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BloodSnake'sCha
2017-10-29, 12:51 PM
Hello guys :)

I am starting a new group and we have a new player.
I want to make a character that will only help the party without doing damage(maybe a little is ok).

I was thinking on a warlock 12/chameleon 2 as my build for crafting and UMD but we will probably will not get to those levels.

I am asking for your help with making a character that will be on the "side" of the game but will make all the party members into gods(I don't like to play "main characters", I enjoy "the support"/"the wierdo" type of character more and I want to play the support this time).

If it can be a warlock I will be very happy because I love the idea of at will abilities.

If warlock will not make it I will like to play a spontaneous caster as I can't play prepared ones(I am bad enough with choosing to use my spells so choosing which spells to cast for the day is to hard for me).

I want to be a humanoid, maybe even a human.

We didn't choose yet the books we will be using and the stats.
Assume that all 3.5 books are ok, 3 party is bad, no PF and maybe magazines(GM check on every thing from there).
To much cheese will be bad as this will be our first game together.

We will be a party of 3/4 with no known rules (I have a lot of builds I made but nothing about utility and I really want to play utility).

ATHATH
2017-10-29, 01:34 PM
Be a Sha'ir. Enter the Skypledged PrC. Done.

Doctor Despair
2017-10-29, 01:42 PM
Binder is pretty good for utility and you probably won't take the spotlight from anyone, haha

Grod_The_Giant
2017-10-29, 02:18 PM
I am asking for your help with making a character that will be on the "side" of the game but will make all the party members into gods(I don't like to play "main characters", I enjoy "the support"/"the wierdo" type of character more and I want to play the support this time).
Hmm... Marshal and Bard are the two that jump out at me most, with maybe a one-level dip in Dragon Shaman for even more auras (especially the healing one). Bardic Music is significantly better than Marshal auras, though, so probably best to focus on that... maybe even use a Harmonious Knight and/or Smite to Song Paladin?

Yeah, that sounds best for you, I think... hmm... Silverbrow Human Harmonious Knight Paladin 4/War Chanter 10? Start with Dragonfire Inspiration and Weapon Focus, then grab Combat Expertise at 3rd and Song of the Heart at 6th. (If flaws are around, shift things up and add Draconic Aura). If you want, you can throw in the Holy Warrior ACF to give up your smidgeon of spellcasting for a bonus feat (Sacred Healing is good support; Power Attack would be solid as well). That gives you a fairly simple frontliner with a pretty good ability to buff your allies.

BloodSnake'sCha
2017-10-29, 02:41 PM
Be a Sha'ir. Enter the Skypledged PrC. Done.
That sounds nice but I don't like the spell mechanic and it look to much air focus.

Binder is pretty good for utility and you probably won't take the spotlight from anyone, haha
That sounds fun.

Hmm... Marshal and Bard are the two that jump out at me most, with maybe a one-level dip in Dragon Shaman for even more auras (especially the healing one). Bardic Music is significantly better than Marshal auras, though, so probably best to focus on that... maybe even use a Harmonious Knight and/or Smite to Song Paladin?

Yeah, that sounds best for you, I think... hmm... Silverbrow Human Harmonious Knight Paladin 4/War Chanter 10? Start with Dragonfire Inspiration and Weapon Focus, then grab Combat Expertise at 3rd and Song of the Heart at 6th. (If flaws are around, shift things up and add Draconic Aura). If you want, you can throw in the Holy Warrior ACF to give up your smidgeon of spellcasting for a bonus feat (Sacred Healing is good support; Power Attack would be solid as well). That gives you a fairly simple frontliner with a pretty good ability to buff your allies.
Unfortunately I can't find information about Harmonious Knight Paladin, where can I find it?
From your explanation it do sound like a nice option but I may need to change it to a non-good Paladin oath or non-lawfull oath because I hate the Paladin oath.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2017-10-29, 02:52 PM
Just go Beguiler (PH2), with a single level of Mindbender at your 6th character level. You'll have tons of skills, plenty of utility spells, and almost nothing that deals damage. Get Versatile Spellcaster and Heighten Spell and you'll get early access to the next higher level of Beguiler spells, and be able to pick spells one level higher with Advanced Learning. That with the Mindbender dip to delay the later Advanced Learnings to an even numbered level allows you to pick a 2nd, 5th, 7th, 9th, and 9th level spell for those. I'd get Ray of Stupidity, Shadow Form, Shadow Evocation, Shadow Conjuration, and Superior Invisibility for those. Also be sure to pick up Mindsight in Lords of Madness after you get that Mindbender level. Spell Focus in Enchantment and/or Illusion, Dazzling Illusion, and Unsettling Enchantment are also good feat choices.

If you want to go the item creation route, keep in mind that two or more characters can cooperatively craft an item as long as their combined abilities meet all the item's prerequisites. You don't actually need to have access to every spell yourself if there's a Cleric or Wizard in your party who can contribute the spell portion of an item's prerequisites.

TalonOfAnathrax
2017-10-29, 02:53 PM
A Wizard or Druid can be a good support PC, in that he can use battlefield control to debilitate enemies and make your fighter's job much easier. Clerics using Divine Metamagic can pile in tons of buffs on themselves or fellow party members (Persist Spell is the best feat ever for them) starting at mid levels.

Marshal is a good support class, as is Cleric (or Healer if you're deliberately gimping yourself).

Bard is obviously good at support. Bardic music and their spell selections, as well as their good skill points, make them good at buffing others and doing stuff like being the party face.

One level of Dragon Shaman makes for great support to everyone. Your GM may accept with the reading that the Draconic Aura feat gives you the Dragon Shaman's Vigor Aura, in which case you can just take that feat. Seriously, it's fantastic. From levels 2 to 10, it's a huge deal! And after that it's still helpful.

Beguiler could be good as support if you want. Good skills and illusion magic make for a potent support PC who can't actually do much killing himself.

Warlock is a good support character: take utility invocations, max charisma and take debuffs and Diplomacy/Bluff/SenseMotive, and then use Use Magic Device as much as you can. It's not always an optimal build, but it's fun to play!

Grod_The_Giant
2017-10-29, 03:36 PM
Unfortunately I can't find information about Harmonious Knight Paladin, where can I find it?
From your explanation it do sound like a nice option but I may need to change it to a non-good Paladin oath or non-lawfull oath because I hate the Paladin oath.
It's a set of substitution levels in Champions of Valor web enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a). It looks like you should be able to apply them to the Paladin of Freedom, though-- the variant doesn't touch any of the levels/features the sub levels do, and Milil is NG, so having a CG follower works out. Don't forget to buy a Badge of Valor or two, and to look into how your DM interprets Words of Creation.

MaxiDuRaritry
2017-10-29, 05:22 PM
My favorite utility build is factotum 1 (with Able Learner) / shaper psion 5 / constructor 9 (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625b) / anarchic initiate 1 / random manifesting PrC 4 (or just more psion). Psion powers (especially focusing on metacreativity) grant insane flexibility and utility, and factotum grants lots of skills for even more.

On gestalt, I also sprinkle in two levels of totemist and a few levels in initiator classes (especially crusader 1 for healing and swordsage for movement and stealth). Oh, and at least two more levels in factotum.

ben-zayb
2017-10-29, 05:36 PM
I'd second Beguiler, possibly going Unseen Seer to grab Divine Insight for more skillmonkeying, then Shadowcraft Mage for further utilities by getting access to battlefield control spells.

SCM also allows you access to the spell Shalantha's Delicate Disk, which pretty much makes potions of your low-level spells (such Divine Insight or Shadow-version Mage Armor) or grenades of your Enchantment and battlefield control spells. This also means any unused spell slots of level 6 or higher for the day won't get wasted

Nifft
2017-10-29, 11:18 PM
Seconding Grod's recommendation of Bard.

Even a straight & simple Bard 20 can be awesome.

Read up on them here: http://www.joshuad.net/new-bard-handbook/

You can be awesome if you feel like it, but by default you can make everyone else even more awesome.

BloodSnake'sCha
2017-10-30, 01:36 AM
Just go Beguiler (PH2), with a single level of Mindbender at your 6th character level. You'll have tons of skills, plenty of utility spells, and almost nothing that deals damage. Get Versatile Spellcaster and Heighten Spell and you'll get early access to the next higher level of Beguiler spells, and be able to pick spells one level higher with Advanced Learning. That with the Mindbender dip to delay the later Advanced Learnings to an even numbered level allows you to pick a 2nd, 5th, 7th, 9th, and 9th level spell for those. I'd get Ray of Stupidity, Shadow Form, Shadow Evocation, Shadow Conjuration, and Superior Invisibility for those. Also be sure to pick up Mindsight in Lords of Madness after you get that Mindbender level. Spell Focus in Enchantment and/or Illusion, Dazzling Illusion, and Unsettling Enchantment are also good feat choices.

If you want to go the item creation route, keep in mind that two or more characters can cooperatively craft an item as long as their combined abilities meet all the item's prerequisites. You don't actually need to have access to every spell yourself if there's a Cleric or Wizard in your party who can contribute the spell portion of an item's prerequisites.
Thank you, I will try it.

A Wizard or Druid can be a good support PC, in that he can use battlefield control to debilitate enemies and make your fighter's job much easier. Clerics using Divine Metamagic can pile in tons of buffs on themselves or fellow party members (Persist Spell is the best feat ever for them) starting at mid levels.

Marshal is a good support class, as is Cleric (or Healer if you're deliberately gimping yourself).

Bard is obviously good at support. Bardic music and their spell selections, as well as their good skill points, make them good at buffing others and doing stuff like being the party face.

One level of Dragon Shaman makes for great support to everyone. Your GM may accept with the reading that the Draconic Aura feat gives you the Dragon Shaman's Vigor Aura, in which case you can just take that feat. Seriously, it's fantastic. From levels 2 to 10, it's a huge deal! And after that it's still helpful.

Beguiler could be good as support if you want. Good skills and illusion magic make for a potent support PC who can't actually do much killing himself.

Warlock is a good support character: take utility invocations, max charisma and take debuffs and Diplomacy/Bluff/SenseMotive, and then use Use Magic Device as much as you can. It's not always an optimal build, but it's fun to play!
As i wrote before, I can't play a prepared spell caster because I am bad with spells and stuff limited per day.
I may try a Beguiler and I like the warlock.

It's a set of substitution levels in Champions of Valor web enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a). It looks like you should be able to apply them to the Paladin of Freedom, though-- the variant doesn't touch any of the levels/features the sub levels do, and Milil is NG, so having a CG follower works out. Don't forget to buy a Badge of Valor or two, and to look into how your DM interprets Words of Creation.
Thank you, your build is awesome

My favorite utility build is factotum 1 (with Able Learner) / shaper psion 5 / constructor 9 (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625b) / anarchic initiate 1 / random manifesting PrC 4 (or just more psion). Psion powers (especially focusing on metacreativity) grant insane flexibility and utility, and factotum grants lots of skills for even more.

On gestalt, I also sprinkle in two levels of totemist and a few levels in initiator classes (especially crusader 1 for healing and swordsage for movement and stealth). Oh, and at least two more levels in factotum.
I check it out


I'd second Beguiler, possibly going Unseen Seer to grab Divine Insight for more skillmonkeying, then Shadowcraft Mage for further utilities by getting access to battlefield control spells.

SCM also allows you access to the spell Shalantha's Delicate Disk, which pretty much makes potions of your low-level spells (such Divine Insight or Shadow-version Mage Armor) or grenades of your Enchantment and battlefield control spells. This also means any unused spell slots of level 6 or higher for the day won't get wasted
thank you, this is nice.

Seconding Grod's recommendation of Bard.

Even a straight & simple Bard 20 can be awesome.

Read up on them here: http://www.joshuad.net/new-bard-handbook/

You can be awesome if you feel like it, but by default you can make everyone else even more awesome.
I will check it out.