Reducing my max HP

[ErebusVonMori]

I'm in an epic game with all first party and gitp homebrew allowed and need to drop 501 max hp to take advantage of a quirk of Temporal Wanderer.

How can this be done?

Currently I have d12s for hp.

Edit: Eternal, not Temporal Wanderer

[Boggartbae]

Dropping your CON score, holding a bunch of Unholy weapons (or weapons that are opposed to your alignment), or polymorphing yourself into a dragon and then fighting a Champion of Bahamut.

The first is the most practical. Summon a monster like a wraith, or create one with create undead, and get it to poke you with it's CON drain ability. the score will never heal, because it's drain, and your HP will drop accordingly.

Edit: create greater undead makes wraiths, but summon undead V for a vampire spawn is probably better.

[ErebusVonMori]

No way to drop my max health low enough with low CON. Hitting 0 is death remember? And I can't physically hold enough unholy weapons.

I doubt the DM would go for the dragon method.

[flappeercraft]

Assuming 3.5, Shape of Fire from ELH IIRC can permanently take away 10hp per hit unless you make a fort save.

[ShurikVch]

Any chance to get retroactively the Quick (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm#quick) trait or(/and) the Frail (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm#frail) flaw?

Book of Blood from Magic of Faerûn allow to use finger of death 1/day, "but each use in this manner permanently drains one hit point from the wielder".

[Bakkan]

You could attune yourself to a cartload of legacy weapons that have hit point loss as a cost.

If you are a kobold or could emulate one sufficiently well, you could perform the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage to lose 3 hit points.

[Hiro Quester]

Do you want to permanently or temporarily reduce your total HP?

That had better be an awesome benefit of Temporal Wanderer to be worth permanently losing that many HP. Are you sure it's worth it?

Wait... Am I missing something? With d12s, even if you have max HP per dice would get you 252 HP+21xCON bonus at level 21. So if you have +5 con that would be 357 Hp.

You must be super-epic level to want to lose 510 HP. Are you sure you have calculated that right?

Edit:
Looking at the Temporal Wanderer home-brew class here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?308317-The-Temporal-Wanderer-3-5-base-class), I'm struck by this ability:

Starting at 20th level, you gain the ability to deny the direst of futures, shifting which future you come to occupy to grant you some measure of quantum immortality. Whenever you would perish through ability damage, ability drain, negative energy, hit point damage, or death effects, you may escape that death by gaining 5 points of flux, forcing yourself into an alternate present where you possess half of your maximum hit points, no more negative levels than half of your class level, and no ability score has received damage and/or drain in excess of half of its total (ability damage is lost before ability drain). If using this ability in this way would cause you to blink out of existence through unbound form, you have pressed your boundaries too hard and vanish forever as if through the law of paradoxical compensation.

So if you face death this way, you can force yourself into an alternate present in which you have half your maximum hit points. would that help?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Shapechange into an ochre jelly. Get stabbed with a knife as many times as needed.

Voila. Not only do you get the benefits of Temporal Wanderer, but you have multiple backups if needed.

[Bronk]

Try 'bestow greater curse' to drop your con to 1?

[ksbsnowowl]

There are two monsters is one monster in Monsters of Faerûn that can cause permanent hit point loss, as can one two of the epic wights undead in the ELH.

I'll edit in details momentarily.

Edit:


Hit Point Drain (Su): The magical bite of a soul spider has a 1 in 6 chance of draining 1 hit point from the victim permanently, transferring that hit point to the spider. This hit point is part of (not in addition to) the normal 1d8+1 points of damage dealt by the bite. Also, the spider’s bite can have one of two other effects: hold person (duration 4 rounds) or reverse gravity (targeting the victim only, and also lasting 4 rounds). Whichever effect the spider chooses, the victim can make a Will save (DC 13) to avoid the effect.



Blazefire (Su): Living creatures taking damage from a lavawight’s attack find themselves ignited with blazefire; they must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC 35) or permanently lose 4 hit points. The DC is Charisma-based. The opponent must continue to save every round for the next 6 rounds (7 rounds total) to avoid being permanently drained of 4 more hit points each round. The lavawight heals the same amount of damage whenever a creature is drained of hit points, gaining any excess as temporary hit points. These temporary hit points last a maximum of 1 hour. If an opponent is slain by blazefire, only blackened ash remains of the victim. Hit points lost to the blazefire never heal naturally and cannot be magically restored—they are gone for good.



Blazefire (Su): Living creatures taking damage from a shape of fire’s incorporeal touch attack find themselves ignited with blazefire; white-hot, lambent flames cascade over their bodies, and they must succeed at a Fort save (DC 27) or permanently lose 10 hit points. The opponent must continue to save every round for the next 6 rounds (7 rounds total) to avoid being permanently drained of 10 more hit points each round. The shape of fire heals the same amount of damage whenever a creature is drained, gaining any excess hit points as temporary hit points. If the opponent is slain by blazefire, only blackened ash remains of the victim.
Hit points lost to the blazefire never heal naturally and cannot be magically restored—they are gone for good. The temporary hit points gained by the shape of fire’s blazefire last maximum of 1 hour.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Any suggestions besides mine that potentially increase his power, rather than substantially decrease it?

Also, if you could take levels in fiend of possession, you could possess a body with fewer hp available. You could also become an intelligent undead or a construct and lose your Con while gaining immunities. Ghost would be good, if you can possess other creatures (see above). You could also pay for some spellcasting or manifesting and do a permanent body swap that way. Maybe exchange a lower Con for some Su and Sp abilities, as well as a higher Str score? Or you could do a double polymorph any object for a form with suitably powerful abilities that happens to have a lower Con than you do. Maybe take the Assume Supernatural Ability feat to grab some Supernatural powers for yourself.

[shaikujin]

Other methods that at least gets something back:

Wish Ritual to change into a pair of Dvati. Each will have half the HP (plus con bonus). Advantage: player now have 2 characters with their own set of actions.

Be a Dragon and enter into as many dragon pacts as required. Sacrifice up to 50 HP a pop iirc.
Advantage: gains a spell slot each time up to level 9.

Regarding the Ochre Jelly (or Black Pudding), there might be a hitch. I was looking to abuse them for clones some time back. Their description states that each copy has half the "Current HP", not "Max HP". Leading me to interpret that each split copy still retains their original max HP and can be healed back up to full. OP will have to discuss with DM on interpretation.

[shaikujin]

Grafts also requires HP sacrifice. Get 251 miniature mighty arms grafted to a character's scalp and disguise them as braids/dreadlocks. Prehensile hair attacks!

[ErebusVonMori]

Well someone's figured out the plan to become immortal through getting my health auto reset to half my class level if I die after being hit for more than half my total hp. So drop down to one and damage ceases to be an issue.

Also I messed up, it's the Eternal Life class feature from Eternal.

And the game is level 50 quadstalt, and people are throwing around infinites like crazy so I wanted a little security vs 'now take infinite damage from infinite attacks, no save'

[MaxiDuRaritry]

If you're a manifester, power link shards from Magic of Eberron require that you either be an inspired or a kalashtar, or that you can Use Psionic Device your race reliably. Temporarily raise your effective HD through Inspire Greatness and/or lycanthropy (which you cure right after) and implant as many as you need to in order to get your hp down, as each one gives you a -1 penalty to hp. If people are throwing around infinities in your game, this shouldn't cause much of an uproar.

In relation to the above, use the rules in the MIC for combining items to add various feat-granting item abilities to one of the power link shards, then use this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?246396-Another-Addition-To-The-Tippyverse) to clone the shard a bunch of times, then implant those instead of spending a lot of money on a bunch of individual shards. Then perform a Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle on those item-granted feats to get whatever other feats you want.

Also, there are lots of ways to become immortal and nigh invulnerable, such as polymorph any objecting into an elan, or living on a timeless demiplane and astral projecting out, or using an acorn of far travel from a timeless demiplane, or becoming an illithid savant and eating the brain of a dragon ascendant or DvR 0+ deity.

[Mikemical]

There are some weapons from Weapons of Legacy that require you to sacrifice hitpoints in order to advance the weapon into it's true "awakened" form, but they're not as drastic as say, 50+ HP.

Also, how in the nine layers of hell did you get 501 HP?

[tyckspoon]

There are some weapons from Weapons of Legacy that require you to sacrifice hitpoints in order to advance the weapon into it's true "awakened" form, but they're not as drastic as say, 50+ HP.

Also, how in the nine layers of hell did you get 501 HP?

High-Epic 4-class gestalt with homebrew permitted. Frankly, they're a thin line away from just playing freeform at that point, as the mechanics kind of smudge together into the 'everybody is Pun-Pun' convergence.

@thread poster: It'd probably be more productive to find some way of just being immune to/impossible to kill with HP damage at that point. There are a number of known tricks for it, or you could wear 50 Contigent Wishes set to autorez you to full capacity when you die, or.. well, it's level 50 with 200 levels worth of class abilities to work with, there's almost certainly something you can do that's less hassle than trying to sacrifice your own HP count.

[ErebusVonMori]

Problem with that is piercing is in effect so immunities can be bypassed, also infinite numbers of attacks are already on the table so no finite number of rez would work

[Hiro Quester]

Well someone's figured out the plan to become immortal through getting my health auto reset to half my class level if I die after being hit for more than half my total hp. So drop down to one and damage ceases to be an issue.

Also I messed up, it's the Eternal Life class feature from Eternal.

And the game is level 50 quadstalt, and people are throwing around infinites like crazy so I wanted a little security vs 'now take infinite damage from infinite attacks, no save'

So your protection against infinite attacks is to have this ability repeatedly activate every time you would die? You would die an infinite amount of times in a round, but still survive with half your max hit points.

Two issues:
1. I don't see why you need to drop half your max hit points to use it. Instead of being fully damaged, each time it activates you end up in an alternate present with half your hit points. That is, at 50% damage.

2. Each time you use it you gain 5 points of flux. So against infinite attacks, you gain infinite flux. But if your flux exceeds your wisdom bonus you activate unbound form, in which you become staggered, and start blinking in and out of time, dropping one point of flux per round.

And if you gain more flux when in this "unbound form" state (which you would against infinite attacks), then you blink out of existence for 1d4 rounds.

But the quantum immortality ability contains this clause that applies here:

If using this ability in this way would cause you to blink out of existence through unbound form, you have pressed your boundaries too hard and vanish forever as if through the law of paradoxical compensation.

So if you try to use the quantum immortality ability again, when already blinking in and out of time (as you would against infinite attacks in a round), your flux would get too much and you would vanish forever.

So this can't ensure your survival against infinite attacks.

[ErebusVonMori]

I'm using Eternal Life from Eternal, not Temporal Wanderer.

[Hiro Quester]

I'm using Eternal Life from Eternal, not Temporal Wanderer.

Where is this from? I assume a home brewed class right? Can you show the context? It might help figure out your goals more easily.

[ErebusVonMori]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=13461710&postcount=22

[Westhart]

Well someone's figured out the plan to become immortal through getting my health auto reset to half my class level if I die after being hit for more than half my total hp. So drop down to one and damage ceases to be an issue.

Also I messed up, it's the Eternal Life class feature from Eternal.

And the game is level 50 quadstalt, and people are throwing around infinites like crazy so I wanted a little security vs 'now take infinite damage from infinite attacks, no save'

Think I'm in that game :smalltongue:. I threw inf attack loop in, and some other things, but have yet to find an infinite health loop, although I am now looking through something that has one :smalltongue: This game is gonna be crazy...

Assuming you are talking of
"Eternal Life (Su): From the moment that a being becomes an eternal, it is granted with the gift of life neverending. An eternal does not age and is immune to any spell or effect that would age it. The eternal need not eat, drink, or breathe in order to survive. Lastly, if an eternal with more than half of his or her total hit points would be slain (either through a large amount of damage or through a death effect or something similar), the eternal instead has his or her hit points lowered to his or her class level."

You need more, not half... Unless I missed something that is :smallbiggrin:

[Hiro Quester]

Okay. This class seems rather broken. But if your DM okayed it.....


Eternal Life (Su): From the moment that a being becomes an eternal, it is granted with the gift of life neverending. An eternal does not age and is immune to any spell or effect that would age it. The eternal need not eat, drink, or breathe in order to survive. Lastly, if an eternal with more than half of his or her total hit points would be slain (either through a large amount of damage or through a death effect or something similar), the eternal instead has his or her hit points lowered to his or her class level.

This means that if you take massive damage while your current hit point total at more than 50% of your maximum hit points, then instead of being dead, you are at Class Level hit points and alive.

So is your plan to drop your total hit points to just a bit more than your class level, so that you die easily, but always have your hit points reset at class level instead, when you would have died, but that this is still always more than 1/2 your max HPs?

If you have 20 levels in Eternal, and 21 max HP, then taking 40 damage would kill you, so your HP are instead lowered to 20 HP.

But then the next attack, can your hit points be "lowered" from 20 to 20?

What if you took 5hp damage and then a fatal amount (e.g. infinite) more. Can your HP be "lowered" from 15 to 20?

This of course would also not save you if you took an infinite number of attacks, each doing 1hp damage.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Think I'm in that game :smalltongue:. I threw inf attack loop in, and some other things, but have yet to find an infinite health loop, although I am now looking through something that has one :smalltongue: This game is gonna be crazy...If you're a psionic manifester, you could always get yourself a psicrystal, share affinity field with it, and then heal yourself. Voila. Infinite healing loop so long as the two instances of affinity field overlap. Of course, this also becomes an infinite damage loop if you're not careful, but so long as the healing in the loop is higher than the damage in the loop, you should be okay. (And yes, it's possible for one infinite to be larger than another.) Adding a shared vigor onto this grants the specified amount of temp hp an infinite number of times (but does not grant you infinite stacking temp hp.)

Also, it's pretty easy to become practically immune to damage; it's even easier for being immune to death from damage. For instance, delay death + Beastland ferocity.

[ErebusVonMori]

All valid concerns, but I have other defences in play, and we're playing at lv 50, if anything is doing less than half my health in damage they're going to have serious problems vs pretty much every other player.

[ATHATH]

What happens if someone uses one of the aforementioned things that can permanently lower your max HP to reduce your max HP to less than zero? Would that kill you?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

What happens if someone uses one of the aforementioned things that can permanently lower your max HP to reduce your max HP to less than zero? Would that kill you?It would knock you out permanently (permanent coma) unless you had Beastland ferocity/delay death or Diehard or something.

And unless you could survive it, you would, of course, die at -10 and below.

[ErebusVonMori]

As I said, I have other defences in play, one of them being if my max hp falls below a certain point I get planeshifted right out of there, I'm also a lich so lots of the methods to do it no longer work

[MaxiDuRaritry]

As I said, I have other defences in play, one of them being if my max hp falls below a certain point I get planeshifted right out of there, I'm also a lich so lots of the methods to do it no longer workTry adding astral projection to that list. Even if you die-die (probably to a blood-dyed die), you'll just zip back to your body even if you're in a dimension locked area.