accessing higher level spells

[leegi0n]

Is there a way (feat(s), etc.) to give a bard access to higher level spells, sooner?

I guess what I'm asking is can they cast spells as if they were a higher level? (such as level 10 character casting level 6 spells, or the like)

- Thank you all -

[Calthropstu]

You can apparently take feats to fake having higher level spells for early entry into prestige classes, but apart from scrolls and other items, I don't know of anything that will actually give you higher level spell slots.

[Mordaedil]

Is there a way (feat(s), etc.) to give a bard access to higher level spells, sooner?

I guess what I'm asking is can they cast spells as if they were a higher level? (such as level 10 character casting level 6 spells, or the like)

- Thank you all -

Yes.

First of all, possess 16 charisma. Get to level 7 as a bard, and enter into the sublime chord prestige class.

At 3rd level you can cast level 6 spells.

[leegi0n]

Yes.

First of all, possess 16 charisma. Get to level 7 as a bard, and enter into the sublime chord prestige class.

At 3rd level you can cast level 6 spells.


I don't understand how you can cast level 6 spells at lvl 3 SC. Could you explain?

Thank you -

[Blue Jay]

I don't understand how you can cast level 6 spells at lvl 3 SC. Could you explain?

Thank you -

Did you look at the class's level progression? That's just what the class does: it increases a bard's spell progression into a full 9-level progression, at the cost of skill points and Bardic Music progression. And you get your first 6th-level spell at your 3rd class level.

[leegi0n]

I see it now. Apologies.

SC looks like a potent class, to be sure. What is the class Lyric Thaumaturge all about? Or Virtuoso? Is there a combo of these that makes for a better build than sticking with SC?

[death390]

on the off chance you don't want to prestige into the arguably better Sub. Chord there is a cheesy way to get acces to higher level spells early.

Heighten Spell metamagic, metamagic cost reducers (easy metamagic, easymetamagic(easy metamagic), and if dragon subtype [use silverbrow human] use practical metamagic), versatile spellcaster, and extra slot. other ways is to use class Metaphysical spell shaper (req lvl 3 spells) and ability burn yourself for "free" metamagic cost reducer, just get lvl 2 spells and use versatile spellcaster. it also has a flat -1 reducer at its lvl3. note this is in an awkward book "Book of Erotic Fantasy" despite not really having to do with its source material.
NOTE: you dont need ALL of these just Heighten spell and a selection of them.

if you use heighten spell on any spell you can arguably increase it beyond what you can normaly cast and since a heightened spell is treated as a spell of its heightened level no matter which slot is used to cast it it is a spell of its augmented level. note that you technically can gain acces to 8th level spells this way even though you have no spells of that level to possibly know.

be prepared for a book to the head though.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Yes.

First of all, possess 16 charisma. Get to level 7 as a bard, and enter into the sublime chord prestige class.

At 3rd level you can cast level 6 spells.
Nitpick: you need 10 levels of Bard (or other) before Sublime Chord-- it requires 13 ranks of Listen.


I see it now. Apologies.

SC looks like a potent class, to be sure. What is the class Lyric Thaumaturge all about? Or Virtuoso? Is there a combo of these that makes for a better build than sticking with SC?
Lyric Thaumaturge is "all about" getting better at spellcasting. You trade skill points and music improvements for extra spell slots and spells known. Virtuoso is basically just "bard plus." It gives you pretty much everything the base class does, but with a new set of music options. If you're thinking about combining them, you're right on the money, since they flow into each other pretty easily: Something like Bard 6/Lyric Thaumaturge 4/Sublime Chord 2/Virtuoso (advancing Sublime Chord casting) is a pretty classic powered-up Bard build.

[Doctor Despair]

Nitpick: you need 10 levels of Bard (or other) before Sublime Chord-- it requires 13 ranks of Listen.


.

Response to nitpick: it is trivial to get more ranks in a skill than the cap normally allows.

E.g. inspiring greatness then using psychic reformation

E.g. polymorphing into a dusk giant, opening a can of worms (literally and figuratively), eating a bunch or them to gain temporary HD, then using psychic reformation

E.g. doing either of them a moment or two before levelling up (more cheesy and metagamey, to be sure)

E.g. taking Bloodline levels at any time

[Eldariel]

I generally recommend going simple Bard 9/Virtuoso 1/Sublime Chord 2/Virtuoso +8. The big key is, Virtuoso advances your Inspire Courage unlike Sublime Chord and also has 6+Int skills (Sublime Chord is 4+Int). Thus you get Bard 18 Inspire Courage (full +4) complete with an almost maximized amount of Bardic Music uses and all the best songs (I take Bard 9 to grab Inspire Greatness). Lyric Thaumaturge doesn't really offer that much you'd miss though it's not a bad class. I prefer Inspire Greatness though. Most importantly, you take Virtuoso 1 before Sublime Chord so you lose the casting level before Sublime Chord. This guarantees you full progression; losing even a single level of Sublime Chord puts you painfully behind the standard progression (where you're already playing catch-up). Thus I definitely recommend taking Virtuoso 1 before level 11 (first you can normally take Sublime Chord on).


Response to nitpick: it is trivial to get more ranks in a skill than the cap normally allows.

E.g. inspiring greatness then using psychic reformation

E.g. polymorphing into a dusk giant, opening a can of worms (literally and figuratively), eating a bunch or them to gain temporary HD, then using psychic reformation

E.g. doing either of them a moment or two before levelling up (more cheesy and metagamey, to be sure)

E.g. taking Bloodline levels at any time

I'd say those are pretty high up the abuse ladder though. It's much easier and less controversial to get higher level slots than your maximum for instance. Generally I wouldn't go beyond Favored + Primary Contact in a game (outside a game where system abuse is the point; skill cap breaking doesn't really break the system as much as the effort it requires would entail - basically just for early entry).

[Grod_The_Giant]

Response to nitpick: it is trivial to get more ranks in a skill than the cap normally allows.
Yeeeeaaaahhhh, that's all high order cheese. That's not even "overpowered option most DMs will ban" advice, that's "tortured RAW readings that'll get you laughed out of the room" TO, with a side order of "how the **** do bloodlines work?"

[death390]

i have a E6 campaign were my DM was like, i need your help to keep all of them alive. go ahead and break the game.

had to scrap my first one though, artificer 6 making things at about 5% base cost was too broken :P.

[Psyren]

Yeeeeaaaahhhh, that's all high order cheese. That's not even "overpowered option most DMs will ban" advice, that's "tortured RAW readings that'll get you laughed out of the room" TO, with a side order of "how the **** do bloodlines work?"

I laughed out loud in my room, so thanks for that.

[Endarire]

And if you're going Bard8/X1/Virtuoso1/Sublime Chord2/Full CastingX, I advise you take a level of Marshal for the Motivate Dexterity aura. Give your group +your CHA mod to initiative and all other DEX-based checks!

[rel]

If you don't mind the higher level spells being divine a savage bard can prestige into ur priest without much trouble.

Ur priest has an accelerated spell progression meaning if you take your first level of ur priest at 6 your divine casting exceeds a straight bards arcane casting by level 9 and you get 9th level cleric spells by level 16.

[Rebel7284]

Shadowcraft Mage will let you cast higher level spells than your normally could with enough metamagic reduction. As a bonus, very flavorful on bard.

[Mordaedil]

Nitpick: you need 10 levels of Bard (or other) before Sublime Chord-- it requires 13 ranks of Listen.
Yeah, I really need to finish up my website, prerequisites aren't properly programmed into it yet, so it just showed spell level and bardic music ability so far.

Maybe eventually.

[Thurbane]

For a spontaneous caster, Versatile Spellcaster (as already mentioned) is usually the key.

Will need Heighten Spell, or possibly a Bloodline feat, as well. Set list casters (Beguiler etc) arguably only need the Versatile Spellcaster feat.

In regards to Sublime Chord, don't forget the skill reqs of the class as well, so short of shape-changing into a Barghest or Dusk Giant to gain some artificial HD, or contracting then being cured of Lycanthropy, you're generally not able to enter it before ECL 11.

[Doctor Despair]

For a spontaneous caster, Versatile Spellcaster (as already mentioned) is usually the key.

Will need Heighten Spell, or possibly a Bloodline feat, as well. Set list casters (Beguiler etc) arguably only need the Versatile Spellcaster feat.

In regards to Sublime Chord, don't forget the skill reqs of the class as well, so short of shape-changing into a Barghest or Dusk Giant to gain some artificial HD, or contracting then being cured of Lycanthropy, you're generally not able to enter it before ECL 11.

Totally forgot about Lycanthropy. Good catch.

[RoboEmperor]

1. Fiendish Codex II: Make a deal with a devil to get you a level 6 bard spell slot.
2. Get the minimum ability score required to cast level 6 bard spells.
3. Add a level 6 spell to your spell known somehow (malconvoker for planar binding for example)
4. Cast the level 6 spell.

Doing this method has many drawbacks, mainly that you need to sell your soul to the devil, and getting spells added to your spell known is very, very hard, highly restrictive, and requires a **** ton of resources.