Tiefling innate casting questions

[Bladewing2013]

Would it be withing the realm of reason to say Tieflings could cast thamaturgy "instantly" (ie. does cast spell but no talking, still takes action), sense A It does nothing combat wise, B You can cast it because of your heritage? And similar for other spells they do. Cause if not then just get a group of people, and when the Tiefling goes to Hellish Rebuke one the rest of the group interrupts them with readied actions.

[AttilatheYeon]

Readied actions don't interupt. They act after the trigger. So your worry about Tiefling spells isn't really warranted.

As an avid Tiefling player i wouldn't change the spells to what you're asking. It makes Tieflings too powerful and makes Sorcs feel less interesting, which they don't need help with.

[JackPhoenix]

I houseruled all racial spells (except high elven cantrip, which is learned) as innate spells with no M, S or V components, and when someone else from my group takes over the GMing, s/he'll does the same. Only place where did it have mechanical effect was drow fighter not needing to drop his weapon or pack material component when using Dancing Lights to great effect as a distraction in a fight.

[Bladewing2013]

This is my friend argument and it's annoying.
The Tieflings thaumaturgy can be seen and countered even though it is an innate ability. And not by a spell caster, but by a normal guard.

[Bladewing2013]

That doesn't sound right cause it would be an innate ability because its you race, not something you learn

[Aett_Thorn]

This is my friend argument and it's annoying.
The Tieflings thaumaturgy can be seen and countered even though it is an innate ability. And not by a spell caster, but by a normal guard.

How does the normal guard do that? If he can't cast counter spell, there's really nothing that he can do.

[Jerrykhor]

Readied actions don't interupt. They act after the trigger. So your worry about Tiefling spells isn't really warranted.

As an avid Tiefling player i wouldn't change the spells to what you're asking. It makes Tieflings too powerful and makes Sorcs feel less interesting, which they don't need help with.

Too powerful? Its just Thaumaturgy...

I would say since its innate, there is no V required. Its not all all Tieflings go to Tiefling school just to learn the magic word for Thaumaturgy.

[sithlordnergal]

Maybe I'm reading it wrong...but Thaumaturgy is a cantrip that takes an action to cast, and requires no concentration. How is anyone interrupting this? Attacks don't cause spells to fail last I checked, you'd need a Counterspell to stop it. And honestly...if someone is using Counterspell to stop Thaumaturgy then I say let them waste the spell slot. X3 It'd be like Counterspelling a Presdigitation. 9 times out of 10, it isn't doing too much.

[Avigor]

Our group has pretty much been forgetting that Thaumaturgy is supposed to require V/S components to begin with and just declaring whichever effects we are using...

[Jerrykhor]

Even though its not stated anywhere in the PHB, its pretty much implied. Also, its common sense. A spell that you can cast innately means it comes naturally to you. No VSM required, because no spell slot required. Still takes an action/reaction though. Tell your friend to stuff it.

[Joe the Rat]

Casting being an action is a given, but innate and requires components is a false dichotomy.

You have the inherent ability to use language, but you still have to learn it, and still need to make it manifest by spoken or written word. Tieflings and Drow have inherent magical ability, but they may have had to learn to harness or focus that power, and words or gestures would be a way to focus that power in a useful way.

Note that V,S and harnessing power doesn't have to look like a 'jibber and jazzhands' spell. You gesture at the target of your effect, or take a certain stance to use your Outdoor Voice. Or scream and make the cabinet doors fly open. Sort of like what we see with the majority of Mutants in the various Marvel properties. Hell, when you see someone standing there and using the "touch my temple" Somatic component, you know some psychic hoodoo is coming.

On a comparison point, sorcerers. Having inborn magic is the default fluff. They just have to learn to manifest it. Like learning how to throw a proper punch. And they're the ones who explicitly have the ability to learn to "eschew components" at a power cost.

And in contrast, Warlocks and Gith. Some Invocations, such as Armor of Shadows and Fiendish Vigor specifically call out not needing their material components. Gith innate spellcasting (psionics) specifically says they require no components. If they mean something to not require components, they will say so. So point that finger and carry a charm to help you focus your inborn ability to make magic happen.

If you want the abilities to be a bit more reflexive and Carrie-like, you can make or request such a ruling.

[Varlon]

Even though its not stated anywhere in the PHB, its pretty much implied. Also, its common sense. A spell that you can cast innately means it comes naturally to you. No VSM required, because no spell slot required. Still takes an action/reaction though. Tell your friend to stuff it.

You can houserule it however you want, but this is nonsense. When you can cast something without a certain component, the book says so. Does that mean that ritual spells don't need any components either?

[Jerrykhor]

You can houserule it however you want, but this is nonsense. When you can cast something without a certain component, the book says so. Does that mean that ritual spells don't need any components either?

No, but this is a racial spell. Are you saying a Tiefling Fighter can't cast Darkness just because he doesn't have an arcane focus or bat fur/piece of coal? Use some damn common sense for goodness sake.

[Joe the Rat]

Yep - except that it has to be the lump of coal (or fuzzy lump of coal - a comma would really have helped there, guys). Fighters don't learn to use arcane foci. It's a racial spell. You're still "manipulating the Weave" or whatever your setting's magic-making-mumbo-jumbo is. You've got an inherent knack for darkness, you just need that touchstone to invoke it.

[Puh Laden]

No, but this is a racial spell. Are you saying a Tiefling Fighter can't cast Darkness just because he doesn't have an arcane focus or bat fur/piece of coal? Use some damn common sense for goodness sake.

A sorcerer with the white dragon bloodline can't cast cone of cold without components unless they take subtle spell either.

[Mortis_Elrod]

Spells are spells . When something ignores the rules of spells it is explicitly said so. Usually with the line of “can cast X spell without components or spell slot”.

Also who is wasting time trying to interrupt harmless cantrips? No counterspell no interrupt, it’s instant.