual execution it somehow goes both too far and not far enough.

Let’s start with the “too far” part. Virtually all of the combat-oriented buff spells require Concentration, with the result that it’s difficult for a caster to truly specialize in buffing. This is a shame since a lot of players enjoy playing support casters and may find it boring that after they throw up their primary enhancement at the start of combat their main remaining options are blasting options.

Also, while I definitely see the dangers of buff-stacking I do think that a limited amount makes sense as an option for higher-level casters. It seems strange that even a 20th-level wizard can’t be simultaneously invisible and airborne without magic items.

But on the “not far enough” side, there are a lot of options available that can greatly diminish the risk of melee combat for a spellcaster. The Resilient (Concentration) and War Caster feats both greatly increase a caster’s odds of maintaining concentration when attacked, and ironically those feats are less costly for primary spellcasters than for the gish-type builds for which for which they’re intended (since gish characters are more MAD and suffer more from giving up an ASI).

I’m interested to know if others agree, and if so how you would fix these issues. I have some tentative ideas:
1. Casting any spell in melee provokes an opportunity attack (maybe soften this to “any spell with a casting time of one action or greater”). If the spellcaster is hit with an opportunity attack, they must make a Concentration saving throw or the spell fails and the caster does not expend a spell slot. Maybe include an option for the caster to voluntarily give up the spell in exchange for avoiding the damage. Obviously this change steps on the Mage Slayer feat, so I’d add something to that feat to replace it (not yet sure what).

2. Add the following feature to all gish classes/subclasses (Paladin, Ranger, Eldritch Knight, Valor Bard, etc.) that allows them to use a weapon as a spellcasting focus and to use their Bonus Action to avoid provoking opportunity attacks when casting a spell. This helps make the War Caster feat a little less mandatory.

3. Create a new feat called Support Caster: You may have more than one Concentration spell active as long as none of them target yourself or an unwilling creature. The number of additional spells you can Concentrate on is limited to half your Int modifier, rounded up. If you fail a Concentration save, all spells you are Concentrating on end.

4. As an alternative to Support Caster, add a rule that any caster can have a number of Concentration spells active equal to half their Proficiency bonus rounded down. Again, all active Concentration spells are lost if you fail a Concentration save.

5. Add a few additional enhancement spells that don’t require concentration and provide short-term bonuses to the target. Sort of like True Strike, only targeting others and not sucky. This way buffers have something to do with their actions in combat besides blasting and debuffing.

6. Remove the restriction that Eldritch Knights can only learn Evocation and Abjuration spells except at particular levels. This one is just a personal pet peeve, it seems silly to force them to take mostly damaging since as a primary melee character they’re better off dealing damage with their attacks.

So…what do the Playgrounders think of these ideas?

[Easy_Lee]

If you're primarily worried about support, I can tell you it's still possible this edition. You just need a different outlook.

For example, I pissed off a DM pretty badly by playing a halfling grassland druid and attaching myself to an archer player. Haste, longstrider, freedom of movement, and heals all from the safety of the other player's back - think Yoda riding on Luke's back in Star Wars Episode 5. The other player was untouchable and unstoppable moving freely and up to 240 feet per round, and I was attached. And if needed, I could use plant growth or faerie fire to screw up the enemies as well - faerie fire is concentration, but plant growth isn't and creates a wide area of double-difficult terrain.

Support doesn't just mean buffing your allies; it means enhancing their abilities and shoring up their weaknesses. Pick a friend, figure out what his biggest weaknesses are and what spells he would really like for you to cast on him, and play that character. That's how you support.

[ScaryTerry]

If you're primarily worried about support, I can tell you it's still possible this edition. You just need a different outlook.

For example, I pissed off a DM pretty badly by playing a halfling grassland druid and attaching myself to an archer player. Haste, longstrider, freedom of movement, and heals all from the safety of the other player's back - think Yoda riding on Luke's back in Star Wars Episode 5. The other player was untouchable and unstoppable moving freely and up to 240 feet per round, and I was attached. And if needed, I could use plant growth or faerie fire to screw up the enemies as well - faerie fire is concentration, but plant growth isn't and creates a wide area of double-difficult terrain.

Support doesn't just mean buffing your allies; it means enhancing their abilities and shoring up their weaknesses. Pick a friend, figure out what his biggest weaknesses are and what spells he would really like for you to cast on him, and play that character. That's how you support.

Thanks, that is all very helpful and it does give me some good ideas for playing support. I may be able to apply some of those ideas in my current game!

[Potato_Priest]

Another houserule that I've seen before is that when you use a buff on a party member, they have the option to concentrate on it instead of you.

[RickAsWritten]

This is what I think the arcane half-caster should be: melee and buffing. Make the main subclass feature allow you to concentrate on more than one spell for a number of rounds equal to double your proficiency bonus, or half your level(rounded down) plus your proficiency bonus.

[Emay Ecks]

1. Casting any spell in melee provokes an opportunity attack (maybe soften this to “any spell with a casting time of one action or greater”). If the spellcaster is hit with an opportunity attack, they must make a Concentration saving throw or the spell fails and the caster does not expend a spell slot. Maybe include an option for the caster to voluntarily give up the spell in exchange for avoiding the damage. Obviously this change steps on the Mage Slayer feat, so I’d add something to that feat to replace it (not yet sure what).


I don't like this change. There are many melee spells that this would make completely useless (vampiric touch, gfb, bb, bestow curse, etc). This also feels like it's hard to justify for in game world reasons. Why does waving my arms about shouting nonsense to produce fire provoke an opportunity attack, but drawing back a bow doesn't?


2. Add the following feature to all gish classes/subclasses (Paladin, Ranger, Eldritch Knight, Valor Bard, etc.) that allows them to use a weapon as a spellcasting focus and to use their Bonus Action to avoid provoking opportunity attacks when casting a spell. This helps make the War Caster feat a little less mandatory.


I don't like this change because it messes with the action economy. Being able to use your bonus action to cast (what I'm assuming are normal action spells) frees up a regular action to attack, making these gish classes much stronger. It also means the class can't use their bonus actions for what they originally would (EK taking second wind, bard giving inspiration, etc), and is instead deciding between a spell or a class feature. Having a weapon as a spell focus for gish classes is probably fine, but it kind of removes the whole point of having a spell focus besides saying wizards can't go sword and shield.


3. Create a new feat called Support Caster: You may have more than one Concentration spell active as long as none of them target yourself or an unwilling creature. The number of additional spells you can Concentrate on is limited to half your Int modifier, rounded up. If you fail a Concentration save, all spells you are Concentrating on end.

I like the intent behind this feat. I don't like that you can't target yourself with either concentration effect (I think being able to apply a single buff to yourself would be nice), although I can see why you might prevent it for balance reasons (I invisible myself, and then haste my allies). I think it shouldn't be based on intelligence, as it limits this feat to wizards. I would change it to a flat two, or to spellcasting modifier if you're feeling generous.


4. As an alternative to Support Caster, add a rule that any caster can have a number of Concentration spells active equal to half their Proficiency bonus rounded down. Again, all active Concentration spells are lost if you fail a Concentration save.

I think this just leads to horribly abusive scenarios. The first one that comes to my head is invisibility, haste. Next would probably be stacking several different smites onto one attack. The feat above had limitations, which is good. This is letting player


5. Add a few additional enhancement spells that don’t require concentration and provide short-term bonuses to the target. Sort of like True Strike, only targeting others and not sucky. This way buffers have something to do with their actions in combat besides blasting and debuffing.

That would be fantastic. I would love to see more buff cantrips, and I don't think they'd throw game balance out the window either. This is also a minor change, and is probably the best fix you've suggested.


6. Remove the restriction that Eldritch Knights can only learn Evocation and Abjuration spells except at particular levels. This one is just a personal pet peeve, it seems silly to force them to take mostly damaging since as a primary melee character they’re better off dealing damage with their attacks.

I don't have an issue with this one either. I think the restriction is mostly in place for identity reasons, not so much gameplay (as if you wanted you could just play fighter and put every third level in wizard).

[ScaryTerry]

Another houserule that I've seen before is that when you use a buff on a party member, they have the option to concentrate on it instead of you.

Yeah, I've seen that proposed before. My concern is that it might go too far the other way and make buffing overpowered, since now the responsibility for maintaining concentration is someone else's - most likely someone who has good AC and proficiency in Constitution saves. And it would mean the caster could buff the entire party and still have a powerful Concentration-based defensive spell on herself.

In general, I just like the feel of the spellcaster as someone who wields a great deal of power but is vulnerable to having that power disrupted if someone scores a hit on him. My understanding is that this is a big part of why magic didn't feel quite as overpowered in early editions of the game.

[ScaryTerry]

1. Casting any spell in melee provokes an opportunity attack (maybe soften this to “any spell with a casting time of one action or greater”). If the spellcaster is hit with an opportunity attack, they must make a Concentration saving throw or the spell fails and the caster does not expend a spell slot. Maybe include an option for the caster to voluntarily give up the spell in exchange for avoiding the damage. Obviously this change steps on the Mage Slayer feat, so I’d add something to that feat to replace it (not yet sure what).
I don't like this change. There are many melee spells that this would make completely useless (vampiric touch, gfb, bb, bestow curse, etc). This also feels like it's hard to justify for in game world reasons. Why does waving my arms about shouting nonsense to produce fire provoke an opportunity attack, but drawing back a bow doesn't?
I can see your point from a simulationist perspective although I don't think it's that hard to find a fluff-justification - something about how tapping into magic requires turning your focus away from the outside world, yada yada.

I hadn't thought about the impact on touch spells though; I agree that's a problem. I think it would make sense to include a specific exception for touch-range spells targeting the person you're in melee with, since these are spells specifically designed for this situation.


2. Add the following feature to all gish classes/subclasses (Paladin, Ranger, Eldritch Knight, Valor Bard, etc.) that allows them to use a weapon as a spellcasting focus and to use their Bonus Action to avoid provoking opportunity attacks when casting a spell. This helps make the War Caster feat a little less mandatory.
I don't like this change because it messes with the action economy. Being able to use your bonus action to cast (what I'm assuming are normal action spells) frees up a regular action to attack, making these gish classes much stronger. It also means the class can't use their bonus actions for what they originally would (EK taking second wind, bard giving inspiration, etc), and is instead deciding between a spell or a class feature.
Oops, should have been clearer with my wording - what I was envisioning was that they still use their action to cast the spell, and they spend the bonus action as well to prevent the possibility of having that spell disrupted. But I suppose that might be too much of a nerf. Maybe instead they could spend their reaction to dodge the spell-triggered AOO.


Having a weapon as a spell focus for gish classes is probably fine, but it kind of removes the whole point of having a spell focus besides saying wizards can't go sword and shield.
True, but in practice doesn't that restriction just mean that War Caster becomes a feat tax for anyone who wants to gish? It seems to me that almost everyone prefers to ignore non-GP material components for spells anyway, but some people (those who are not Clerics or Paladins) have to spend a feat to do this. I would also note that the College of Swords bard – gets this this ability in addition to full spell slot progression, so it hardly seems fair to deny it to half-casters like Rangers and Eldritch Knights. Maybe there’s a balance issue I’m not seeing though.


4. As an alternative to Support Caster, add a rule that any caster can have a number of Concentration spells active equal to half their Proficiency bonus rounded down. Again, all active Concentration spells are lost if you fail a Concentration save.
I think this just leads to horribly abusive scenarios. The first one that comes to my head is invisibility, haste. Next would probably be stacking several different smites onto one attack. The feat above had limitations, which is good.
Yeah, this is the one I had the most reservations about.


6. Remove the restriction that Eldritch Knights can only learn Evocation and Abjuration spells except at particular levels. This one is just a personal pet peeve, it seems silly to force them to take mostly damaging since as a primary melee character they’re better off dealing damage with their attacks.
I don't have an issue with this one either. I think the restriction is mostly in place for identity reasons, not so much gameplay (as if you wanted you could just play fighter and put every third level in wizard).
Hadn't thought about that possibility. That would mean a serious delay in getting other fighter features like extra attacks, though, right?

Thanks for your feedback, you raise some great points.