A mindflayer PC? Hmmmmm

[Dankus Memakus]

So my friends and I were having a discussion the other day about mindflayers (which due to the deaths of a few beloved party members are the most hated and researched enemy for my party) and we stumbled across a bit of knowledge. Someone found a bit of lore on the internet (possibly not canon) that said the mind flayers have a prophecy where one day they will try to convert someone to a mind flayer or whatever but the transformation would go wrong and the creature would physically become a mindflayer but the hosts brain would reject the parasite and stay essentially the host gaining few if any psionic ability. This brought up the topic of a mind flayer PC. Our questions were:

1. Would it keep its original races stats since the transformation failed?
2. How would it not be murdered on sight?
3. How would mind flayers react?
4. would he have odd quirks?
5. If he was a good cleric would his god forsake him for eating his fallen enemies brains?

This of course is all speculation and I'd just like to hear the internets opinion on this creature and any other questions that may be raised.

[SaA]

you could Treat it like a sub race :O

and treat it like the sub races for teifling where they swap out the stat bumps

and then replace a few of the abilities

first off let him chose a free cantrip from the Mystic Cantrips

then replace one of the key features of the race, for example the human feat, or the Tieflign Infernal legacy and give him like a racial spell list, and have like Disguise Self in the list and have have charges based on your intelligence modifier so for example 3 perday without using spell slots, for those interactions with people, along with some other spells, like how the drow have a spell list , probably make them all illusion spells, or pick some from the mystic, and make them once per long rest

also give them telepahty by default

[the_brazenburn]

1. Would it keep its original races stats since the transformation failed?
2. How would it not be murdered on sight?
3. How would mind flayers react?
4. would he have odd quirks?
5. If he was a good cleric would his god forsake him for eating his fallen enemies brains?

All right, my opinions:

1. It would keep some of the stats, but not others. It would gain the physical attributes of an illithid, but keep the mental stats and trainings of its original race.

2. Honestly, it probably would. The only way to avoid that is by scaring the @%&^$# out of villagers so they don't think they can handle him.

3. Mind flayers are much, much smarter than your average villager. They'd be able to tell that he wasn't a "real" mind flayer. I can see them kidnapping him and trying to "finish the job" by converting him fully.

4. Of course he'd have quirks. Possibly there'd be occasional lapses in which dead mind flayers possess his body and speak through him, or a direct link to an elder brain.

5. It depends on the god (and probably the foe). Let me know which deity he follows, and I can give you a better idea.

[Dankus Memakus]

you could Treat it like a sub race :O

and treat it like the sub races for teifling where they swap out the stat bumps

and then replace a few of the abilities

first off let him chose a free cantrip from the Mystic Cantrips

then replace one of the key features of the race, for example the human feat, or the Tieflign Infernal legacy and give him like a racial spell list, and have like Disguise Self in the list and have have charges based on your intelligence modifier so for example 3 perday without using spell slots, for those interactions with people, along with some other spells, like how the drow have a spell list , probably make them all illusion spells, or pick some from the mystic, and make them once per long rest

also give them telepathy by default

Telepathy is a good idea. I thought about making them a variant human with specific mindflayer-y options for the feat and INT boost and something else. So maybe almost like a subrace of the variant human.

[nickl_2000]

2. How would it not be murdered on sight?


Would a normal surface dweller even know what a mind flayer was? Sure, they may murder anything they don't understand on sight (due to experience of all different things trying to murder them), but would they recognize a mind flayer for a mind flayer?

[PhoenixPhyre]

I actually made one of these for a player. He basically had to keep a (magical) disguise up whenever he was around NPCs. I gave him strongly weakened versions of the iconic abilities (a weak telepathy, a weak mind blast (based on the breath weapon)).

The fluff was that the parasite entered into a symbiosis (accidentally) with the mind, so he had a split personality and used "we" most of the time. In my setting, mind flayers don't need to eat brains, but they do have a strong hunger for brains. He settled for the brains of fresh-killed enemies (squicking out his party, but...).

In the end, due to some plot contrivances that character (after the campaign ended) became the new God of Magic. So the visual appearance of mind flayers isn't too concerning now--only the actions. They're still KOS because 90+% worship a demon prince that they claim created them, one who's into involuntary biological "art".

[Dr.Samurai]

So my friends and I were having a discussion the other day about mindflayers (which due to the deaths of a few beloved party members are the most hated and researched enemy for my party) and we stumbled across a bit of knowledge. Someone found a bit of lore on the internet (possibly not canon) that said the mind flayers have a prophecy where one day they will try to convert someone to a mind flayer or whatever but the transformation would go wrong and the creature would physically become a mindflayer but the hosts brain would reject the parasite and stay essentially the host gaining few if any psionic ability.
This being is known as the "Adversary" and is believed to bring about the end of the Mind Flayer race/empire.

1. Would it keep its original races stats since the transformation failed?
If the "failure" is that it is a mind flayer in body only, but it keeps its brain/mind, then it probably would keep its mental scores.

2. How would it not be murdered on sight?
It would be. The mind flayers are aware of this prophecy (which actually might be an event that already occurred since mind flayers are from the future) and look for signs of illithid that are... off. One of the things they look for is mannerisms kept from the previous being. So if a mind flayer has a tic like cracking its knuckles or something, it would be suspected of being the Adversary and would be brought in for interrogation/reconditioning/execution.

3. How would mind flayers react?
Suspicion. And probably violence if they thought it was too risky to try and condition.

4. would he have odd quirks?
Yes, that's one of the taboos of Illithid society for precisely this reason.

Also, newly created illithids are exposed to conditioning stones that emit... I don't quite remember. Either messages on repeat or messages from the Elder Brain. And the community is always listening to the Elder Brain. So anyone that isn't a mind flayer will have to deal with constant telepathic contact with the Elder Brain, and being scrutinized often. They'll probably have odd quirks getting used to the tentacles, telepathy, etc.

5. If he was a good cleric would his god forsake him for eating his fallen enemies brains?
Don't know. Depends I suppose.

[Lombra]

Maybe treat it like an half-dragon?

[Dr.Samurai]

Hmm... reading some of the other responses I see now that you're talking about a mind flayer PC on the surface world. I expect people would flee in terror or kill it in terror.

This of course is all speculation and I'd just like to hear the internets opinion on this creature and any other questions that may be raised.
I thought a cool idea for the adversary would be a high level telepath caught by the illithid and submitted to ceremorphosis, but at the last second uses Mind Switch to switch minds with the tadpole just as it is being inserted through the ear. Physiological processes would take over and when the mind is replaced by the tadpole's mind, the telepath's mind would be restored to the body, but an illithid's body. This would be our hero, the Adversary, an agent among the illithid working from within to destroy them.

[Dankus Memakus]

This being is known as the "Adversary" and is believed to bring about the end of the Mind Flayer race/empire.

This was Also debated in my group. Would he genocide all mindflayers or reveal the truth about/wipe out the elder Brains systematically freeing mindflayers

[Dr.Samurai]

This was Also debated in my group. Would he genocide all mindflayers or reveal the truth about/wipe out the elder Brains systematically freeing mindflayers
Depends on the character of the... character, lol.

Either of those would be anathema to most mind flayers. Mind flayers, as I suspect you know, expect to join the Elder Brain upon death in some psionic hivemind genius intellect. Not all will react well to the idea that the Elder Brains are lying (see reactions to Alhoons and other Illithid that reject union with the Elder Brain).

I suspect most people would see illithids simply as monsters and try to destroy them. How would the Adversary have the power to do that? I don't know. But I would think the Adversary would try to destroy the mind flayers.

Unless... he could figure out how to reprogram the mind flayers during their conditioning to make them creatures that work for the betterment of the world...

[Danielqueue1]

I thought a cool idea for the adversary would be a high level telepath caught by the illithid and submitted to ceremorphosis, but at the last second uses Mind Switch to switch minds with the tadpole just as it is being inserted through the ear. Physiological processes would take over and when the mind is replaced by the tadpole's mind, the telepath's mind would be restored to the body, but an illithid's body. This would be our hero, the Adversary, an agent among the illithid working from within to destroy them.

well this is brilliant. mind if I steal it?

[Dankus Memakus]

Depends on the character of the... character, lol.

Either of those would be anathema to most mind flayers. Mind flayers, as I suspect you know, expect to join the Elder Brain upon death in some psionic hivemind genius intellect. Not all will react well to the idea that the Elder Brains are lying (see reactions to Alhoons and other Illithid that reject union with the Elder Brain).

I suspect most people would see illithids simply as monsters and try to destroy them. How would the Adversary have the power to do that? I don't know. But I would think the Adversary would try to destroy the mind flayers.

Unless... he could figure out how to reprogram the mind flayers during their conditioning to make them creatures that work for the betterment of the world...

I'm not sure but I think a devotion paladin mind flayer would be fun, or the UA redemption paladin going and trying to preach to the people of the land and bring them to the light

Edit: by people I actually mean horrible tentacle men

[Easy_Lee]

I would fluff the character's appearance to be a bit disfigured: enlarged cranium with veins showing and all of that good evil genius stuff. And I'd give a non-combat feature to represent the psionic.

Ghostwise Halfling have Silent Speech as a racial trait: one-way telepathic communication with a language requirement and a range of 30 feet. Silent Speech is an excellent fluff feature for one whom mindflayers experimented upon.

[Unoriginal]

So my friends and I were having a discussion the other day about mindflayers (which due to the deaths of a few beloved party members are the most hated and researched enemy for my party) and we stumbled across a bit of knowledge. Someone found a bit of lore on the internet (possibly not canon) that said the mind flayers have a prophecy where one day they will try to convert someone to a mind flayer or whatever but the transformation would go wrong and the creature would physically become a mindflayer but the hosts brain would reject the parasite and stay essentially the host gaining few if any psionic ability. This brought up the topic of a mind flayer PC. Our questions were:

First of all, I must say this "prophecy" doesn't seem to have come from any official material, and it's kinda pretty weird to make a prophecy on what's essentially nothing but a kind of peculiar biological malfunction.

Furthermore, the Illithid larva *starts* with eating the persons brain whole and taking its place, so I'm not sure how the transformation would continue with the larva dead.

So I'm tempted to say it wasn't from any published material. That being said:


1. Would it keep its original races stats since the transformation failed?

Physical stats would be modified, not mental ones.


2. How would it not be murdered on sight?

Mind Flayers knows malfuntions can happen when the larva take over, and the Elder Brain closely monitor all mind flayers, so unless there is a MASSIVE distraction that makes everyone unable to deal with the guy during the whole duration of the transformation, and then somehow fail to deal with him while he's left extremely weak by said transformation.


3. How would mind flayers react?

Kill the person, autopsy their body to find out what happened.


4. would he have odd quirks?

Depends, do you define "might have horrible trauma for having been captured and transformed in a very painful fashion against your will" as "odd quirk"?


5. If he was a good cleric would his god forsake him for eating his fallen enemies brains?


Depends of which god you're talking about, I suppose, but good gods are generally tolerant about involuntarily circumstances forcing you to do something.

That being said, mind flayers have no reason to eat the brains of fallen enemies (at least, no more reason than eating any of their other organs). Mind Flayers require the brains of *living*, sapient beings, unless the brain is specially extracted and kept in a special magic container that keeps it "alive enough".


On another note:

It is possible for Illithid to *not* be horribly evil monsters. Even Mind Flayers have outcasts, and some of those outcasts aren't horrible people.

In "Out of the Abyss", one of the NPCs you can meet is a lawful neutral Mind Flayer.

No, I'm not saying "muh Mind Flayer is Drizz't", I'm just saying that it's technically possible to have a Mind Flayer assist a group of adventurers without the whole "failed birth" thing.

[SaintRidley]

Pretty sure the Adversary is mentioned in the 2e Illithiad. I don't have my copy handy to double check, but that's where I remember it originating.

[Asmotherion]

There is also the Aspiring Alhoon/Lich to-be trope. An outcast, who has dedicated himself to the Arcane, and banished because he rejected Psionics. He aspires to archive immortality not by joining the elder brain, but by his own Arcane Power, and he has developed a superior sence of Self, detaching himself from the Hivemind. Wile neutral evil, he has his own reasons to help the PCs because he sees oportunity to access more arcane power through them, than working against them.

Wile it will not work so well in a good party, it can work in a neutral or evil party very well. If there is a mixture of alignments in the party, he can work with a mixture of psionic abilities and enchantment spells (perhaps specialising in the enchntment school) to get around his occasional feeding needs (still done on enemies though, just covering up for it with spells), and feed on animal brains the rest of the time.

[Unoriginal]

Mind Flayers can't feed on non-sapient animal brains.

Well, they can eat it, but it'd give them nothing more than if an human did the same, and wouldn't satisfy their needs.

[Sigreid]

Mind Flayers can't feed on non-sapient animal brains.

Well, they can eat it, but it'd give them nothing more than if an human did the same, and wouldn't satisfy their needs.

The dietary needs would be a challenge, but I believe RAW magic initiate for goodberry would satisfy their needs.

[Dr.Samurai]

well this is brilliant. mind if I steal it?
Thanks! Of course you can! I've always liked the idea of a set a stories to sort of mirror the Drizz't stories, but from the perspective of an Illithid Inquisitor. A LN enforcer of the illithid community. I envision him fighting threats to the community from other Underdark creatures (beholders, abeloths, drow) but mostly fighting threats from within like alhoons and arcane illithids. I saw the Adversary being the "big bad" of the stories, from the perspective of the inquisitor. I thought it'd be a cool campaign to run, where the players are trying to hunt down the Adversary.

I'm not sure but I think a devotion paladin mind flayer would be fun, or the UA redemption paladin going and trying to preach to the people of the land and bring them to the light

Edit: by people I actually mean horrible tentacle men
I'm picturing someone on their knees, crying, looking for absolution, and a tentacle tucking the hair behind their ear, another wiping away a tear, as the Adversary assures them they can be redeemed.

An illithid oath of redemption paladin would be cool :smallbiggrin:. If I remember correctly, a similar character is given as an example in the 3rd edition Book of Exalted Deeds. In fact, I almost want to say it was an Illithid with one of the sacred vow feats...

First of all, I must say this "prophecy" doesn't seem to have come from any official material, and it's kinda pretty weird to make a prophecy on what's essentially nothing but a kind of peculiar biological malfunction.

Furthermore, the Illithid larva *starts* with eating the persons brain whole and taking its place, so I'm not sure how the transformation would continue with the larva dead.

So I'm tempted to say it wasn't from any published material.
The Adversary is definitely an established part of Illithid lore. I think it was the Illithiad as SaintRidley mentioned, or in Dawn of the Overmind. I believe in that case, it was a potion that someone took that prevented their minds from being replaced by ceremorphosis.

Here's what wikipedia has to say on it:

"When an Illithid undergoes ceremorphosis, it can occasionally take on some elements of the absorbed host creature's former mind, such as mannerisms. This typically manifests as a minor personality feature, such as a nervous habit or reaction (e.g., nail-biting or tapping one's foot), although the process that determines the type and number of traits so inherited appears to be stochastic. Some adult Illithids have even been known to hum a tune that its host knew in life. Usually, when a mind flayer inherits a trait like this, it keeps it a closely guarded secret, because, were its peers to learn of it, the Illithid in question would most likely be killed. This is due to an Illithid legend of a being called the "Adversary". The legend holds that, eventually, an Illithid larva that undergoes ceremorphosis will take on the host's personality and memory in its entirety. This Adversary would, mind and soul, still be the host, but with all the inherent abilities of an Illithid."

[Dankus Memakus]

Thanks! Of course you can! I've always liked the idea of a set a stories to sort of mirror the Drizz't stories, but from the perspective of an Illithid Inquisitor. A LN enforcer of the illithid community. I envision him fighting threats to the community from other Underdark creatures (beholders, abeloths, drow) but mostly fighting threats from within like alhoons and arcane illithids. I saw the Adversary being the "big bad" of the stories, from the perspective of the inquisitor. I thought it'd be a cool campaign to run, where the players are trying to hunt down the Adversary.

I'm picturing someone on their knees, crying, looking for absolution, and a tentacle tucking the hair behind their ear, another wiping away a tear, as the Adversary assures them they can be redeemed.

An illithid oath of redemption paladin would be cool :smallbiggrin:. If I remember correctly, a similar character is given as an example in the 3rd edition Book of Exalted Deeds. In fact, I almost want to say it was an Illithid with one of the sacred vow feats...
"[/I]
It would also be fun to NOT play the adversary but play his followers. LG illithid order of paladins who are trying to save their race by redeeming them