Can you Dump WIS as a Ranger?

[Edgerunner]

I know you can play a Low INT Eldritch Knight and I was wondering if you could play a Low WIS Ranger and how bad it will hurt you down the line?

Is there a site that tells you how many Ranger Spells require the Target to make a Save vs Your character's WIS?

[EvilAnagram]

You can, but you would be weakening an important save for which you don't have proficiency, hurting important skills for your role in the party, and losing access to really good spells.

Anyways, to start out take Hunter's Mark, Goodberries, and whatever utility spells you want. Eventually take Spike Growth and Darkvision. At high levels take Swift Quiver.

[Specter]

Sure, but I wouldn't recommend it.

- Most of your AoE spells require a save, so they won't be as good for you.
- Two critical ranger skills, Survival and Perception, come from WIS.
- WIS is a vital saving throw.

Consider instead having an average WIS (10-12).

[HermanTheWize]

Sure, but I wouldn't recommend it.

- Most of your AoE spells require a save, so they won't be as good for you.
- Two critical ranger skills, Survival and Perception, come from WIS.
- WIS is a vital saving throw.

Consider instead having an average WIS (10-12).

double this

[Spacehamster]

You can but would not want to go with lower than 12 myself.

[Joe the Rat]

It is an interesting thought exercise.

Spellwise, here's what'll be affected:

lvl1
Animal Friendship (Save)
Cure wounds (no bonus to roll)
Ensnaring Strike (Save)
Hail of thorns (Save on Secondary Damage)

lvl 2
Cordon of Arrows (Save)
Spike Growth (DC to notice spikes)

lvl3
Conjure Barrage (Save)
Lightning Arrow (Save on Secondary)
Wind Wall (Save on summon damage)

lvl4
Grasping Vine (Save)

lvl5
Conjure Volley (Save)

So all of your stealth, detection, movement, and enhancers are unaffected. You are simply not going to be able to use your spells on offense, save hunter's mark and the creature conjure spells. You could build a viable ranger on that.

That said, Wisdom is a key stat to some of your primary roles - scout, tracker, and all-in-all outdoorsy dude. You can do some of this by using spells (You've got some decent detect options), but that is a rather limited resource to rely on.

Amusingly, most of your class features do not rely on Wisdom - it's mostly stealth and movement.


So overall, you end up something like an Eldritch Knight in selection - you are avoiding offensive spell picks, but in this case many of your options would replace utility abilities you are neglecting rather than enhancing your combat role. The key difference is that the Eldritch Knight is at core a fighter, a class that does not rely on Int to function, whereas a Ranger's role often relies on Wisdom.

Also, below 13, you cannot multiclass - and a low-Wis ranger would be an interesting martial addition to other builds. (Rogue, for example, could benefit from the stealth enhancers, and could expertise Perception or Survival to improve your scouting function).

[WickerNipple]

You certainly can, but as others have said I wouldn't.

In some ways it depends on what you want out of Ranger and whether you plan to stay one for long term. My current Ranger only went up to lvl 5 before going on to other classes, and doesn't use Wis for any of the spells he casts. That said, I consider Perception and Wis Saves more important than spellcasting for deciding whether to dump.

People regularly dump Int on EKs because Int does basically nothing else for their character. This is never true for Wisdom.

[PeteNutButter]

The real question is why would you want to?

Did you roll stats and don't have any good ones to spare?

Are you trying to save points for some MAD multiclass? Because you still need a 13 in wisdom to do that.

Wisdom is the stat that no one wants to really dump, unless they just want a break from playing their character every other session as their character suffers from the inevitable charm, fear, paralyze, etc.

[Dimcair]

You certainly can, but as others have said I wouldn't.

In some ways it depends on what you want out of Ranger and whether you plan to stay one for long term. My current Ranger only went up to lvl 5 before going on to other classes, and doesn't use Wis for any of the spells he casts. That said, I consider Perception and Wis Saves more important than spellcasting for deciding whether to dump.

People regularly dump Int on EKs because Int does basically nothing else for their character. This is never true for Wisdom.

Doesn't that mean your Wis was at least 13?

[GlenSmash!]

Doesn't that mean your Wis was at least 13?

This. Multiclassing rules require Rangers to have at least 13 Dex and 13 Wis to multiclass into or out of Ranger.

I always have at least 14 on my Rangers.

[ZorroGames]

Yes but before I would dump wisdom below 10 I would look at dumping CH, Possibly IN, and possibly (maybe) ST if I was going Robin Hood ranger; and not multiclassing into something needing that stat (WI out, CH/IN/ST in) at 13.

[Dalebert]

- WIS is a vital saving throw.


So much this! Even my sorlock has a 14 wisdom and resilient (wisdom) as a feat. Just the fact that perception is based on it is big too. I try not to take that skill on every single character just because it's so important in the game but I find it challenging.

[Citan]

I know you can play a Low INT Eldritch Knight and I was wondering if you could play a Low WIS Ranger and how bad it will hurt you down the line?

Is there a site that tells you how many Ranger Spells require the Target to make a Save vs Your character's WIS?
"Yes, you can".
"No, you should probably not". ;)

Is how I would sum up.
Many people already explained in detail why this is usually a bad idea, so i'll just recall in bullet point.
- works against "scout / scavenger" role that Rangers usually get from tradition (although Favored Enemies / Terrain can somewhat mitigate that).
- prevents multiclassing (well, depends on what you call "dump", but usually on this forum "dump" = 8-10 in stat).
- makes several spells, including some of the Ranger exclusive ones, borderline useless.

Now, there are probably a few niche cases in which I could see a Ranger dumping WIS (meaning, a single-class Ranger).
Basically all niche cases of Rangers that want to "free" ASIs and starting stats for some reasons, like...
- Getting much better Constitution.
- Getting a better overall stat array.
- Ganging up on feats.
While still getting all Ranger goodies.
For example, it should be noted that Ranger is the only class that can be STR based, get multiattack, yet still get Evasion, in a single package.

You could also imagine a Ranger that would prefer to be a heavy martial (Heavily Armored, HAM) and go Whirlwind. It's not optimal, but why not?
Or a charismatic Ranger that would lead troops of Conjured Animals after Inspiring them (Inspiring Leader thanks to higher CHA).
Or an intelligent Ranger that takes care of everything adventure-wise (Goodberry, Pass Without Trace, plus all rituals from Ritual Caster: Wizard)

Or a Ranger that just wants to quickly gang up on feats and don't expect to reach that high a level (like wanting to be a Wood Elf with 18 DEX, Sharpshooter and Mage Slayer at level 12, or 18 STR, Defensive Duelist and Dual Wielder).

Basically, if your party (and yourself of course) is okay with you gimping your "utilitarian half" and your iconic magic, AND you don't care about multiclassing, then it's safe to dump WIS. :)

[WickerNipple]

Doesn't that mean your Wis was at least 13?

Yes it's a 14. As I said, I wasn't recommending dumping it, just saying I don't use it for any spells.

[Tanarii]

People regularly dump Int on EKs because Int does basically nothing else for their character. This is never true for Wisdom.
I assume you mean "... because ain't Int does basically nothing else for their specific character build." They've chose to lock out magical ranged attacks at-will & AoE damage intentionally by dumping Int. As well as typically a 4-5 point swing on Int checks (usually Int 8 to Int 16-18), which is useful, unless the DM is going out of their way to make Int checks unnecessary. (ie using 'one check to rule them all' for Lore checks, only ever using them for Lore checks to remember tidbits, etc)

A ranger gives up much less on the offensive spells front by having a low Wis, since their intended use for spells is primarily utility anyway, not offense. They do give up a little more on the Ability checks front, since yes, Wisdom (Perception) is still the most common check around in almost every game. And Wis saving throws are more valuable than Int, no doubt.

Really it's apples and oranges. An EK is hurting their subclasses extra combat capabilities in a huge way, and non-combat less so. A ranger is hurting their extra non-combat capabilities in a huge way, and combat less so. So it kinda depends how much combat vs non-combat you expect to see, as well as what kind of combat & non-combat.

[GlenSmash!]

Yes it's a 14. As I said, I wasn't recommending dumping it, just saying I don't use it for any spells.

Not even spike growth? Even my melee Rangers throw down the occasional spike growth. Watching enemies fail their wisdom saving throw and eat 2d4 damage per 5ft of movement is brutal.

[djreynolds]

Could you just play a battlemaster or barbarian or rogue instead?

A battlemaster can grab hex with magic initiate, similar to hunters mark.

To love the ranger, you must love their spell list. You can really shape the battlefield.

To keep these spells relevant, your spell DC needs to be higher. 14-16 wisdom at higher levels.

I feel if you're questioning having lower wisdom score, a fighter/rogue with outlander background might be a better choice.