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Wheaton's Whelp
2017-10-31, 05:43 PM
Recently made a Rogue character for an upcoming game, with the plan that it would choose the Arcane Trickster archetype. Occasionally, when planning a build I will simulate some 1-on-1 gladiatorial combat to test it out in combat. In my mind the two combatants are raised into a large colosseum, starting 30 ft. apart from each other. And I must say the arcane trickster is very strong when it reaches level 14 and gains access to the Haste spell and Versatile Trickster class feature. Disclaimer: I did choose competitors well situated for the build i.e those who do not have great AoE or magical abilities, both of which would have decimated Pod. I'll give the play-by-play below for those interested in how the gladiator did.

Character: Pod the Arcane Trickster (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=1335005)
27 point by build at start: [8, 16, 12, 16, 10, 13] Eladrin: +2 Dex/+1 Int
Test Lvl: 14
HP= 90 [9+13+ 13d8(2)(5)(6)(8)(6)(6)(6)(4)(6)(7)(4)(4)(4)]
ASI's: 4th- Actor Feat, 8th- +2 Dex, 10th- +2 Dex, 12th- +2 Int [8, 20, 12, 18, 10, 14]
AC= 12 + Dex (Studded Leather Armor)= 17 + 2 (w/ Haste) = 19 + 5 (w/ Shield reaction if used) = 24

Fight #1: T-Rex (CR 8)
Fight #2: Storm Giant (CR 13) [Magic Weapons Added: +1 Studded Leather Armor, +1 Rapier, Boots of Speed, Cloak of Protection]

Initiative Rolls: Pod: d20(13)+5= 18 T-Rex: d20(14)+0

Round #1:
Pod:
Move 30 ft. back (60 ft. away)
Casts Mirror Image [slots remaining: 4/2/2/-]
T-Rex:
Dashes 60 ft. up to Pod

Round #2:
Pod:
Action: Haste (AC+2, Extra Action) [Slots Remaining: 4/2/1/-]
Bonus Action: Disengage
Extra Action: Dash 60 ft. passed T-Rex
T-Rex:
Dashes 60 ft. back up to Pod

Round #3:
Pod:
Action: Mage Hand on the T-Rex
Bonus Action: Versatile Trickster (ADV on turn)
Extra Action: Attack: [d20(19)+5 or d20(6)+5] = Hit Damage: d8(8)+5+7d6(1)(6)(6)(2)(6)(4)(6)= 44 Damage (T-Rex HP: 136-44= 92)
T-Rex:
Multiattack: Bite & Tail
Bite: d20(17)+10= 27 against d20(8) [Mirror Image] = Destroys Mirror Image (2 remaining)
Tail: d20(15)+10= 25 against d20(17) [Mirror Image] = Destroys Mirror Image (1 remaining)

Round #4:
Pod:
Action: cast Mirror Image (Recoup lost Mirror Images) [Remaining Slots: 4/1/1/-]
Bonus Action: Versatile Trickster for ADV
Extra Action: Attack: d20(2)+10 or d20(12)+10= Hit Damage: d8(3)+5+7d6(1)(1)(1)(1)(4)(1)(3)= 20 Damage
(T-Rex HP: 92-20= 72)
T-Rex:
Multiattack: Bite & Tail
Bite: d20(8)+10= 18 against d20(13) [Mirror Image] = Destroys Mirror Image (2 remaining)
Tail: d20(17)+10= 27 against d20(20) [Mirror Image] = Destroys Mirror Image (1 remaining)

Round #5:
Pod:
Action: cast Mirror Image (Recoup lost Mirror Images) [Remaining Slots: 4/0/1/-]
Bonus Action: Versatile Trickster for ADV
Extra Action: Attack: d20(16)+10 or d20(16)+10= Hit Damage: d8(4)+5+7d6(2)(4)(3)(1)(5)(5)(3)= 32 Damage
(T-Rex HP: 72-32= 40)
T-Rex:
Multiattack: Bite & Tail
Bite: d20(20)+10= 18 against d20(8) [Mirror Image] = Destroys Mirror Image (2 remaining)
Tail: d20(2)+10= 12 against d20(14) [Mirror Image] = Misses Mirror Image (AC=10+DEX=15) (2 remaining)

Round #6:
Pod:
Bonus Action: Versatile Trickster for ADV
Action: cast Booming Blade Attack: d20(15)+9 or d20(3)+9 = Hit
Damage: d8(4)+5+2d8(7)(8)+7d6(3)(5)(3)(2)(5)(2)(3)= 47 damage = Dead T-Rex

Result= Pod wins without getting hit once...

To help Pod a little in this fight I gave him some magic items, but all items which could easily be obtained by Lvl 14: +1 Studded Leather Armor, +1 Rapier, Boots of Speed, and Cloak of Protection. Additionally, prior to being raised into the colosseum Pod was about to active the Boots of Speed, and cast Haste (-1 number to rounds) No available rocks laying around, so no rock toss from the giant.

Initiative Rolls: Pod: d20(2)+5= 7 Giant: d20(15)+2= 17

[b]Round #1:
Giant:
Move 50 ft. back
Lightning Strike: Pod Dex Save d20(20)+6 vs DC 17 = No damage taken
Pod:
Action: cast Mirror Image [slots remaining: 4/2/1/-]
Move into the giants face (Dash with Boots of Speed)

Round #2:
Giant:
Multiattack: 2 greatsword attacks
1st: Attack: d20(12)+14= 26 against d20(12) [Mirror Image]= Destroys Mirror Image (2 Mirror Images Remaining)
2nd: Attack: d20(3)+14= 17 against d20(2) [Pod]= Miss! (AC=21)
Lightning Strike Recharge: d6(4)
Pod:
Action: cast Mage Hand
Bonus Action: Versatile Trickster
Extra Action: Attack: d20(17)+11 or d20(4)+11= Hit Damage: d8(5)+6+7d6(6)(6)(1)(4)(5)(1)(2)= 36 damage
(Giant HP: 230-36= 194)

Round #3:
Giant:
Multiattack: 2 greatsword attacks
1st: Attack: d20(5)+14= 19 against d20(5) [Pod]= Miss! (AC=21)
2nd: Attack: d20(2)+14= 16 against d20(8) [Mirror Image]= Destroys Mirror Image (1 Mirror Image Remaining)
Lightning Strike Recharge: d6(3)
Pod:
Action: cast Mirror Image [slots remaining: 4/1/1/-]
Bonus Action: Versatile Trickster
Extra Action: Attack: d20(5)+11 or d20(1)+11= Hit (Barely!) Damage: d8(6)+6+7d6(2)(6)(3)(4)(1)(1)(1)= 30 damage
(Giant HP: 194-30= 164)

Round #4:
Giant:
Multiattack: 2 greatsword attacks
1st: Attack: d20(8)+14= 22 against d20(17) [Mirror Image]= Destroys Mirror Image (2 Mirror Image Remaining)
2nd: Attack: d20(2)+14= 16 against d20(11) [Mirror Image]= Destroys Mirror Image (1 Mirror Image Remaining)
Lightning Strike Recharge: d6(4)
Pod:
Action: cast Mirror Image [slots remaining: 4/0/1/-]
Bonus Action: Versatile Trickster
Extra Action: Attack: d20(15)+11 or d20(20)+11= Hit (Crit!) Damage: d8(5)+6+7d6(5)(3)(2)(4)(1)(6)(1)= 33 damage + Crit Damage: d8(7)+7d6(2)(4)(5)(4)(3)(3)(5)= 26 damage: Total = 59 damage
(Giant HP: 164-59= 105)

Round #5:
Giant:
Multiattack: 2 greatsword attacks
1st: Attack: d20(9)+14= 23 against d20(9) [Mirror Image]= Destroys Mirror Image (2 Mirror Image Remaining)
2nd: Attack: d20(6)+14= 20 against d20(19) [Mirror Image]= Destroys Mirror Image (1 Mirror Image Remaining)
Lightning Strike Recharge: d6(6)= Recharged
Pod:
Bonus Action: Versatile Trickster
Extra Action: Attack: d20(14)+11 or d20(10)+11= Hit Damage: d8(1)+6+7d6(5)(3)(6)(4)(2)(1)(4)= 33 damage
(Giant HP: 105-33= 73)
Action: Booming Blades Attack: d20(5)+9 or d20(4)+9= Miss! (I forgot booming blades does additional thunder damage, and storm giants are immune)

Round #6:
Giant:
Lightning Strike: Pod Dex Save d20(8)+6 vs DC 17 = Fail (Half damage from Evasion feature)
Damage: 12d6(5)(6)(5)(4)(2)(3)(1)(6)(2)(4)(6)(6)= 50/2= 25 damage (Destroys last Mirror Image)
Con Save for Haste: d20(16)+2 vs DC 13= Success
(Pod HP: 90-25= 65)
Pod:
Bonus Action: Versatile Trickster
Extra Action: Attack: d20(7)+11 or d20(4)+11= Hit Damage: d8(5)+6+7d6(4)(3)(6)(6)(3)(6)(4)= 43 damage
(Giant HP: 73-43= 30)
Action: Booming Blades Attack: d20(1)+9 or d20(8)+9= Hit Damage: d8(8)+6= 14 damage (I forgot booming blades does additional thunder damage, and storm giants are immune)
(Giant HP: 30-14= 16)

Round #7:
[i]Giant:[i]
Multiattack: 2 greatsword attacks
1st: Attack: d20(1)+14= 15 = Miss!
2nd: Attack: d20(12)+14= 26 = Hit! Damage: 6d6(6)(2)(6)(3)(6)(3)+9= 35 damage
**Pod Reaction** Uncanny Dodge: 35/2 = 17 damage
Con Save for Haste: d20(14)+2 vs DC 10 = Success
(Pod HP: 65-17= 48)
Lightning Strike Recharge: d6(1)
Pod:
Bonus Action: Versatile Trickster
Extra Action: Attack: d20(3)+11 or d20(16)+11= Hit Damage: d8(4)+6+7d6(5)(4)(5)(1)(4)(3)(4)= 36 damage
(Giant HP: 30-36= Dead Storm Giant)

Pod Wins!!

I've never played an Arcane Trickster before so I'm excited to see what they can do! I would love to hear any suggestions you have for the build as well. I know for certain I don't want to do the Find Familiar- Owl strategy (feels like an exploit to me), but open to other options.

Chance404
2018-01-10, 04:49 AM
I'm playing an AT in my game and I enjoy it. The character is about a year playing time old, started at level 3 and at 9 currently. (We play milestone exp). The build didn't turn out as in first had envisioned, but sometimes that's how it goes when you role-play thru the levels.

Mazul
Half orc Rogue 4 Arcane trickster/ Cleric 1 (trickery) / Ranger 4 (hunter). (Started 2 rogue/1 cleric)

Because of players dropping, it became Mazul and his Goliath Barbarian companion Skycleaver. I can't speak enough about how that one level of trickery cleric has kept us alive. Blessings of the trickster on an already sneaky barbarian was gravy, and bless was a game changer early on. I was able to get ahold of mithiral half plate early on, and wound up settling on a rapier / shield fighting style, since usually it was skycleaver and mazul always trying to flank enemies. I went rogue 4 so I could get my feat (lucky) and Arcane Trickster. My free spell was Shield, which combined with luck has changed a few fights. I went ranger after that because of how things role-played out and for more combat power,(Duelist fighting style, favored enemy humanoids, hunters conclave) and some of their spells.

Best magic item that makes this build shine though is a Ring of Spell Storing. I keep a few shield spells in there because it removes the somatic component from casting it, thus I can have my weapon and shield out and get +5 ac as reaction. On top of all the other fun that you can have with that ring.

I think that build would hold it well in some of your 1v1 play testing fyi. :)

Kobard
2018-01-10, 07:05 AM
If you don't have a wizard in the party, and even if you do, you may want to consider taking two levels (or more, as desired) in the wizard. It really expands your tool kit a lot and gives you a lot of extra utility (e.g., more spell slots, more spells, a spell book, ritual spells, etc.). There are a number of good wizard dips available (e.g., divination, illusion, etc.). Since you are an eladrin, you are also eligible to dip into the Bladesinger subclass, which is a pretty hefty boon for rogues:+10 speed, a bonus to AC and concentration checks equal to Int, and advantage on Acrobatics checks. You will lose out on your 4th level AT spells if you dip a few levels, but campaigns rarely, if ever, reach those levels. You could also go up to Wizard 7 if you still want 4th level spells.

Biggstick
2018-01-10, 02:36 PM
Your Storm Giant encounter was so heavily weighted in your favor that I don't really think that can be called a gladitorial combat. You were able to pre-cast Haste and the Storm Giant had no rocks to throw. That "combat" is un-sat, and shouldn't be given any value. How/why didn't the Storm Giant (who are actually pretty smart) change their tactics throughout the combat? Grappling/knocking you prone would have been extremely easy for such a Huge creature, and would be an extremely powerful tactic against such a small creature.

All that aside, Arcane Trickster is a great archetype. As another above mentioned, I'd definitely consider a two level dip into Wizard. Specifically I'd be looking to Divination, Bladesinger, War Magic, and Conjuration. The first three for obvious combat useage of their level 2 features (of which War Magic is insanely good for an AT trying to maintain concentration on buffs like Haste), while the last one is just a personal favorite of mine for Arcane Tricksters. Being able to make any small tool as an Action is just a very powerful ability in the right hands.

As for your stats, is there a reason you have 13 Charisma? Multiclassing perhaps? Either way, I'd suggest you run a set-up more akin to this.

8
15 +2
13
15 +1
12
8

At Rogue level 4, take the Elven Accuracy (I can't remember the name of it off the top of my head, but it's from Xanathar's). This will push you to 18 Dexterity. At Rogue levels 8 and 10, pump Dexterity with another +2 and grab Resilient Constitution (whichever order you prefer). This will put you in a situation to have Saving Throw proficiency in all three major saving throws once you get to Rogue 15. At some point your AT should multiclass into Wizard for at least two levels (three if you want 2nd level rituals). If you plan on running Haste most often with this character, I'd highly recommend War Magic as your Wizard school of magic. The bonus to Saving Throws, plus all of your Saving Throw proficiencies mean you'll rarely lose concentration on spells, and have interesting mechanical choices when deciding what reaction to use while in combat. You also get the sweet ribbon ability of adding your Intelligence modifier to your Initiative checks, meaning you go first even more often.

I just looked back again at your post and see that you were picking up the Actor feat. Are you planning on playing the face for the party? Do I sense some Disguise Self shenanigans with this character? if so, you can ignore my comment on re-arranging your stats. I just recommended that swap to maximize both damage potential and increase survivability.

Vispiliox
2018-01-15, 11:03 PM
I'm playing a level 7 arcane trickster and it's awesome! I'm using a longbow with Sharpshooter, so I have a 600ft range and ignore 1/2 and 3/4 cover. I'm pretty much always stealthing, so it's rare when I'm not rolling with advantage and getting sneak attack damage. I'm taking Elven Accuracy at 8, so I'll essentially be rolling 3d20 for advantage attacks and hopefully getting a lot more crits (plus it gets me to 20 dex).

I did take Find Familiar for the owl, but I rarely use it for sneak attacks. I've found it most useful for scouting ahead when there are multiple passages. I've only used it in fights, when I feel like there's a threat and nobody in the party is attacking it. For instance, a dangerous magic user and everyone is fighting it's minions. Oh and I'm pretty much using all Illusion spells.

I'm planning to take Spider Climb for my next any class spell. It seems like it would be a lot of fun stealthing up walls and on ceilings shooting a bow. Although, I have considered the possible need to swap out Find Familiar for Feather Fall. :)


If you don't have a wizard in the party, and even if you do, you may want to consider taking two levels (or more, as desired) in the wizard. It really expands your tool kit a lot and gives you a lot of extra utility (e.g., more spell slots, more spells, a spell book, ritual spells, etc.).
I'm taking some wizard levels after 9. Magical Ambush is a must before making the switch though. I'm planning to do War Magic. At this point, I'm just trying to decide if I take Rogue 10 for the ASI Feat (which would probably be Fey Magic to get to 18 Int with a free Misty Step spell) or go ahead and take the Wizard levels to make sure I get them before we wrap up our campaign.

JellyPooga
2018-01-16, 12:03 AM
Tip No.1 - Intelligence isn't really worth investing in unless you're going to use it. If all you're doing with your spell slots is buffing yourself with Mirror Image, Haste and the like, then dump that Int harder than a Barbarian; you can afford to, even more so than others, because you're proficient in Int Saves. If you do plan on actually using your Int for spellcasting at some point, then you can be very good at it with Magical Ambush, so it's definitely worth considering. On the other hand, it's also worth considering putting a few more points into Wisdom; failing Wis Saves hurts a lot.

Tip No.2 - Medium Armour Proficiency and War Caster are solid choices for an Arcane Trickster, allowing you to put your AC into the low to mid 20's (Note that while Medium Armour Proficiency appears to offer basically the same AC as studded leather and 20 Dex on the surface, the potential is fair bit higher because magic shields +1/2/3 are a thing), as well as boosting your concentration checks (which AT's are typically really bad at due to lack of proficiency in Con Saves and unfortunately low Con). War Caster also lets you use GFB/BB as an OA; always nice. Resilient (Con) is also a very solid choice. You may wish to consider taking these before pumping Int, or even Dex, above 16.