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Krimm_Blackleaf
2007-08-16, 09:33 PM
Ever since today I simply don't have it in me. I hear 4e's arrival, and it fills me with cold and slows me down. I had all these ideas within me for PrC's, monsters, feats and so on but now it all looks grey and unpleasant, like they went bad in the fridge. I must feel just like 2e-er's when 3.0 came 'round, if there was as much homebrew back then as there is now. I don't want this to be another 'Garh, 4e is teh suck' thread. What I want to express is my disallusionment for the homebrew of 3.5.

Tell me if you feel the same, or opposite or neither of them.

Kyeudo
2007-08-16, 09:37 PM
You've got 8 months left to homebrew, and then you can simply convert your material over to 4th edition, should it still be relevent. We don't know that the mechanics will be too greatly different yet.

Matthew
2007-08-16, 09:40 PM
I think that I am going do a 'best of' Matthew's Homebrew and Houserules for 3e. It'll be kind of like finishing a project. I'll put it in a PDF if I find the time. I am quite into that prospect, though I might well lose the will to do it by tomorrow.

One good thing to come out of a new edition announcement is always that you can complete stuff (like collections of books). That is the great thing about 1e and 2e, you'll never have to learn any new rules or worry about some new unbalanced splat book bringing ruin to your game.

I have to admit the transition from 2e to 3e pretty much passed me by, as I always intended to continue doing what I was doing, so I never felt any deflation when 3e was announced. I don't really feel much deflation now either.

brian c
2007-08-16, 09:42 PM
I feel the same way, that was my third reaction (after "wow, 4th edition already?" and "I hope monks don't suck"). I still want to finish my setting though, I'll convert to 4e when the time comes. It's just disappointing to think that even if I finish, I'll have more work to do some other time.

dyslexicfaser
2007-08-16, 09:43 PM
There's certainly a sense of ... I don't know ... futility in regards to homebrew, for me, thanks to news of 4e's imminent arrival.

But at the same time, it's given me energy: I suddenly feel like playing 3.5 as much as I can, while there's 'still time'.

A very strange juxtaposition-y feeling.

tape_measure
2007-08-16, 09:45 PM
I'm with ay Krimm. I wasn't a big Homebrewer like afew others around here, but i did like to make things work as I needed to in games.

I'm a bit on the fence, really, though I lean more towards boycotting WotC and ripping everything I can get my hands on from the internet. One might argue that they are making new books to keep up income. One might even argue that commercialism blows on all levels. Even when it brings us new games.

I knwo I won't be making the change even months after this bastard child of a new edition comes out.

So keep on Homebrewing! Some of us still read the threads and pick out the gems. :smallbiggrin:

ranger89
2007-08-16, 09:51 PM
Homebrews must go on! My group is 100% homebrew and while I don't know if will move on to 4e, I do know that we'll continue to homebrew. It's not the rules that matter but the content, the ideas, and the spirit of the homebrew that are important. Just my two gold pieces. :smallsmile:

Decoy Lockbox
2007-08-16, 09:51 PM
I'm pretty sure there was more homebrew. I've played both 1st and 2nd edition AD&D, and let me tell ya, some things in it are impossible to play without some homebrew. Plus, monsters and NPCs were really easy to make, since you didn't have to justify anything. You could just say "this monster has 5 hit dice, thaco 14, AC 2, 2 attacks that do 1d6+2 and is worth 1200 XP. Its now ready for play" And just run it in a game and see how it goes.

Mirage_of_Deceit
2007-08-16, 09:59 PM
I'm just not going to switch over to 4E I like D&D the way it is

for now

<.<
>.>

OzymandiasVolt
2007-08-16, 10:22 PM
Losing the will to homebrew for the edition your group uses because a new edition is coming out eventually? That doesn't seem very logical.

Krimm_Blackleaf
2007-08-16, 10:27 PM
Losing the will to homebrew for the edition your group uses because a new edition is coming out eventually? That doesn't seem very logical.

No it doesn't, but that's the weird conflict of logic vs. emotion. The modron vs. the slaad on my shoulders. And I'm certain I have a C alignment.

ForzaFiori
2007-08-16, 10:29 PM
hmm...
i wonder how long it will take for the 4E books to be on limewire?

cause thats when i'll switch XD

all but...3 of my splat books are on there, out of probably close to 100.

SithLackey
2007-08-16, 10:48 PM
I say keep homebrewing. I don't homebrew myself (don't have the time), but I can say that I and most of the D&D gamers I know IRL will be staying with 3.x for a good long while. I won't take up too much space griping, but come on. Expensive rulebooks and now a SUBSCRIPTION-based service to get updates and features that make the game easier to use? I have better uses for my money that involve scissors and a big fan. So keep homebrewing. There are those of us who like to have fun and decent living conditions all at the same time.

Scissors
2007-08-16, 10:51 PM
We don't know that the mechanics will be too greatly different yet.

Hey, anybody remember THAC0? :smallamused:

SithLackey
2007-08-16, 10:57 PM
Hey, anybody remember THAC0? :smallamused:

True, but THAC0 was used by both first and second edition, if memory serves, so there is at least a possibility that the core mechanic will stay pretty much the same.

brian c
2007-08-16, 11:01 PM
Hey, anybody remember THAC0? :smallamused:

Still, the "evolution, not revolution" phrase that popped up on one of those preview articles gives the impression that it won't be too different from 3e; it's still d20 based of course also.



This all reminds me very much of the release of the 1.10 patch for diablo II. At the time I played the game a lot and also did a fair bit of modding for it. It was long awaited, and when it finally came out everyone exploded and crashed all the internets, and all the modding (homebrewing) people worried about how they would do their thing with the new edition.

horseboy
2007-08-16, 11:09 PM
True, but THAC0 was used by both first and second edition, if memory serves, so there is at least a possibility that the core mechanic will stay pretty much the same.

1 easier to hit has always been 1 easier to hit. It's just been expressed differently every edition.

There's more to a setting than just prc's and feats. Work on all the framework about who's politicking who.

Me personally? I don't play D&D enough to really care.

Leon
2007-08-16, 11:47 PM
Hey, anybody remember THAC0? :smallamused:

Remember it, how could i not its the bane of every second saturday night

4th is'nt going to slow that game down, we are just starting to to warm people upto 3e concepts and idea's and merging them in to the existing world

Tequila Sunrise
2007-08-16, 11:57 PM
Ever since today I simply don't have it in me. I hear 4e's arrival, and it fills me with cold and slows me down. I had all these ideas within me for PrC's, monsters, feats and so on but now it all looks grey and unpleasant, like they went bad in the fridge. I must feel just like 2e-er's when 3.0 came 'round, if there was as much homebrew back then as there is now. I don't want this to be another 'Garh, 4e is teh suck' thread. What I want to express is my disallusionment for the homebrew of 3.5.

Tell me if you feel the same, or opposite or neither of them.

Ummm....do you mean 'homebrew' or 'house rules'? Homebrews are pretty unaffected by edition, so I'll assume that you mean 'house rules'.

I do feel a bit of deflation at the moment, as I am an incorrigible tinkerer of rules. Just last week I submitted my first query to Dragon and now I'm thinking 'was there really a point?' If 4th edition really is all that better than 3rd, what use will all my rule tinkerings have been?

Maybe I'll just have to use the next near-year to work on my homebrew setting, as that will never become outdated.

Behold_the_Void
2007-08-17, 12:05 AM
I'm kind of irritated as well, since my big homebrew project is going to take me quite some time to complete and 4th Edition will be out by then.

Unfortunately, what will likely happen is that I'll have to convert it. So at least having the rules out and having it playable is still imperative.

brian c
2007-08-17, 12:07 AM
Ummm....do you mean 'homebrew' or 'house rules'? Homebrews are pretty unaffected by edition, so I'll assume that you mean 'house rules'.

I do feel a bit of deflation at the moment, as I am an incorrigible tinkerer of rules. Just last week I submitted my first query to Dragon and now I'm thinking 'was there really a point?' If 4th edition really is all that better than 3rd, what use will all my rule tinkerings have been?

Maybe I'll just have to use the next near-year to work on my homebrew setting, as that will never become outdated.

Um... most homebrew stuff is just new classes, monsters, races and settings that are compatible with D&D 3.5 (or whatever game). If I want to use my homebrewed stuff with 4th edition rules, I need to make adjustments in it. I don't know of many people who have homebrewed their own RPG system complete with it's own game mechanics.

Nerd-o-rama
2007-08-17, 12:21 AM
Oh my god, 4th Edition is coming out! It's the end of the freaking world! The last five years of D&D and everything relating to 3rd Edition are rendered instantly pointless! WHY GOD WHY?! Get over yourself.

Sorry, this isn't really directed at you, Krimm. I just have to vent somewhere over how insanely freaked out everyone is over this. I mean, really.

Krimm_Blackleaf
2007-08-17, 12:31 AM
Oh my god, 4th Edition is coming out! It's the end of the freaking world! The last five years of D&D and everything relating to 3rd Edition are rendered instantly pointless! WHY GOD WHY?! Get over yourself.

Sorry, this isn't really directed at you, Krimm. I just have to vent somewhere over how insanely freaked out everyone is over this. I mean, really.

If logic had taken control like I wanted it to I'd be thinking along these lines too. But the overpowering force of my own psyche has taken my mind one way and it's made me down. Don't mean to sound like a sissy, but I'm just feeling my feelings.

horseboy
2007-08-17, 12:35 AM
Um... most homebrew stuff is just new classes, monsters, races and settings that are compatible with D&D 3.5 (or whatever game). If I want to use my homebrewed stuff with 4th edition rules, I need to make adjustments in it. I don't know of many people who have homebrewed their own RPG system complete with it's own game mechanics.

How does an edition change change the fact that King Borlaran is lord of Marshdale?

Matthew
2007-08-17, 12:35 AM
"Search your feelings Krimm, you know it to be true."

SkanMan
2007-08-17, 12:43 AM
I wish i was more knowledgable about this stuff...my experiences with D&D extend only as far as my buddies improvised Dm-ing lessons and dragonlance...:smallfrown:

Deepblue706
2007-08-17, 02:18 AM
I feel less interest in homebrewing stuff for 3.5 now. But, I'm not particularly bummed - see, if 4th edition actually turns out good, I won't have to homebrew so much. I'm pretty sure people homebrew when they can't make something with what's already there. This is probably why homebrew GURPS material isn't too common.

Hopefully the developers of 4e D&D have realized this is a good route to take, and don't have to make 13 books full of nothing but prestige classes to accomplish that. If they do throw a bunch of supplements at us, I hope they have some depth to them, for a change.

dr.cello
2007-08-17, 02:57 AM
I bet it'll be similar to Star Wars: Saga Edition. It doesn't seem too likely that the two systems are going to diverge a great deal. So you'll probably see a lot of paired or similar skills (Listen/Spot/Search, Move Silently/Hide, Bluff/Diplomacy/Intimidate) get blended into one skill, etc. I don't have Saga so I don't really know quite how it works. It sounds like the system is just an even more streamlined version of the revised core, though. It'll probably be similar enough that homebrews won't require too much tweaking.

Zincorium
2007-08-17, 03:02 AM
Well, I'm still merrily continuing on my homebrew way, but that's probably because system is absolutely the last thing I design, if I even really specify it much.

All the stuff I have for 3.x will probably just need a recreation of the mechanics in 4.0, just like my 2nd edition maps, critters, NPCs and whatever saved me a lot of time when 3.0 came rolling around.

Honestly, given what I've heard about 4e, it may be easier to use a lot of my ideas.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-08-17, 03:22 AM
I can comprehend the feeling...

"Why should I put the time into making my homebrew creations when editions are comming out faster than my homebrewed stuff...

Rob Knotts
2007-08-17, 03:31 AM
Ever since today I simply don't have it in me. I hear 4e's arrival, and it fills me with cold and slows me down. I had all these ideas within me for PrC's, monsters, feats and so on but now it all looks grey and unpleasant, like they went bad in the fridge. I must feel just like 2e-er's when 3.0 came 'round, if there was as much homebrew back then as there is now. I don't want this to be another 'Garh, 4e is teh suck' thread. What I want to express is my disallusionment for the homebrew of 3.5.Reality check: you'll be playing 3.5 for at least another year.

It'll be nine months before the full set of core books will even be available, and it'll take months after that for anyone to come up with a solid homebrew setting. This means that any homebrew material you're working on now or anything you develop in at least the next nine months will be more substantial than anything anybody else will be able to cobble together for the new system as soon as it comes out. Then the only question is, will your players be more interested in creating characters for your homebrew than all the cookie-cutter out-of-the-box games for the new 4e books?
I feel less interest in homebrewing stuff for 3.5 now. But, I'm not particularly bummed - see, if 4th edition actually turns out good, I won't have to homebrew so much. I'm pretty sure people homebrew when they can't make something with what's already there. This is probably why homebrew GURPS material isn't too common.In my experience most GURPS games are homebrew, but the definition is different: rather than developing setting specific rules for characters, monsters, etc, homebrewing in GURPS consists of assembling the rules you want from all the options the published material gives you in the core books (The Basic Set).

Saithis Bladewing
2007-08-17, 03:42 AM
Well, it certainly makes me feel disillusioned with finishing my altered ruleset for my campaign setting, but at the same time, if I finish it as it is, it'll surely be easier to convert it over to 4e than to make it completely new all over again.

nagora
2007-08-17, 04:14 AM
No it doesn't, but that's the weird conflict of logic vs. emotion. The modron vs. the slaad on my shoulders. And I'm certain I have a C alignment.

Ahh, the Sladd. The Lawful Evil race that insists it's Chaotic Neutral. Classic piece of bad homebrew design that unfortunately was made semi-official in the original (and generally rubbish) Fiend Folio.

tannish2
2007-08-17, 05:10 AM
If logic had taken control like I wanted it to I'd be thinking along these lines too. But the overpowering force of my own psyche has taken my mind one way and it's made me down. Don't mean to sound like a sissy, but I'm just feeling my feelings.

{Scrubbed}

Dausuul
2007-08-17, 06:01 AM
Ever since today I simply don't have it in me. I hear 4e's arrival, and it fills me with cold and slows me down. I had all these ideas within me for PrC's, monsters, feats and so on but now it all looks grey and unpleasant, like they went bad in the fridge. I must feel just like 2e-er's when 3.0 came 'round, if there was as much homebrew back then as there is now. I don't want this to be another 'Garh, 4e is teh suck' thread. What I want to express is my disallusionment for the homebrew of 3.5.

Tell me if you feel the same, or opposite or neither of them.

Yeah, I hear you. Eager as I am for 4E's release, it does kind of cast a pall over 3.5E homebrewing.

Tequila Sunrise
2007-08-17, 10:48 AM
How much crunch have you invented for your homebrew? Unless you've statted out your homebrew's 1300 Most Important Aristocrats and Notables, I can't imagine that it'll be a big issue to convert your custom classes, feats and whatever to 4th edition rules. Or maybe it's not the quantity of crunch to convert, but that you're a fluff person and crunch is hard to deal with?

I'm having trouble seeing the issue here.

Nerd-o-rama
2007-08-17, 11:51 AM
If logic had taken control like I wanted it to I'd be thinking along these lines too. But the overpowering force of my own psyche has taken my mind one way and it's made me down. Don't mean to sound like a sissy, but I'm just feeling my feelings.
Sorry, I forgot D&D was such Serious Business. I'll leave you to your existential angst over a damn game then.

Seriously, if you know you're being foolish, stop being foolish. Humans are not slaves to our emotions. Man, that's deep. I should post it in Random Banter.

Deepblue706
2007-08-17, 01:14 PM
In my experience most GURPS games are homebrew, but the definition is different: rather than developing setting specific rules for characters, monsters, etc, homebrewing in GURPS consists of assembling the rules you want from all the options the published material gives you in the core books (The Basic Set).

Well, yeah, that's how it was intended. I meant homebrew as in making up rules that they never published. You still kinda homebrew the setting, and what rules are in it, though.

Fax Celestis
2007-08-17, 01:17 PM
Even if WotC is ceasing support of 3.5, it doesn't mean that we don't have to. Also, think of this: the answer to this question (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13449052&postcount=92) may make all your homebrewing worthwhile.

psychoticbarber
2007-08-17, 01:40 PM
Fear not, there will ALWAYS be tweaking to be done. My favourite system (Hero System) involves not so much making new rules, but picking the rules you want and need to fit your game.

Rob Knotts
2007-08-17, 01:41 PM
My favourite system (Hero System) involves not so much making new rules, but picking the rules you want and need to fit your game.Must.. resist... Hero System... homebrew rant! Must... resist...

ALOR
2007-08-17, 01:56 PM
Even if WotC is ceasing support of 3.5, it doesn't mean that we don't have to. Also, think of this: the answer to this question (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13449052&postcount=92) may make all your homebrewing worthwhile.

what was the answer they gave you to this question?

to the OP:
Keep homebrewing please. As most have stated the change to 4.0 will be slow. I think most Gamers are aprehensive about a new eddition and it will take some time for people to read the reviews before the gamer community rejects or accepts 4e.
I know when i looked at my D&D books last night i felt a little sad. I mostly brainstorm/homebrew in my head and i just couldn't think about D&D last night .

psychoticbarber
2007-08-17, 01:59 PM
Must.. resist... Hero System... homebrew rant! Must... resist...

Lol, I'm curious as to what you were going to say. It is essentially a system that is designed to be homebrewed, as bum-backwards as that sounds.

Fax Celestis
2007-08-17, 02:22 PM
what was the answer they gave you to this question?

I have not received an answer yet.

ALOR
2007-08-17, 02:23 PM
I have not received an answer yet.

please keep us updated.

Golthur
2007-08-17, 04:51 PM
I would say that, for me, I'll still homebrew for my own game, but it's pretty much ended any reasonable possibilities of publishing. Not that I was necessarily going that route, but the thought had run through my head from time to time.

:sigh: C'est la vie, I guess.

Matthew
2007-08-17, 04:57 PM
Heh, well, there's talk of Wizards releasing 3e products that can be updated for 4e, so I wonder how this will impact some of the ongoing 3e projects currently in play, such as EnWorld's War of the Burning Sky Campaign. Should be interesting to see.

Golthur
2007-08-17, 05:00 PM
Heh, well, there's talk of Wizards releasing 3e products that can be updated for 4e, so I wonder how this will impact some of the ongoing 3e projects currently in play, such as EnWorld's War of the Burning Sky Campaign. Should be interesting to see.

I wonder how they're going to pull that one off. Sidebars with 4E stats?

Hmm.

Matthew
2007-08-17, 05:02 PM
Online updates, or so I am led to believe. Looking at some of the PDFs available for 3.0, some of them have 'Updated' next to certain Prestige Classes to indicate they have been revised for 3.5.

Golthur
2007-08-17, 05:07 PM
Online updates, or so I am led to believe. Looking at some of the PDFs available for 3.0, some of them have 'Updated' next to certain Prestige Classes to indicate they have been revised for 3.5.

Hopefully, they'll be free for people who'll purchased the last 3.5 books, and not require a monthly subscription fee to access.

I would think they should support the people who'll buy those 3.5 books near the end, because that market is pretty dry as of yesterday. :smile:

ImperiousLeader
2007-08-17, 05:16 PM
I can empathize. Ever since ToM and ToB came out, I've been working on a per encounter spellcaster that sort of worries more about the Law/Chaos alignment axis with some Magic of Recluce influence. Now I'm inclined to sit back and wait.

That said, homebrewing campaign worlds should not be a problem. I've just never gone that far with them, beyond some initial ideas.

Matthew
2007-08-17, 07:28 PM
Hopefully, they'll be free for people who'll purchased the last 3.5 books, and not require a monthly subscription fee to access.

I would think they should support the people who'll buy those 3.5 books near the end, because that market is pretty dry as of yesterday. :smile:

Good point. I rather suspect they may charge for this service.

Fhaolan
2007-08-18, 09:25 AM
Actually, rather than let this get me down, I think I can use it as an excuse. To finally go and start writing down all the fluff for the campaign I've been running for almost thirty years. I've been promising myself I'd do that for the last ten years, after my original notebooks and binders were accidentally destroyed, and never seemed to get around to it.

If I can get that done, or at least the general framework for it, I'll be able to see where 4th needs homebrewing to fit into the campaign world. I've been modifying 3.x on-the-fly, and it would be nice to have a structure this time instead.

Matthew
2007-08-19, 07:36 PM
That's a good idea Fhaolan. A nice positive spin on things.