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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next 5e Wizard Rework



AgentMaineSIGMA
2017-11-02, 12:37 PM
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BklWdXDGe7ibfaYIqBbDtV9xKA3yUexoq1SCK-b-0sc

So, I hate the original form of 5e’s Wizard. They know the most spells in the game, but never have the chance to actually use them. Couple that with the fact they don’t have any “resource” like other classes (Rages, Sneak Attack, Channel Divinity, etc.), and a pretty boring capstone ability, and there was basically never a reason to play them. So I changed them. Level 20 abilities are now dependent on arcane traditions (kinda like paladins), and they have a spendable resource via the new Arcane Charge. So yeah. Any suggestions or criticisms are always welcome.

AgentMaineSIGMA
2017-11-02, 12:38 PM
Also. Because I didn’t have room, the table goes from left to right:
Level
Proficiency bonus
Features
Cantrips known
Spell slots 1-9

Deleted
2017-11-02, 12:55 PM
Spells are the OG resource in D&D when it vomes to classes so I'm not sure why you think the wizard doesnt have resources.

JBPuffin
2017-11-02, 01:02 PM
Spells are the OG resource in D&D when it vomes to classes so I'm not sure why you think the wizard doesnt have resources.

Other classes have other options - whether significantly more class features (cleric, bard), a bunch of choices with features (warlock), or an additional resource (sorcerer). Admittedly, I'd rather play a wizard than sorcerer most days, since the class features wizards do get are pretty baller...but I can see why you might want to change that.

AgentMaineSIGMA
2017-11-02, 01:14 PM
Spells are the OG resource in D&D when it vomes to classes so I'm not sure why you think the wizard doesnt have resources.

It’s because spells aren’t unique to Wizards. Only barbarians get rages. Only clerics and paladins get channel divinity. Only warlocks get invocations. Every class has something that only they get. The closest Wizards have to that in base 5e is Arcane Recovery. Compared to some of the flashier stuff, it really falls behind.

JNAProductions
2017-11-02, 01:40 PM
Whoa! Recovery is WAY TOO GOOD.

That's 30 spell levels EVER SHORT REST at level 20. And even before then, it's crazy good.

AgentMaineSIGMA
2017-11-02, 06:24 PM
Whoa! Recovery is WAY TOO GOOD.

That's 30 spell levels EVER SHORT REST at level 20. And even before then, it's crazy good.

Fair! I forgot to rebalance that feature for the new class. 😅

GalacticAxekick
2017-11-02, 08:16 PM
It’s because spells aren’t unique to Wizards. Only barbarians get rages. Only clerics and paladins get channel divinity. Only warlocks get invocations. Every class has something that only they get. The closest Wizards have to that in base 5e is Arcane Recovery. Compared to some of the flashier stuff, it really falls behind.If I understand, you've noticed that the Wizard has the fewest unique mechanics of all spellcasters, and so you're trying to distinguish it?

Because that's totally fair! But I think you've made the mistake of buffing the Wizard rather than changing it. If you want to give it access to new mechanics, they either need to replace or penalize tools the Wizard already has, or else you're taking an average class and making it above average.



Another concern of my is that none of these new mechanics thematically relate to the Wizard: they're just new mechanics for the sake of new mechanics.

Everything about the Cleric—their casting system (prepared from list common to all deities), spell list (specialized by domain) and features (all divine interventions)—reflects how Clerics borrow spells from a god.

Everything about the Sorcerer—their casting system (few known, but modified at will), excess cantrips, and features (all supernatural traits) reflects how Sorcerers learn and cast magic naturally and intuitively.

And so on down to the Wizard, whose casting system (prepared from a book), spell list (inclusive of any spells the player can discover) and features (all specializations on some kind of spellcasting) reflect how Wizards learn and cast magic through dedicated study.

Expulsion doesn't relate to the Wizard's study. It relates to spellcasting in general. There's no reason why Bards, Clerics, Druids, Sorcerers and Warlocks shouldn't have access to the same thing, thematically. If anything, it should be a 1st level spell.

And Shift doesn't relate either. Mechanically, just a great tool for any prepared caster. There's no reason why Clerics and Druids shouldn't have access (and in my opinion, it's more thematically fitting for a Cleric, whose god could easily provide the new tools, than for a Wizard, who can't suddenly unstudy one set of spells and recall another set).

AgentMaineSIGMA
2017-11-02, 11:04 PM
If I understand, you've noticed that the Wizard has the fewest unique mechanics of all spellcasters, and so you're trying to distinguish it?

Because that's totally fair! But I think you've made the mistake of buffing the Wizard rather than changing it. If you want to give it access to new mechanics, they either need to replace or penalize tools the Wizard already has, or else you're taking an average class and making it above average.



Another concern of my is that none of these new mechanics thematically relate to the Wizard: they're just new mechanics for the sake of new mechanics.

Everything about the Cleric—their casting system (prepared from list common to all deities), spell list (specialized by domain) and features (all divine interventions)—reflects how Clerics borrow spells from a god.

Everything about the Sorcerer—their casting system (few known, but modified at will), excess cantrips, and features (all supernatural traits) reflects how Sorcerers learn and cast magic naturally and intuitively.

And so on down to the Wizard, whose casting system (prepared from a book), spell list (inclusive of any spells the player can discover) and features (all specializations on some kind of spellcasting) reflect how Wizards learn and cast magic through dedicated study.

Expulsion doesn't relate to the Wizard's study. It relates to spellcasting in general. There's no reason why Bards, Clerics, Druids, Sorcerers and Warlocks shouldn't have access to the same thing, thematically. If anything, it should be a 1st level spell.

And Shift doesn't relate either. Mechanically, just a great tool for any prepared caster. There's no reason why Clerics and Druids shouldn't have access (and in my opinion, it's more thematically fitting for a Cleric, whose god could easily provide the new tools, than for a Wizard, who can't suddenly unstudy one set of spells and recall another set).

I can't defend Expulsion as well as I'd like to in all honesty. The way I think of Wizards, they have the greatest understanding of magic relative to any other class. All the Arcane Charge options reflect that. Expulsion is supposed to be them manipulating raw magical force into an unfocused damaging form. Shift reflects how well studied they are: the smarter they are, the more fundaments of spellcasting they comprehend, hence why they can prepare new spells on the fly. Recovery is basically the exact same but now competes with an attack and a versatility boost for use.

GalacticAxekick
2017-11-03, 12:02 AM
I can't defend Expulsion as well as I'd like to in all honesty. The way I think of Wizards, they have the greatest understanding of magic relative to any other class. All the Arcane Charge options reflect that. Expulsion is supposed to be them manipulating raw magical force into an unfocused damaging form. Shift reflects how well studied they are: the smarter they are, the more fundaments of spellcasting they comprehend, hence why they can prepare new spells on the fly. Recovery is basically the exact same but now competes with an attack and a versatility boost for use.I totally agree that Wizards understand magic better than any other class. But casting raw magical force in an unfocused, destructive form doesn't sound like it takes understanding; casting refined magical energy in focused, constructive or transformative forms does. In fact, Evocation Wizards specifically learn to refine their most unfocused, destructive spells!

Ideally, I think changing the traits of a spell (casting time, range, components, duration, save, damage, slot cost, etc) would be the best way to represent the Wizard. But because the Sorcerer already does this (Font of Magic, Metamagic) we'll need another distinguishing mechanic.

Idea one: a Wizard might have cunning defenses against familiar spells, thanks to to their in-depth knowledge. Maybe you could allow them to make a reaction against a spell they've seen before (to move out of the way, take cover, disrupt the spell, or otherwise evade/thwart it), or allow them to cast a lesser version of Counterspell that represents disrupting but not completely snuffing out the rival spell.

Idea two: a Wizard might be able to invent new spells or cantrips using elements of known ones. These might be learned alongside normal spells, or prepared from scratch each morning. This might be complicated to balance, but you could assign a point value to damage dice/range increments/effects/durations/etc and rule that cantrips/spells of a certain level can only be worth a certain number of points.

Idea three: Wizard is to a Sorcerer what a Fighter is to a Barbarian, so she might a "casting style". You could tie these to components, for example:

Somatic Casting requires gestures but no noise or material (which changes very little compared to usual 5e gameplay).
Vocal Casting requires noise but no gestures or material (which might affect touch spells, spell attacks, rules for cover, etc).
Material Casting requires material, but few gestures and no noise (which is effectively alchemy, allowing "spells" to be handed off to others, saved for later, damaged or lost)
Mental Casting requires no components at all (which might come with increased risk of broken concentration)




Regarding Shift, I do see what you mean, but I think it's a bit of a thematic stretch. If someone asked for a feature that represents the Wizard remembering spells they didn't prepare, it would almost certainly add prepared spells partway through the day or cast a spell that was not prepared, not replace prepared spells. Again, I think the feature as you wrote it more fitting for the Cleric, who is borrowing spells and who could at any time be lent a different set by their deity. The lord giveth and taketh, y'know?

In other words, I really do like the feature. It's a fun mechanic. But I wouldn't want it for the Wizard anymore than I'd want Sneak Attack for the Fighter.

AgentMaineSIGMA
2017-11-03, 07:23 AM
I totally agree that Wizards understand magic better than any other class. But casting raw magical force in an unfocused, destructive form doesn't sound like it takes understanding; casting refined magical energy in focused, constructive or transformative forms does. In fact, Evocation Wizards specifically learn to refine their most unfocused, destructive spells!

Ideally, I think changing the traits of a spell (casting time, range, components, duration, save, damage, slot cost, etc) would be the best way to represent the Wizard. But because the Sorcerer already does this (Font of Magic, Metamagic) we'll need another distinguishing mechanic.

Idea one: a Wizard might have cunning defenses against familiar spells, thanks to to their in-depth knowledge. Maybe you could allow them to make a reaction against a spell they've seen before (to move out of the way, take cover, disrupt the spell, or otherwise evade/thwart it), or allow them to cast a lesser version of Counterspell that represents disrupting but not completely snuffing out the rival spell.

Idea two: a Wizard might be able to invent new spells or cantrips using elements of known ones. These might be learned alongside normal spells, or prepared from scratch each morning. This might be complicated to balance, but you could assign a point value to damage dice/range increments/effects/durations/etc and rule that cantrips/spells of a certain level can only be worth a certain number of points.

Idea three: Wizard is to a Sorcerer what a Fighter is to a Barbarian, so she might a "casting style". You could tie these to components, for example:

Somatic Casting requires gestures but no noise or material (which changes very little compared to usual 5e gameplay).
Vocal Casting requires noise but no gestures or material (which might affect touch spells, spell attacks, rules for cover, etc).
Material Casting requires material, but few gestures and no noise (which is effectively alchemy, allowing "spells" to be handed off to others, saved for later, damaged or lost)
Mental Casting requires no components at all (which might come with increased risk of broken concentration)




Regarding Shift, I do see what you mean, but I think it's a bit of a thematic stretch. If someone asked for a feature that represents the Wizard remembering spells they didn't prepare, it would almost certainly add prepared spells partway through the day or cast a spell that was not prepared, not replace prepared spells. Again, I think the feature as you wrote it more fitting for the Cleric, who is borrowing spells and who could at any time be lent a different set by their deity. The lord giveth and taketh, y'know?

In other words, I really do like the feature. It's a fun mechanic. But I wouldn't want it for the Wizard anymore than I'd want Sneak Attack for the Fighter.

What if, for shift, it's a temporary benefit? Something like "For 1 minute, you may add a number of prepared spells wqual to your Intelligence modifier. After this minute, the spells become unprepared due to the mental strain of improvising their use."?

GalacticAxekick
2017-11-03, 07:03 PM
What if, for shift, it's a temporary benefit? Something like "For 1 minute, you may add a number of prepared spells equal to your Intelligence modifier. After this minute, the spells become unprepared due to the mental strain of improvising their use."?That works thematically, but I think this Arcane Charge system and this model for Shift in particular is more complicated than it needs to be to represent the theme of recall and achieve the mechanic of spontaneous casting. I'd keep it simple by using the original Arcane Recovery as a model. No need to invent new resource pools (like multiple uses per rest or spells equal to Int modifier) or penalties (duration of 1 minute) when those have been laid out for you.

To start off, I see two options for resource pools: "Once per day when you finish a Short Rest, you can choose expended Spell Slots to recover. The Spell Slots can have a combined level that is equal to or less than half your wizard level (rounded up), and none of the slots can be 6th level or higher."

I'd like to use the combined level as resource because it gives us more information about how the feature will scale. The combined level is just a number determined by your Wizard level, so we can turn it into points system similar to the Sorcerer's. For instance:

"Wizardry Points: You have a number of Wizardry Points equal to your half your Wizard level (rounded up). You regain all spent Wizardry Points when you finish a Long Rest.

Arcane Recovery: When you finish a Short Rest, you can choose to recover expended spell slots with a combined level equal to or less than your remaining Wizardry Points. None of the slots can be 6th level or higher. The Points are spent in this process.

Arcane Recall: You can cast a spell or perform a ritual that you did not prepare if its level is equal to or less than your remaining Wizardry Points. None of the spells can be of 6th level or higher. The Points are spent in this process."

Arcane Recision: As a reaction when another creature you can see within 60 ft casts a spell of a level equal to or less than your remaining Wizardry Points, you can consume these points in an attempt to disrupt it. Make an ability check using your spellcasting ability. The DC equals 10 + the spell’s level. On a success, the creature’s spell fails and has no effect.

You cannot use Arcane Recision to disrupt a spell of a level higher than you can cast."