thecrimsondawn
2017-10-26, 04:25 PM
The concept is coming out quite well, but there are a lot of switch outs and what ifs, and I cant have them all. Would like some input on it as I am sure there is stuff I overlooked somewhere.
First off - the class to use.
Im kinda torn between Aegis, Stalker, Rajah, and Unchained Rogue.
Aegis is very powerful, but lacks any bonus feats, or feats related to class. They also only have access to 3 disciplines, making this a hard sell. Im thinking about dropping this off the list, but the reason it is here is due to its very simple method of gaining natural attacks, and the ability to both gain martial arts AND akashic powers
Stalker is on the list due to easy access to a large number of maneuvers, stalker arts that can be swapped for rogue talents (and thus, gain akashic related powers), and fcb's that provide extra stalker arts.
Rajah, rather the archetype Batal is on the list due to access to akashic veils, martial arts, fcb bonus feats, and its sheer fun to play. However, it does not feel like a very poison-ish class to play, nor do the servants really mesh with such a style.
Unchained Rogue is currently my top pick due to access once again to akashic content, path of war content, fcb bonus feats, rogue talents that are quite flexible, and most of, their INSANE debuffing ability right out the box. The downside is I feel this is pushing past the point of overkill as there is such a thing as too much.
Next are the feats and class features I am eyeing. I will put them into a sub category to prevent a massive wall of text.
You gain a +2 bonus to saving throw DCs when using maneuvers of the selected discipline. You also inflict an additional +2 points of damage when wielding associated weapons of the chosen discipline.
A +2 save DC on on all my Steel Serpent moves is a huge deal seeing how nearly everything I want to do will require a save. There is an additional +2 from using a discipline weapon too, so these will really add up.
Prerequisites: Quick Draw, two Mithral Current maneuvers known, two Steel Serpent maneuvers known.
Benefit: Whenever you use a Steel Serpent maneuver to deal ability score damage to a creature with vulnerability to silver, increase that ability score damage by 50%.
This one I am up in the air about. For Rogue, its super easy to get into, but beyond that, thats a whole lot of feats. Looking at the average ability damage I can pull off with SS sting and prana's, its looking like an average of 2, so this feat translates to an extra 2 ability damage on average when used together. It adds up, but if its worth it or not? That I am not quite sure yet.
Cursed creatures, diseased creatures, and creatures suffering from ability damage take a –2 penalty on saving throws against your maneuvers.
Very easy to get feat, and very easy to apply. I feel this, combined with the first one I linked will give me a solid 6 shift in my favor plus my ability mod (assume a 5 here). Few things will be able to make that save, much less make it several times per turn.
Benefit: Whenever you hit a creature with a Steel Serpent maneuver, that creature takes a –1 penalty on attack rolls and to their AC for two rounds. At character level 5th and at every five levels thereafter, this penalty increases by –1.
Again, I am up in the air about opting for this style feat over others for reasons I will define as they come up. This one is a pure easy to apply debuff that I can get as early as lv3. In order to apply my poison, I need to hit, and if I am hitting things, they will also try to hit back (if they survive). However the other 2 make me wonder if this is the best choice.
Benefit: As a swift action, you can expend a readied boost to treat opponents suffering from ability damage as flat-footed until the start of your next turn.
So a couple issues with this one. First, it eats my swift action. That means I cant use my boost to apply more poison. Second, later on I will be linking a veil that already makes them D-Dex, so this is kinda a worthless feat to me.
Benefit: Whenever you deal weapon damage to a creature suffering from ability score damage, that creature must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC = 10 + 1/2 your character level + your highest initiation modifier) or become nauseated for one round. Multiple uses of this effect do not stack, nor do they increase the duration.
I would not get this until level 13, and just as a quick reference, "Creatures with the nauseated condition experience stomach distress. Nauseated creatures are unable to attack, cast spells, concentrate on spells, or do anything else requiring attention. The only action such a character can take is a single move action per turn."
It is indeed powerful, and it would be easy to apply every turn. It is in effect an SoS move right down to the bone. Due to its wording tho, I do not know if they would also get the debuff from sicked as nauseated is a more severe version of sickened.
My other style feat option would perhaps be Mithral Current style, using a trait to key Preform off of INT or something like that. Honestly tho, of the two, SS style is more appealing, and I am not even sure I need or want Mithral Current since the only feat I need it for is worth a whole 2 ability damage.
A rogue who selects this talent gains Improved Dirty Trick as a bonus feat, even if she does not meet the prerequisites. At 6th level, she is treated as if she meets all the prerequisites for Greater Dirty Trick (although she must take the feat as normal). If she succeeds in giving her target the blinded condition, the target cannot remove the condition during the first round of blindness.
While this is a rogue talent and not quite a feat, it is the only one I really care about out the whole core rogue list. The inability to remove it on the first round is very nasty, and the ability to apply the blinded condition as an option is great for any debuff build. Picking up greater dirty trick and Dirty Trick Master, I open up my options for disabling someone if I choose not to desire to kill them. It also flows very well with this next feat....
Benefit: When you make an attack of opportunity, you can use take an attack action (such as vital strike) or attempt a combat maneuver (such as a bull rush, disarm or dirty trick) in place of your attack of opportunity. This feat does not allow you to move when it isn’t your turn.
I will need to take combat reflexes for this one, but depending on where this build goes, I either will need it anyway, or wont care about it at all. This feat will allow me to trip, provoke an AoO from the trip and use a dirty trick on the way down to blind or whatever I wish. This is a very optional feat tho as if I go this round, I am looking at being super fear starved.
I will be omitting all the feats for shaping veils and stuff like that since I will be linking the veils I am interested in in another sub topic.
When you use a natural attack to apply a sting or prana while in a chimera soul stance, you deal 2 additional ability damage to the same stat on the following round.
This is from the Lords of the Wild playtest, and is honestly one of the best feats, thanks to the stance I am required to be in. Since I do not plan to make another sub topic for stances, I will link the stance I am interested in right now. [Moon Hound Stance] - Gain a bite attack and improved trip with it. At lv8 it becomes greater trip.
This links together with the feat above, giving me an AoO that could be a dirty trick. Else, its just going to be a poison weapon hit. Further more, there is a feat in lords of the night that allows me a free bite attack after any strike. A dangerous combo.
And now a few veils I am looking at.
The entitled gains the poison use class feature, no longer risking accidentally poisoning themselves. In addition, their weapons are always considered to be coated in a vile akashic poison with the following stats:
Akashic Poison
Type poison (injury); Save Fortitude DC (10 + 1/2 veilweaver level + veilweaving modifier)
Onset -; Frequency 1/round for 6 rounds
Effect 2 Con damage; Cure 1 save
As a swift action, the entitled may change any number of the following attributes:
Save Fortitude or Will
Onset instantaneous, 1 round, 1 minute, or 10 minutes.
Frequency 1/round for 6 rounds, 1/minute for 6 minutes, or 1/10 minutes for 1 hour.
Effect 2 damage to an ability score of your choice or 1 point of essence burn.
Essence: For each point of essence invested in this veil, the save DCs of poisons the entitled uses, and Steel Serpent maneuvers the entitled initiates, increase by +1. For every 2 points of essence invested in this veil, the ability damage or essence burn dealt by the Akashic Poison increases by 1.
Chakra Bind (Belt): The Akashic Poison granted by this veil ignores poison immunity, and creatures that are ability damaged or poisoned are denied their Dexterity bonus to their AC against the entitled’s attacks.
This is what this whole build started with. A powerful poison that is super flexible, grows with essence, has a powerful bind, and most of all - is always on. Since I will be gaining this with a feat, the title descriptor goes away, allowing me to shape it on myself. Its downside tho is that its a belt slot, and if I wanted to wear the akashic catalyst, I would be giving up on an enhancement bonus to a physical stat. The good news is that there are many ways to get some type of enhancement bonus to stats, even if its not the best.
The first time each turn the entitled hits with an unarmed strike or natural weapon, they gain a +2 bonus to Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution. This bonus stacks with itself up to +6 to a single score, but all bonuses are lost if the entitled does not hit with an unarmed strike or natural weapon for 1 round.
These veils are really long to post, so I wont post everything. Summed up, the number of rounds and ability max goes up with essence. Its also an untyped bonus at this time, but I expect that to change before final release.
As a free action, the entitled may single out a victim that they have cursed. That target becomes anchored to their current location, and cannot move more than 5 feet from that location without making a bull rush attempt against a CMD of 10 + your veilweaver level + your veilweaving modifier. This bull rush is made as a part of the move action and does not provoke an attack of opportunity. The target takes a -1 penalty for every 5 feet of distance between it and its anchor point. Failing this check means the target's move is wasted and it cannot move farther away. If it fails this check by 10 or more, it is pulled 5 feet toward the tether point and is knocked prone. If it beats the check by 10 or more, the effects of this veil ends. Only one creature may be affected by this veil at a time.
Depending on the class I go with, taking one of the disciplines that allow me to curse quickly and easy would make this a great assassin veil by locking an opponent to a location and making them invisible to their allies with the bind, but its more flavor then utility.
Lastly,
As a move action, the entitled may store energy within this veil as a ‘charge’, up to a maximum of two charges. Whenever the entitled hits with a weapon attack, the entitled may expend a charge as a free action, even if it isn’t their turn (but only once per attack), to immediately make a disarm, dirty trick, reposition, or trip combat maneuver against the target. This combat maneuver attempt does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If the entitled could already use the combat maneuver without provoking attacks of opportunity, the entitled insteads gain a +4 bonus on their CMB check.
Essence: Each point of essence invested in this veil grants a +1 bonus on CMB checks for disarm, dirty trick, reposition, or trip combat maneuvers. Every 2 points of essence invested in this veil increases the number of charges the veil can hold by 1.
This is where it all comes together. The charges have no time limit and go up with essence. I gain greater trip with a stance, I have greater dirty trip with rogue talents, and a way to use them as a free action. As it is a free action and not an AoO, I dont 'need' combat reflexes but its still on the table being dex based.
So summed up, what I am looking at doing is making someone who can debuff my target to the point of uselessness within 1 to 2 turns, with the option of not killing my target at the same time. Looking at the feats, there is more then enough to make the save DC's get into the mid 20's, so that is a great start.
Writing this post, I am honestly thinking about dropping mithral current Its a major investment, that requires a setup, to get a feat worth 2 ability damage (4 with Lords of the Wild). That will free up some feats and perhaps open up a way for me to get a path that will let me curse a foe too.
Current rotation would be
Standard+Swift action - Sting & Prana move. If it hits, I can use the feat from Lords of the night to make a free bite attack. In stance, that bite attack would make a trip attempt, and with the veil, I could use a dirty trick.
If rogue - that is a debilitating injury debuff too.
If I have a class with Radiant Dawn, I can deliver the strike as a ranged touch attack. With my ease of hitting D-Dex or FF, that is an ac of 10!. Downside tho, I cant use my bite attack after then if I am out of reach. Its also not a weapon so I wont get my poison veil either I dont think, but its not a bad option to have if I am a class with a large discipline selection.
Advanced rogue talents also get bonkers. Two debilitating injuries on one hit, 2 strength damage on each sneak attack, an akashic advanced rogue talent that lets me do con damage equal to my number of sneak attack dice at the cost of 1 essence burn too, however only rogue can get these, and already pre level 10, this is so much raw stat damage. This is what I mean by overkill.
So what I am looking for is opinions, content I may have overlooked, suggestions, or anything of the like that you think may be of note.
First off - the class to use.
Im kinda torn between Aegis, Stalker, Rajah, and Unchained Rogue.
Aegis is very powerful, but lacks any bonus feats, or feats related to class. They also only have access to 3 disciplines, making this a hard sell. Im thinking about dropping this off the list, but the reason it is here is due to its very simple method of gaining natural attacks, and the ability to both gain martial arts AND akashic powers
Stalker is on the list due to easy access to a large number of maneuvers, stalker arts that can be swapped for rogue talents (and thus, gain akashic related powers), and fcb's that provide extra stalker arts.
Rajah, rather the archetype Batal is on the list due to access to akashic veils, martial arts, fcb bonus feats, and its sheer fun to play. However, it does not feel like a very poison-ish class to play, nor do the servants really mesh with such a style.
Unchained Rogue is currently my top pick due to access once again to akashic content, path of war content, fcb bonus feats, rogue talents that are quite flexible, and most of, their INSANE debuffing ability right out the box. The downside is I feel this is pushing past the point of overkill as there is such a thing as too much.
Next are the feats and class features I am eyeing. I will put them into a sub category to prevent a massive wall of text.
You gain a +2 bonus to saving throw DCs when using maneuvers of the selected discipline. You also inflict an additional +2 points of damage when wielding associated weapons of the chosen discipline.
A +2 save DC on on all my Steel Serpent moves is a huge deal seeing how nearly everything I want to do will require a save. There is an additional +2 from using a discipline weapon too, so these will really add up.
Prerequisites: Quick Draw, two Mithral Current maneuvers known, two Steel Serpent maneuvers known.
Benefit: Whenever you use a Steel Serpent maneuver to deal ability score damage to a creature with vulnerability to silver, increase that ability score damage by 50%.
This one I am up in the air about. For Rogue, its super easy to get into, but beyond that, thats a whole lot of feats. Looking at the average ability damage I can pull off with SS sting and prana's, its looking like an average of 2, so this feat translates to an extra 2 ability damage on average when used together. It adds up, but if its worth it or not? That I am not quite sure yet.
Cursed creatures, diseased creatures, and creatures suffering from ability damage take a –2 penalty on saving throws against your maneuvers.
Very easy to get feat, and very easy to apply. I feel this, combined with the first one I linked will give me a solid 6 shift in my favor plus my ability mod (assume a 5 here). Few things will be able to make that save, much less make it several times per turn.
Benefit: Whenever you hit a creature with a Steel Serpent maneuver, that creature takes a –1 penalty on attack rolls and to their AC for two rounds. At character level 5th and at every five levels thereafter, this penalty increases by –1.
Again, I am up in the air about opting for this style feat over others for reasons I will define as they come up. This one is a pure easy to apply debuff that I can get as early as lv3. In order to apply my poison, I need to hit, and if I am hitting things, they will also try to hit back (if they survive). However the other 2 make me wonder if this is the best choice.
Benefit: As a swift action, you can expend a readied boost to treat opponents suffering from ability damage as flat-footed until the start of your next turn.
So a couple issues with this one. First, it eats my swift action. That means I cant use my boost to apply more poison. Second, later on I will be linking a veil that already makes them D-Dex, so this is kinda a worthless feat to me.
Benefit: Whenever you deal weapon damage to a creature suffering from ability score damage, that creature must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC = 10 + 1/2 your character level + your highest initiation modifier) or become nauseated for one round. Multiple uses of this effect do not stack, nor do they increase the duration.
I would not get this until level 13, and just as a quick reference, "Creatures with the nauseated condition experience stomach distress. Nauseated creatures are unable to attack, cast spells, concentrate on spells, or do anything else requiring attention. The only action such a character can take is a single move action per turn."
It is indeed powerful, and it would be easy to apply every turn. It is in effect an SoS move right down to the bone. Due to its wording tho, I do not know if they would also get the debuff from sicked as nauseated is a more severe version of sickened.
My other style feat option would perhaps be Mithral Current style, using a trait to key Preform off of INT or something like that. Honestly tho, of the two, SS style is more appealing, and I am not even sure I need or want Mithral Current since the only feat I need it for is worth a whole 2 ability damage.
A rogue who selects this talent gains Improved Dirty Trick as a bonus feat, even if she does not meet the prerequisites. At 6th level, she is treated as if she meets all the prerequisites for Greater Dirty Trick (although she must take the feat as normal). If she succeeds in giving her target the blinded condition, the target cannot remove the condition during the first round of blindness.
While this is a rogue talent and not quite a feat, it is the only one I really care about out the whole core rogue list. The inability to remove it on the first round is very nasty, and the ability to apply the blinded condition as an option is great for any debuff build. Picking up greater dirty trick and Dirty Trick Master, I open up my options for disabling someone if I choose not to desire to kill them. It also flows very well with this next feat....
Benefit: When you make an attack of opportunity, you can use take an attack action (such as vital strike) or attempt a combat maneuver (such as a bull rush, disarm or dirty trick) in place of your attack of opportunity. This feat does not allow you to move when it isn’t your turn.
I will need to take combat reflexes for this one, but depending on where this build goes, I either will need it anyway, or wont care about it at all. This feat will allow me to trip, provoke an AoO from the trip and use a dirty trick on the way down to blind or whatever I wish. This is a very optional feat tho as if I go this round, I am looking at being super fear starved.
I will be omitting all the feats for shaping veils and stuff like that since I will be linking the veils I am interested in in another sub topic.
When you use a natural attack to apply a sting or prana while in a chimera soul stance, you deal 2 additional ability damage to the same stat on the following round.
This is from the Lords of the Wild playtest, and is honestly one of the best feats, thanks to the stance I am required to be in. Since I do not plan to make another sub topic for stances, I will link the stance I am interested in right now. [Moon Hound Stance] - Gain a bite attack and improved trip with it. At lv8 it becomes greater trip.
This links together with the feat above, giving me an AoO that could be a dirty trick. Else, its just going to be a poison weapon hit. Further more, there is a feat in lords of the night that allows me a free bite attack after any strike. A dangerous combo.
And now a few veils I am looking at.
The entitled gains the poison use class feature, no longer risking accidentally poisoning themselves. In addition, their weapons are always considered to be coated in a vile akashic poison with the following stats:
Akashic Poison
Type poison (injury); Save Fortitude DC (10 + 1/2 veilweaver level + veilweaving modifier)
Onset -; Frequency 1/round for 6 rounds
Effect 2 Con damage; Cure 1 save
As a swift action, the entitled may change any number of the following attributes:
Save Fortitude or Will
Onset instantaneous, 1 round, 1 minute, or 10 minutes.
Frequency 1/round for 6 rounds, 1/minute for 6 minutes, or 1/10 minutes for 1 hour.
Effect 2 damage to an ability score of your choice or 1 point of essence burn.
Essence: For each point of essence invested in this veil, the save DCs of poisons the entitled uses, and Steel Serpent maneuvers the entitled initiates, increase by +1. For every 2 points of essence invested in this veil, the ability damage or essence burn dealt by the Akashic Poison increases by 1.
Chakra Bind (Belt): The Akashic Poison granted by this veil ignores poison immunity, and creatures that are ability damaged or poisoned are denied their Dexterity bonus to their AC against the entitled’s attacks.
This is what this whole build started with. A powerful poison that is super flexible, grows with essence, has a powerful bind, and most of all - is always on. Since I will be gaining this with a feat, the title descriptor goes away, allowing me to shape it on myself. Its downside tho is that its a belt slot, and if I wanted to wear the akashic catalyst, I would be giving up on an enhancement bonus to a physical stat. The good news is that there are many ways to get some type of enhancement bonus to stats, even if its not the best.
The first time each turn the entitled hits with an unarmed strike or natural weapon, they gain a +2 bonus to Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution. This bonus stacks with itself up to +6 to a single score, but all bonuses are lost if the entitled does not hit with an unarmed strike or natural weapon for 1 round.
These veils are really long to post, so I wont post everything. Summed up, the number of rounds and ability max goes up with essence. Its also an untyped bonus at this time, but I expect that to change before final release.
As a free action, the entitled may single out a victim that they have cursed. That target becomes anchored to their current location, and cannot move more than 5 feet from that location without making a bull rush attempt against a CMD of 10 + your veilweaver level + your veilweaving modifier. This bull rush is made as a part of the move action and does not provoke an attack of opportunity. The target takes a -1 penalty for every 5 feet of distance between it and its anchor point. Failing this check means the target's move is wasted and it cannot move farther away. If it fails this check by 10 or more, it is pulled 5 feet toward the tether point and is knocked prone. If it beats the check by 10 or more, the effects of this veil ends. Only one creature may be affected by this veil at a time.
Depending on the class I go with, taking one of the disciplines that allow me to curse quickly and easy would make this a great assassin veil by locking an opponent to a location and making them invisible to their allies with the bind, but its more flavor then utility.
Lastly,
As a move action, the entitled may store energy within this veil as a ‘charge’, up to a maximum of two charges. Whenever the entitled hits with a weapon attack, the entitled may expend a charge as a free action, even if it isn’t their turn (but only once per attack), to immediately make a disarm, dirty trick, reposition, or trip combat maneuver against the target. This combat maneuver attempt does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If the entitled could already use the combat maneuver without provoking attacks of opportunity, the entitled insteads gain a +4 bonus on their CMB check.
Essence: Each point of essence invested in this veil grants a +1 bonus on CMB checks for disarm, dirty trick, reposition, or trip combat maneuvers. Every 2 points of essence invested in this veil increases the number of charges the veil can hold by 1.
This is where it all comes together. The charges have no time limit and go up with essence. I gain greater trip with a stance, I have greater dirty trip with rogue talents, and a way to use them as a free action. As it is a free action and not an AoO, I dont 'need' combat reflexes but its still on the table being dex based.
So summed up, what I am looking at doing is making someone who can debuff my target to the point of uselessness within 1 to 2 turns, with the option of not killing my target at the same time. Looking at the feats, there is more then enough to make the save DC's get into the mid 20's, so that is a great start.
Writing this post, I am honestly thinking about dropping mithral current Its a major investment, that requires a setup, to get a feat worth 2 ability damage (4 with Lords of the Wild). That will free up some feats and perhaps open up a way for me to get a path that will let me curse a foe too.
Current rotation would be
Standard+Swift action - Sting & Prana move. If it hits, I can use the feat from Lords of the night to make a free bite attack. In stance, that bite attack would make a trip attempt, and with the veil, I could use a dirty trick.
If rogue - that is a debilitating injury debuff too.
If I have a class with Radiant Dawn, I can deliver the strike as a ranged touch attack. With my ease of hitting D-Dex or FF, that is an ac of 10!. Downside tho, I cant use my bite attack after then if I am out of reach. Its also not a weapon so I wont get my poison veil either I dont think, but its not a bad option to have if I am a class with a large discipline selection.
Advanced rogue talents also get bonkers. Two debilitating injuries on one hit, 2 strength damage on each sneak attack, an akashic advanced rogue talent that lets me do con damage equal to my number of sneak attack dice at the cost of 1 essence burn too, however only rogue can get these, and already pre level 10, this is so much raw stat damage. This is what I mean by overkill.
So what I am looking for is opinions, content I may have overlooked, suggestions, or anything of the like that you think may be of note.