Booming blade vs green flame blade

[krunchyfrogg]

Is there one that's generally considered more desireable than the other?

[Aaron Underhand]

Booming blade.

Triggering the extra damage on Green flame blade is situational, and it splits between targets, so that it's impact is less.

With booming blade you can force the target to take the extra damage, or else suffer a penalty:
- If you have Warcaster Booming blade gives you the opportunity attack which stops a foe, or gives them the damage
- If you have Mobile or bonus action disengage (e.g. rogue) then Booming blade will also score, they make a weaker missile attack, or close to get melee attacks, taking the damage
- Forced moves by your allies can also cause this effect
- Coupled with spell sniper and PAM you can even get the opportunity attack effect before they close to melle

If you have bonus to fire spells then green flame blade may have some utility - if your universe is full of mooks you may have some utility - but 'cold' I would take booming blade

[Laserlight]

That rather depends on your fights and your design. If you're usually in the middle of a mob of mooks, they may not trigger BB (because they're already adjacent to you, so they don't need to move), and you'll usually get the extra damage from GFB (because there's a target for the extra damage). If you usually fight solos or monsters who don't bunch up, or you're fighting devils / demons which tend to resist fire, then GFB isn't too attractive.

[Chugger]

Okay don't take that advice above that BB really that much better than GFB - it really isn't at all tables - it may be at _some_ tables and with certain character/choices.

First, there are DMs who meta and on your first application of BB simply will not ever let that monster move, if BB is on it. That monster will eat the round or do a range attack or cast a spell - and in AL you can go through module after module where you're often fighting cultists or humanoids who carry xbows and/or cast. BB may not go off much at all in this case.

Does your DM hit you over and over with single really big challenging monsters to fight? If so GFB is not a good choice. But in that case BB is going to be hard to make work, too.

Does your DM do theater of the mind and does he/she "cheat" - i.e. always position things in his/her mind in the most favorable way to the monsters and against the players. Don't kid yourselves- such DMs exist (they suck - but they exist). Two monsters in this case will never ever be in range of each other for GFB to hit the second target. But if the DM is that bad, then a single monster that say you BB and disengage from will somehow be in range of some char and try to hit him, yes it will "teleport" - because DMs like this really suck that badly.

Ahem, so putting aside the vitriol (yes I've had a bad experience or five) - if you often get clusters of monsters to fight, GFB is pretty good - except fire resistance/immunity. Always keep that in mind. And do you play on a grid to keep your DM honest? (yes that's a major benefit of the grid - not all DMs can do an honest theater of the mind)

And look it's easy to get both cantrips - well not in all cases, if you really want other cantrips. But I tend to pick GFB over BB _if_ I have a decent modifier - like a high cha to boost the gfb damage if i get it from a cha class.

So why am I so down on BB? In the fights I'm in we usually start off absurdly close to each other. If I win initiative and if I'm playing a char w/ enough mobility, I can go BB one badguy and maybe cunning action to disengage (but do I have the movement to really get away - maybe not - maybe 4 other badguys attack me on my initiative - not good) or if I'm a gish I burn a slot after moving up to BB a target - and misty step away - and now I'm down a lvl 2 slot for putting a cantrip on someone - might make sense at higher lvls of bb but not for 1d8 or 2d8 dam in most cases.

See where this is going? In the typical fights I'm in there really is very little moving around. The monsters or badguys zoom in and engage in melee - we're usually on a grid - and there is not much more moving around. There is some, but almost always there are two badguys or more ganging up on one of us - and if I'm a rogue type I use my cunning action (if nec) to get on that spot and GFB. There are tricks to forcing BB to go off, like dissonant whispers is usually ruled to trigger bb - because the target is using its legs to move, even if magic fear is the motivation - usually it is a thunderwave or thornwhip effect that is ruled not to trigger the bb, where the spell moves you.

Anyway, there are cases where BB is awesome, but you have to know how your typical game works and what the habits are of the DM you're likely to be with to really know which cantrip is better. It is entirely possible to get BB and never once have it go off for the extra damage over an entire adventure.

[Chugger]

Oh, another way to use BB that isn't often talked about (it's kind of brutal):

let's say you have a decent AC or you got that rogue ability to cut half damage on a reaction or you're just a good tank with plenty of hps (and somehow you have the bb cantrip).

You are in melee with one badguy. You put bb on him, and if you have cunning action you've used it, let's say, for something else. And if you don't have cunning action you also don't have misty step or don't want to burn the slot on it if you do.

Let's also say this badguy is kind of nasty - maybe it multi attacks - two three or even four attacks per round. But I'm pretty sure if you step away from it and give it an AoO it only gets off one of its attacks. If you're fighting a humanoid doing, say, two weapon fighting - it gets one. With monsters who have multiattack I'll have to check. So you let it roll to hit - which it may very well fail and miss you. And then force it to eat its turn (it has no range attack or its range attack is weak) - or take the BB damage to pursue you and melee again.

Why is this ever a good thing to consider? If the most it can do you is, say, 1d6 +2, you will take 5.5 average damage on a hit but under half that if its odds of hitting you stink. But the booming blade does 9 points of damage to it at lvl 5 - and 13.5 dam at lvl 11. So you're taking 2 or 3 pts of damage on average vs tricking into taking way more damage. It's something to consider if you find yourself in this situation.

(edit and if you're a rogue and still have a reaction, if the badguy hits you with its AoO you halve the damage - so a rogue can try this even if the badguy's damage average is a bit high - but not too high - and free up the bonus action for something else - and look into swashbuckler w/ Magic Init or a dip to get the cantrip).

[Laserlight]

Let's also say this badguy is kind of nasty - maybe it multi attacks - two three or even four attacks per round. But I'm pretty sure if you step away from it and give it an AoO it only gets off one of its attacks. If you're fighting a humanoid doing, say, two weapon fighting - it gets one. With monsters who have multiattack I'll have to check. So you let it roll to hit - which it may very well fail and miss you. And then force it to eat its turn (it has no range attack or its range attack is weak) - or take the BB damage to pursue you and melee again

When you provoke OA, you only receive one attack per monster you provoke.

[bid]

Is there one that's generally considered more desireable than the other?
I prefer BB because it can be twinned. It's also great if you have mobile (or equivalent) and can leave an enemy without targets in melee range.

GFB would be nice if Int hadn't become the dump stat. It has better damage after level 5 and can help kill targets faster.


tl;dr
If you maneuver well, BB can force enemies to "play dead" every round. Killing fast or locking them out is just as good.

[Chugger]

I prefer BB because it can be twinned. It's also great if you have mobile (or equivalent) and can leave an enemy without targets in melee range.

GFB would be nice if Int hadn't become the dump stat. It has better damage after level 5 and can help kill targets faster.


tl;dr
If you maneuver well, BB can force enemies to "play dead" every round. Killing fast or locking them out is just as good.

I thought GFB gets its bonus depending on where it comes from - what class. Sounds like you're a sorc or sorc-dip - and wouldn't the secondary damage bonus come from your Cha? Unless you wanted a familiar and took a feat and got GFB off that (magic init Wiz)?

Even if you can maneuver, in many fights I've witnessed over the fall and summer - with many different AL DMs - no, you can't "force enemies to 'play dead' every round" - this only works on _some_ rounds. Once enemies surge up and get on the front-line player characters, from what I've seen the "line" stays static for x rounds. Yes there is some moving around but it is hard to predict sometimes. BB is not always this "godlike" with all DMs. It really is DM style dependent, how good BB is - at least from what I've seen. I would certainly agree that yes BB _could_ with the right DM and the right kinds of fights be very good. And it can make moving around difficult. And yes twinning it is nice, agreed. A few DMs will let you twin GFB but most won't, cuz of a Sage Advice ruling - but if you look at the RAW it's not really 100% clear - DMs are free to rule either way.

[Elric VIII]

First, there are DMs who meta and on your first application of BB simply will not ever let that monster move, if BB is on it. That monster will eat the round or do a range attack or cast a spell - and in AL you can go through module after module where you're often fighting cultists or humanoids who carry xbows and/or cast. BB may not go off much at all in this case.

I don't know about you, but I'm okay with rooting a monster in place. That can be way more powerful than 1-4 extra d8 damage.





I generally prefer GFB in the earlier levels when I'm more likely to fight mobs of weaker creatures. However I think BB comes out on top, overall:


Rogue: BB can leverage your cunning action by rooting the enemy or giving bonus damage.
Cleric: BB with Spirit Guardians pretty much guarantees damage.
Sorcerer: Twinned BB is about the same as quickened GFB since it is hitting 2 adjacent targets, but you can also quicken a different spell while twinning BB. More options here.
Fighter/Paladin: You've probably got War Caster, so BB works better here if you can get OAs.
Warlock: Darkness + Devil's Sight will make enemies want to disengage and BB punishes that.

[War_lord]

Assuming a table with a grid. Booming Blade is better for builds that want to shut down enemy movement, GFB is better for tank builds that want to draw all the enemies into a cluster around them. GFB isn't going to be much good to an Arcane Trickster, and BB isn't much good to an Eldritch Knight (although in that case I think you could do a build focused on discouraging attacks on anyone but you).

[bid]

I thought GFB gets its bonus depending on where it comes from - what class. Sounds like you're a sorc or sorc-dip - and wouldn't the secondary damage bonus come from your Cha? Unless you wanted a familiar and took a feat and got GFB off that (magic init Wiz)?
Yes, I was thinking about cases where you can't pick both (high elf) or would rather get some utilities (MI).
You make me remember arcana cleric is limited to 2 picks, so Wis is also possible.



Even if you can maneuver, in many fights I've witnessed over the fall and summer - with many different AL DMs - no, you can't "force enemies to 'play dead' every round" - this only works on _some_ rounds. Once enemies surge up and get on the front-line player characters, from what I've seen the "line" stays static for x rounds. Yes there is some moving around but it is hard to predict sometimes. BB is not always this "godlike" with all DMs. It really is DM style dependent, how good BB is - at least from what I've seen.
That's mostly true also, but I feel it happens more often than having 2 targets for GFB.

And warcaster becomes better than sentinel if you have BB. But that's a "tank" argument and not a "mobile" one.

[Tanarii]

Assuming a table with a grid. Booming Blade is better for builds that want to shut down enemy movement, GFB is better for tank builds that want to draw all the enemies into a cluster around them. GFB isn't going to be much good to an Arcane Trickster, and BB isn't much good to an Eldritch Knight (although in that case I think you could do a build focused on discouraging attacks on anyone but you).
Since discouraging attacks on anyone but you is the entire purpose of a tank, BB is the premier tanking cantrip for EKs.

[djreynolds]

Thunder is less resisted than fire, if that helps

[Throne12]

In a game I am a player I get more use out of green flame blade my DM likes to use mobs. Booming blade isn't so usefull because enemy's don't move around.

Now at my table I DM booming blade is more useful. Enemy's are always moving around providing AoO. And I sometimes use a lot of enemy's but barely clump them together.

BB is good for single target.
GFB is good for mobs.

[Tanarii]

Booming blade isn't so usefull because enemy's don't move around.
The entire purpose of booming blade is to stop the target from moving around. Not to do damage. But yeah, if your enemies already aren't doing that, then yeah, it's kinda useless. They're already doing what the typical party wants. Sticking to the tanks and not going pursuing the squishies.

[sithlordnergal]

This really depends on how your DM throws monsters at you and your your build. For example, if the DM likes to have monsters use Disengage to escape being ganged up, then Booming Blade is a great deterrent.

If the monsters stand still, gang up on you, or you have Sentinal, then Booming Blade isn't nearly as useful. For example, my Soradin has War Caster and Sentinal. Booming Blade is basically useless for me because Sentinal already takes care of what Booming Blade is supposed to do, and I oftendo my best to get surrounded since I am the party tank.

[Willie the Duck]

People have made pretty good rules arguments. I'll focus on the psychological. I know more than a few DMs who feel that when the PCs discover a particularly effective (not necessarily overly powerful, just very effective) "exploit", they tend to resent it. Warlocks who can cast darkness only they and a few other creatures can see through, clerics discovering life-domain/goodberry shenanegans, those kinds of things. Whether they want to or not, that tends to make them 'compensate for' the PCs using those exploits. Perhaps having more opponents, or when things could fall one of two ways be more likely to have them fall against the party -- you know, to compensate for the party's "success through exploits" (regardless of how much the exploit really influences victory). Most of those previously mentioned best reasons to use BB fall into that category. Therefore, whenever it is not inherent to the build (rogue2 or goblin will use BB if they pick up a cantrip, since that's likely the point), I tend to pick GFB, so as not to seem like I am being cheesy.

[Citan]

This really depends on how your DM throws monsters at you and your your build. For example, if the DM likes to have monsters use Disengage to escape being ganged up, then Booming Blade is a great deterrent.

If the monsters stand still, gang up on you, or you have Sentinal, then Booming Blade isn't nearly as useful. For example, my Soradin has War Caster and Sentinal. Booming Blade is basically useless for me because Sentinal already takes care of what Booming Blade is supposed to do, and I oftendo my best to get surrounded since I am the party tank.
Yeah, that.

Honestly I don't see how we could say that one is "better" than the other. Best have both because they each cater to different uses. Even on people with Extra Attack, because GFB rider is automatic, whereas one can always miss his attack (great way to finish off some weak enemies). ;)

Agreed with some people here that YMMV wildly. As a player I saw all kinds of situations. As a DM too: monsters don't necessarily have any decent reason to move in the first place if they consider having the upper hand against their current target nor is there any "friendly emergency".
I even watched a fight that was supposed to be a major brawl and finally ended in sequential toe-to-toe duels between players and monsters. ^^

[Joe the Rat]

- Forced moves by your allies can also cause this effect

Point of clarification, BB activates if the creature moves, not if the creature is moved. So an ally using command, dissonant whispers, potentially goading attack or any effect that makes them take a move will cause it to trigger (the creature is initiating movement), but shoving, grapple-dragging, or spell knockback does not.

Booming Blade also deals Thunder Damage, which is rarely resisted.

[Asmotherion]

BB is usually the best option. However, there are specific builds that can make GFB just as useful, or, as stated, can render BB less useful due to specific feats for example.

A Fire Dragon Sorcerer for example that has dedicated himself to Gish (through Feats, and a Warlock dip either for Hexblade or Tomlock-Shillelagh), will profit more by having Both Cantrips and Adjusting to the Situation; When fighting a hord of Mooks, he can Quicken two GFBs to add his Cha mod twice (once from Shillelagh/Hexblade and once from GFB. In case of a more Bulky fight, he can use both, as he can't stack two BBs 'till one of them triggers, and it's more profitable for him to use GFB.

An other thing to consider is the RP and strategical aspects of each. Booming Blade, well Booms. If you're in a Dungeon and don't want to notify everyone inside that you're butchering someone in there, it's probably not the best option to use a spell that makes sound like a thunder struck; it has high potential to at the very least have people investigate. Instead, you can add some fire damage to your strike silently and nobody will notice... probably. Obviously, this depends on how much your DM considers these situations, but the more realistic a world, the more you'll have to face dilhemas like that. Even the Smell of burned hair and corpse might give you away though, if the DM gets into a lot of Detail, but it's still more discrete than the freaking sound of literal Thunder!

All in all, a real, complete Gish should have both in my oppinion, as they compliment each other well. Arguably the other two are good choices as well, perhaps not so much for damaging purposes, but definitelly for RP reasons;

Example:

You're Tied Up, or Grapled? No problem, for you're a Gish prepared for those situations: You speak an Arcane Phrase, and Spectral Blades Suround you, damaging he who dared grapled you, together with his commerades. Then, you pick up your sword, and finish him off with a BB/GFB.

The enemy caster tries to get away from you? Well, he won't have the chance. You cast lightning lure, and get him next to you again, then proceed to Quicken a Booming Blade. After Lightning Comes Thunder, or so they say...

[Throne12]

The entire purpose of booming blade is to stop the target from moving around. Not to do damage. But yeah, if your enemies already aren't doing that, then yeah, it's kinda useless. They're already doing what the typical party wants. Sticking to the tanks and not going pursuing the squishies.

But it's not needed because even if I wasn't using it they still don't move around. So they are sticking there anyway.

[Tanarii]

An other thing to consider is the RP and strategical aspects of each. Booming Blade, well Booms. If you're in a Dungeon and don't want to notify everyone inside that you're butchering someone in there, it's probably not the best option to use a spell that makes sound like a thunder struck; it has high potential to at the very least have people investigate.Nothing in Booming Blade specifies it is louder or the sound travels further than any other spell or sound of combat. Same with Shatter for that matter. And unlike Thunderwave, Knock or Thunderous Smite, which specify they can be heard out to 300 ft.

(After researching decibel scales, it looks to me like combat could probably be heard clearly at about 60-90ft. Possibly double that if it's totally silent otherwise and someone is really paying attention. I use DC 10 for hearing and recognizing combat at 60ft with normal ambient background noises, which is automatic for almost all creatures unless they're distracted, and DC 15 at 120ft. This includes Booming Blade and Shatter.)