Grappling With Grappling

[DRD1812]

Lately I'm finding that new players seem to have a low tolerance for complexity. In a world of streamlined 5e combat, how do you introduce new players to the grappling rules?

Comic for illustrative purposes. (http://www.handbookofheroes.com/archives/comic/grappling-with-grappling)

[PhantasyPen]

Octopi and tentacles

[Psyren]

What system are you talking about? You mentioned 5e but I think you were just using that for illustrative purposes?

[Necroticplague]

By having a monster use it against the player. Grappling really isn't much more complex than tripping, for all it's weird reputation.

[Goaty14]

The flowcharts there are PF... (ik think because it references CMB)

Grappling is pretty simple: Do something that's listed, and resolve it with a grapple check.

[DRD1812]

What system are you talking about?

I'm more of a Pathfinder guy, but insofar as this is the D&D 3e/3.5e/d20 board, I sort of class them together in terms of complexity.

[Boggartbae]

CMD vs CMB made it pretty simple, so I would just explain that the grappler gets to roll, and if they get higher than their victims CMD, then neither party can move or do anything other that stab each other with small weapons.

Next turn, the grappler can attempt to pin down their opponent, at which point the victim can't do anything productive at all.

[Calthropstu]

CMD vs CMB made it pretty simple, so I would just explain that the grappler gets to roll, and if they get higher than their victims CMD, then neither party can move or do anything other that stab each other with small weapons.

Next turn, the grappler can attempt to pin down their opponent, at which point the victim can't do anything productive at all.

You think grappling is simple?
So person A is grappled by Person B. Along comes person C who grapples person B. Person D comes in and grapples person A. Person A tries to cast a spell.
What happens?

[Psyren]

I'm more of a Pathfinder guy, but insofar as this is the D&D 3e/3.5e/d20 board, I sort of class them together in terms of complexity.

1) Pathfinder is actually part of this subforum as well.
2) Grappling functions differently under all of these systems, so you really do have to be specific.

[InterstellarPro]

You think grappling is simple?
So person A is grappled by Person B. Along comes person C who grapples person B. Person D comes in and grapples person A. Person A tries to cast a spell.
What happens?

Does the spell have somatic components? If so, the spell fails. If it has no somatic components, does it have material components? Does person A have them in hand? If not, the spell fails. If the spell has no somatic components and any material components (if any) are in Person A's hand, then person A can cast the spell with a DC 10+spell level+Person B CMB concentration check followed by a DC 10+spell level+Person D CMB.

Seems fairly straightforward to me.

[Togo]

Does the spell have somatic components? If so, the spell fails. If it has no somatic components, does it have material components? Does person A have them in hand? If not, the spell fails. If the spell has no somatic components and any material components (if any) are in Person A's hand, then person A can cast the spell with a DC 10+spell level+Person B CMB concentration check followed by a DC 10+spell level+Person D CMB.

Seems fairly straightforward to me.


You think grappling is simple?
So person A is grappled by Person B. Along comes person C who grapples person B. Person D comes in and grapples person A. Person A tries to cast a spell.
What happens?
Person A is now grappling B and D
Person B is now grappling A, and C
Person C is now grappling B
Person D is now grappling A

You're grappling with the people who grappled you or whom you grappled.

The spell thing has already been covered.

[Calthropstu]

Person A is now grappling B and D
Person B is now grappling A, and C
Person C is now grappling B
Person D is now grappling A

You're grappling with the people who grappled you or whom you grappled.

The spell thing has already been covered.

Actually, no. Neither one of you are correct. D and C are both in control of the grapple, person A and B are grappled. Person B is grappling with A and C, but does not have control of either. Person D is the grappler for person A and recieves a + 2 bonus from the grapple with person B... so the DC is actually 10+D's CMB (NOT cmd) + spell level + 2. Only 1 check needs to be made.

[Psyren]

You think grappling is simple?
So person A is grappled by Person B. Along comes person C who grapples person B. Person D comes in and grapples person A. Person A tries to cast a spell.
What happens?

Assuming A can cast at all (e.g. Still Spell), B and D are the only ones grappling A, so one is the primary and the other is assisting. C is irrelevant.

[Boggartbae]

You think grappling is simple?
So person A is grappled by Person B. Along comes person C who grapples person B. Person D comes in and grapples person A. Person A tries to cast a spell.
What happens?

Ok, yes it's true that grappling can get really complicated if multiple people get involved, or a T-rex grabs multiple people at once thanks to Cleave, or if someone tries to cast a spell, BUT, if you're trying to teach new people about grappling, you should probably just not have any of those situations come up, if you think it will overwhelm them.

If they are playing a spell caster, and they want to use magic to escape, then just tell them which spells exactly they can use from their list. The list of spells with no Somatic Components is very small, and those that are useful in a grapple are even smaller, so the chance that they have anything to use should be small, too.

[Elkad]

And then F tries to stick B with a spear, at which point G gets frustrated because combat has basically stopped and throws flaming oil on the whole pile.