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kalos72
2017-11-02, 06:07 PM
I am not sure where this belongs so here it goes...

In FR campaigns I believe there is a limit on spell levels to 9 by the Gods?

Would that same rule govern psionics?

Neoxenok
2017-11-03, 12:02 AM
I am not sure where this belongs so here it goes...

In FR campaigns I believe there is a limit on spell levels to 9 by the Gods?

Would that same rule govern psionics?

That's up to the DM more than anything, but the rule was put in place by Mystra in order to prevent another Karsus event that caused the death of Mystryl and obliterated Netheril.

Given that this change applies to the weave, from which magic is required to access to function, this means most casters (arcane or divine) are disbarred from casting spells above 9th level.
... however...

Neither psionicists nor shadow weave users use the weave and Shar, the creator of the shadow weave, has made no such ban. Practitioners of psionics create a field around themselves that essentially exists as their own personal weave, so a psion wouldn't be subject to, for example, a dead magic zone in the weave or shadow weave.

This also doesn't prevent things like the use of metamagic feats that use spell slots above 9th level (including heighten spell) nor does it necessarily disbar epic spells or psionics.
What it does ban is actual "this spell uses a 10th level spell slot" sort of spells as by the time you reach 13th level spell slots, a true 13th level spell (the one Karsus used successfully) could make a mortal into an actual god.
So although epic versions of true 10th level + magic exists, they don't really compare as true 10th level + spells are ridiculously powerful (or at least they're supposed to be).

Given that psionicists are mortal and shar isn't a goddess of magic, however, I would rule that their respective weaves aren't quite up to replicating true 10th level or higher spells.

kalos72
2017-11-03, 08:33 AM
Thanks for the reply.

There are a few psionic gods in the books through the FR histories but definitely not anything like Shar/Mystra for magic thats for sure. Sardior for example is a good one to base on imho...

My groups concerns is that the primary PC is a custom class Seer-type and getting to Epic levels that class feels really weak compared to epic magic/divine casters so the question was could he use epic level spells-10th level plus as psionic, breaking the spell level cap limit and giving the class more power.

One other idea was to carry off the old "udoxias" crystal type item that could focus multiple psions and replicate ritual type magic or possibly even high magic to add some punch to the class at these levels...

Arte
2017-11-03, 10:41 AM
Thanks for the reply.

There are a few psionic gods in the books through the FR histories but definitely not anything like Shar/Mystra for magic thats for sure. Sardior for example is a good one to base on imho...

My groups concerns is that the primary PC is a custom class Seer-type and getting to Epic levels that class feels really weak compared to epic magic/divine casters so the question was could he use epic level spells-10th level plus as psionic, breaking the spell level cap limit and giving the class more power.

One other idea was to carry off the old "udoxias" crystal type item that could focus multiple psions and replicate ritual type magic or possibly even high magic to add some punch to the class at these levels...

Honestly any effect beyond 9th level is plot. In fact a lot of the current 9th level spells are plot devices with some utility, I think 3 of them are offensive.

With that said I would treat them like any other plot device... I'd make a quest out of it.

To be honest though because the powers themselves banned spells on the prime beyond 9th level only top shelf bloods might have a hint of a chance of getting one much less using them.

So treat them like the scepter of the sorcerer kings or any other profane artifact of extreme power.

You can find it sure but the moment you use it every power from here to pandemonium knows who did what, where and when. And they're all looking to slag whatever blood just tried it.

Neoxenok
2017-11-03, 11:57 AM
My groups concerns is that the primary PC is a custom class Seer-type and getting to Epic levels that class feels really weak compared to epic magic/divine casters so the question was could he use epic level spells-10th level plus as psionic, breaking the spell level cap limit and giving the class more power.

I'm not really certain why this would be as the epic level spell rules are the same for all casters/manifesters with few exceptions. :/

If you're just getting into epic levels, then epic level spells aren't going to be that spectacular due to relatively low spellcraft modifiers and few epic spell slots to play around with until somewhere past level 30 when you have some increases from items, epic feats, and other factors. That's true for all potential epic casters.