PC classes that would be good as rulers/politicians/etc.

[danielxcutter]

As title. Obviously having social skills like Diplomacy as class skills would help, as well as good amounts of skill points. And before someone says this: NO, a T1 caster who can say "do what I say or else" is not what I am looking at ALL. A T1 caster who can be a ruler, leader, or otherwise do politics without having to rely on their casting is fair enough and it's true that it would help in several ways, but still.

Personally in my opinion, Rogue would be good, and Factotum might be even better - while a king might have a court mage or such to handle specialized matters, knowing enough to not have the wool pulled over your eyes isn't useful.

What do you guys think?

[Lord Raziere]

Well I'd say a ruler primarily needs two ability scores in abundance:

Charisma, and Wisdom. the wisdom to listen and pay attention, to perceive and to read people's true intentions, and the charisma to manipulate people back using diplomacy, but bluff can be useful when things get dirty, and intimidate when you have to do more warlike things.

Intelligence and Constitution are good to have so that you aren't ignorant and remain healthy so that you can continue ruling, but you don't need to know everything- you have scholars to look up stuff for you- and you should have a good amount of physicians to heal you.

Strength and Dexterity are dump stats. a ruler does not need to wield the sword themselves, they send their men to fight for them. thats why you have armies you command.

So whatever class best suits that set up. problem is, a lot of the spellcasting classes that have Wisdom or Charisma prioritize one to the exclusion of the other.

that isn't the real problem though, the real problem is that nothing in DnD makes it clear what the skill is for things like "reforming law" "managing government funds" and other such boring stuff involving legalese, bureaucracy, the actual structure of government and so on even are, since that isn't DnD's focus. sure you can rule well as a single ruler, but proper design of law makes sure your government functions long after you no longer rule. sure your warlord guy can take the throne from a tyrant and sure he can be wise and charismatic enough to hold it, but all thats just staving off the inevitable chaos from having one awesome ruler and a weak government structure, so when the awesome ruler dies, that structure falls apart because they are all thats propping it up. some of the best politicians are ones who reformed law so that things became more stable and better functioning because of it even after they're long gone. so if you want to go THAT far, your out of luck, probably.

also immortal rulers just guarantee someone getting tired of doing this all the time, its not a matter of "if", its a matter of "when", so they will start eventually making ways to make the governments function without them anyways so that they can focus on other things. and they could do this badly or well depending on whether they're just lazily passing the buck or actually designing a system that doesn't need them to command it for anything to get done.

aside from that, its honestly hard to say, I can't think of many classes off the top of my head that could fit, aside from maaaaaaaaaybe Bard. Maybe.

[Eldariel]

Spells that buff skills such as Divine Insight, Guidance of the Avatar, Improvisation, Glibness and company would be big game. Divinations or in general, options that allow you to acquire information beyond your own mind would also stand out - a leader needs to truly have all the important information to be able to make informed decisions after all. Psionic powers such as Hypercognition particularly stand out here. Finally, spells that simply give you raw buffs to mental stats like Owl's Insight [Spell Compendium] or Nixie's Grace [Spell Compendium]. So I'd pick a class with access to as many of those as possible.

Incidentally, I'd consider Intelligence more important than Wisdom; while figuring out when others are being dishonest with you is key, for good decisions (you have the ultimate authority) being able to understand your advisors' (and divine patrons' and so on) data and analyse it and form your own syntheses on what's the best option in the grand scheme of things (you're the only one who knows the big picture; all your advisors are specialists in various areas but they can't necessarily tell how their area might impact another's area) does fall unto the leader. Real world is full of examples

Cloistered Cleric stands out as an excellent option, with many ways to buff skills, good skill points and naturally high Wisdom and Charisma (with the option to also invest in Intelligence) and access to most of the key skills (all if you have appropriate domains - even Glibness is available from Commerce domain).

Bard is absolutely wonderfully suited for this task - Charisma/Intelligence base, lots of spells that improve their ability to interact with people and use skills, lots of skill points and all the important skills in class. Add the ability to influence masses at will with Bardic Music (Fascinate and Mass Suggestion can drive through basically anything) and you have a recipe for a mastermind.

Beguiler is another stand out option though they have to work to get access to the various skill buffing spells.

Unseen Seer Wizard (Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer) could definitely shine in this regard with access to basically everything a ruler might ever have need for.

Factotum has some spell access, incredible skill access and innate skill buffs baked into the class so particularly on higher levels, they'd be amazing at it (as with everything else).

Finally, Psionics actually offer a ton for anyone in a position to make and market decisions so Psion, Erudite or Ardent should all be at least mildly interesting though they naturally do lack access to the key skills and skill points which would require investment.


Ultimately, all the skill classes (Cloistered Cleric, Bard, Factotum) should rank really high since rulership is basically just a crapload of different skill checks at an intense pace. Of PRCs, Unseen Seer is the only one that truly jumps out to me as bringing another class upto the same par (Wizard, in this case).

[RedMage125]

I just want to point out that Perform (oratory) is a perfectly legitimate use for Bardic Music abilities

[Elder_Basilisk]

If you bring Pathfinder into it, cavalier is actually very well equipped for this too. All of the relevant skills are or can be class skills and some order abilities like order of the lion, tactician, and banner can provide solid mechanical benefits to soldiers in battle should the ruler need to take the field personally.

[Avigor]

I'd say that alongside Charisma, Wisdom, and social skills, I'd suggest some Intelligence and a smattering of skills such as Knowledge (History and Local) and Profession (Bureaucrat) to better understand the minutia of management and the background of those who you have to deal with diplomatically, and then Divinations to predict what will happen and be prepared before you get zapped.

Thus, I'd also advocate Cloistered Cleric.

[Zancloufer]

Finally, Psionics actually offer a ton for anyone in a position to make and market decisions so Psion, Erudite or Ardent should all be at least mildly interesting though they naturally do lack access to the key skills and skill points which would require investment.

Telepathic Psion would be awesome. Not only do they gain access to some of the key social skills their telepathic type powers would be much more useful in a game of court intrigue than straight adventuring.

Or they could go Thrallherd and just make an entire nation out of their minions.

[Twurps]

I may be pointing out the obvious, but a level of marshall for an extra Cha-mod to Cha-skills is always nice. Just the 1 level dip though.

[Vhaidara]

If you bring Pathfinder into it, cavalier is actually very well equipped for this too. All of the relevant skills are or can be class skills and some order abilities like order of the lion, tactician, and banner can provide solid mechanical benefits to soldiers in battle should the ruler need to take the field personally.

That sounds like a general, not a ruler. With only 4+Int skill points and no benefit from int aside from skill points, as well as a need for Str if you intend to go into battle, cavalier is unlikely to be able to keep his skills relevant

[TalonOfAnathrax]

I think that a Beguiler who didn't dump Charisma would make a great ruler. Lots of skill points, useful magic... Yep!
He might be missing a few class skills, but give him Able Learner or a few feats that enlarge your class list and things should be fine.

Otherwise, a Gold Dragon would make a good ruler. Good alignment, lots of skill points, superhuman intellect and patience. Of course Dragons have a certain outlook on the world that might get in the way, but overall a Gold Dragon could do a great job.

[Anthrowhale]

Not mentioned yet, but Archivist is solid in the sense that they have Int+4 skills with Int focus + Diplomacy + all knowledge + profession + gather information + a very diverse selection of spells. It's close to cloistered cleric in profile, except with additional spell versatility and Int focus instead of Wis focus.

Using Troacctid's spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1geywITbI4M-Up08SGD-rUHlnobR66aIgKqu7mILkmhU/edit#gid=691970088) the prestige classes which advance spellcasting without forcing lost levels and grant all knowledge skills, profession, sense motive, listen, spot, gather information, decipher script, bluff, and diplomacy are Urban Savant (bard entry), Unseen Seer (arcane only), Arcane Trickster (via Martial Stance), Dwarven Chanter, and Master Harper. Of these, Urban Savant, Dwarven Chanter, and Master Harper grant UMD, and of those Urban Savant, and Dwarven Chanter grant 6+Int skills.

[PhantasyPen]

Certain kings are often mentioned to be paladins in D&D, and the class offers a lot of abilities that a medieval ruler (who actually would need some measure of martial prowess) would find useful I think.

[Malimar]

Depends on the style of kingdom (which may partially depend on what sort of story you inhabit).

If the capital is a nest of vipers (King's Landing, for example), you want to be a Rogue (pump Bluff and Sense Motive).

If your vassals are majority Lawful (like the North in Westeros), be Lawful and pump Wisdom and maybe Intelligence and thereby earn a reputation for being a wise and just ruler. Class doesn't help much here.

If you're a wartime king and want to be leading the troops yourself, Marshal or Bard.

If you're building your own kingdom or the kingdom is an elective monarchy or something along those lines, to even become king you need to pump Charisma, and probably be a Bard.

If you're a barbarian king, you want to be somebody who can win at single combat to remain king, so a ToB class (or Barbarian or Fighter if you discount the metagame fact that these are inferior classes).

In a theocracy, you obviously want to be a Cleric.

[Doctor Despair]

If your vassals are majority Lawful (like the North in Westeros), be Lawful and pump Wisdom and maybe Intelligence and thereby earn a reputation for being a wise and just ruler. Class doesn't help much here.
.


I would say that wisdom and con are of more use to this kind of ruler. You need to be healthy and vigorous to command respect as well. You can employ smart folks (think the maesters), but with wisdom you can discern if those smart advisers are being forthright

[The Viscount]

Jordain Vizier is a class that is pretty much built for this sort of thing, even if it isn't super strong.

[Coidzor]

A Bard with Bardic Knack would be a good contender. I'm on mobile and don't feel like hunting for it, but JaronK had a good post about Leadership Mechanics in 3.5 that is pretty good. Also, if interest here.

[Yogibear41]

Dragonlance has the Noble PC class, its basically an upgraded Aristocrat.

[Telonius]

To my mind, a ruler has to be able to do a few things: be charismatic (able to inspire people), be wise enough to know when someone's fooling them, surviving assassination attempts, and running away when necessary.

My shocking conclusion: Monk.

High saves (to survive assassination attempts), AC and weapons even if he's caught in his royal pajamas, eventual immunity to poison and disease. Slow fall for defenestration defense. For running away: speed bonuses and Abundant Step, plus Hide, Move Silently, and Tumble on the skill list. Swim as well, in case he needs to get across a river; Escape Artist, for when the bad guys tie him up. For social things, he has Diplomacy as a class skill, and Tongue of Sun and Moon to receive ambassadors from around the world. High Wisdom and Sense Motive on the class list, so he can tell if someone's trying to fool him. Perform is a class skill, so Perform (oratory) is there. Profession too. And to round it out, being the monarch will mitigate one of the most obnoxious parts of being a Monk: greater dependence on magic items. No worries about affording those Bracers of Armor or Belt of Magnificence.

[Chronos]

In addition to having class abilities that would help, being a paladin would also inspire a certain level of trust in the populace. It's one thing to have a king who everyone knows is good and just; it's another to have a king whom the gods themselves have decreed to be good and just.

[PhantasyPen]

In addition to having class abilities that would help, being a paladin would also inspire a certain level of trust in the populace. It's one thing to have a king who everyone knows is good and just; it's another to have a king whom the gods themselves have decreed to be good and just.

An additional point I forgot to mention in my recommendation.

[Avigor]

To my mind, a ruler has to be able to do a few things: be charismatic (able to inspire people), be wise enough to know when someone's fooling them, surviving assassination attempts, and running away when necessary.

My shocking conclusion: Monk.

High saves (to survive assassination attempts), AC and weapons even if he's caught in his royal pajamas, eventual immunity to poison and disease. Slow fall for defenestration defense. For running away: speed bonuses and Abundant Step, plus Hide, Move Silently, and Tumble on the skill list. Swim as well, in case he needs to get across a river; Escape Artist, for when the bad guys tie him up. For social things, he has Diplomacy as a class skill, and Tongue of Sun and Moon to receive ambassadors from around the world. High Wisdom and Sense Motive on the class list, so he can tell if someone's trying to fool him. Perform is a class skill, so Perform (oratory) is there. Profession too. And to round it out, being the monarch will mitigate one of the most obnoxious parts of being a Monk: greater dependence on magic items. No worries about affording those Bracers of Armor or Belt of Magnificence.

Interesting... If you're in a low magic campaign, I'd say maybe throw in the Education feat and a high Intelligence for skills and you win. In a high magic campaign, I'd still want to be able to cast a crapton of Divination spells so I would doubt this idea's viability there.