Largest bleed possible?

[SangoProduction]

I made a thread about Best Sunder Possible (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?540424-Best-Sunder-Possible), using Spheres of Might (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/). Didn't get much traction. Probably with good reason, considering that, even when you can undo the damage you did to the group's loot, you still have to undo the damage. Still. It was cool, and I'm looking to play it in the next PF game I can find that allows it.

However, in there, I found a relevant power in the Duelist Sphere, Slickened Grip, which has the enemy take a penalty to CMD equal to the bleed, and 2x that for Disarm and Sunder checks. That's interesting. (Plus, having the enemy literally tripping on their blood is fun.)

Of course, for the Duelist, you can deal (explicitly stacking) bleed, at a rate of 1 per attack...though it has to be from an Attack (standard) Action, an AoO, or Disarm checks. But this is really, really slow and inefficient use of our actions (at least, if the sole purpose is to accumulate bleed). Also, winning the disarm check means you can't disarm any more, losing the ability to disarm for the bleed.

Of course, the Barrage sphere allows you to take at least 2 attacks per Attack Action, if at a penalty, so that's an interesting build right there. This is especially true, if you're using Touch-Attack guns, and Two-Weapon Fighting gives an additional attack per round (it doesn't say it's restricted to full attack actions). So, yeah. Penalties. But touch attacks on full BAB.

Anyway. Is there a better to quickly apply a massive bleed before you have to start trying to build up via the Duelist sphere?

[BloodSnake'sCha]

If I remember correctly there is a feat the convert SA damage to bleed in 3.5e if you can use stuff from 3.5e.

That way you can SA as part of a full attack and get a lot of bleed.


Arterial Strike - Complete Warrior, p.96

Your sneak attacks target large blood vessels, leaving wounds that cause massive blood loss.
Prerequisite
base attack bonus +4, Sneak attack ability,
Benefit
If you hit with a sneak attack, you may choose to forgo +1d6 of extra sneak attack damage to deliver a wound that won't stop bleeding. Each wound caused in this manner saps an extra 1 point of damage per round from the victim, until the victim receives the benefit of a DC 15 Heal check or any cure spell or other magical healing. Wounds from multiple arterial strikes result in cumulative bleeding loss (two successful arterial strikes cause an extra 2 points of damage per round until healed). You may deliver only one bleeding wound per successful sneak attack.

[Footman]

Well the only thing i have seen that does Bleed Damage somewhat better than the Rest is the Vengful Hunter archetype of the Fighter:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo-fighter-archetypes/vengeful-hunter-fighter-archetype/

[SangoProduction]

Well the only thing i have seen that does Bleed Damage somewhat better than the Rest is the Vengful Hunter archetype of the Fighter:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo-fighter-archetypes/vengeful-hunter-fighter-archetype/

Doesn't need to be in the same way that Duelist does. Spells work too.

Also, I found Thistle Arrows (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/weapons/weapon-descriptions/ammunition/ammunition-bow-arrow-thistle). 1 gp a pop, but does its damage as bleed for 1d6 rounds.

[Darrin]

If Eberron is available, the Wind and Fire feat with dual cutting wheels causes bleed damage (Secrets of Sarlona).

[Anthrowhale]

Wounding metamagic makes a damaging spell cause bleed damage. A wounding flash frost blizzard is dungeon fumigator.

[Necroticplague]

This is especially true, if you're using Touch-Attack guns, and Two-Weapon Fighting gives an additional attack per round (it doesn't say it's restricted to full attack actions). So, yeah. Penalties. But touch attacks on full BAB.

No, but Spheres of Might makes it very clear that it's restricted from full-attacks

Attack action

An attack action is a type of standard action. Some combat options can modify only this specific sort of action. When taking an attack action, you can apply all appropriate options that modify an attack action. Thus, you can apply both the Boxing sphere’s counter punch and Vital Strike to the same attack, as both modify an attack action. You can apply these to any combat option that takes the place of an attack made using an attack action (such as the trip combat maneuver), though options that increase damage don’t cause attacks to deal damage if they wouldn’t otherwise do so (such as Vital Strike and trip).

You can’t combine options that modify attack actions with standard actions that aren’t attack actions, such as Cleave.So a full-round Attack action is different from an Attack action, and Duelist only applies to the latter. Two-weapon fighting can't help you here. Triangle Slash can, however.

[SangoProduction]

No, but Spheres of Might makes it very clear that it's restricted from full-attacks
So a full-round Attack action is different from an Attack action, and Duelist only applies to the latter. Two-weapon fighting can't help you here. Triangle Slash can, however.

"It" was referring to Two-Weapon Fighting saying you get +1 attack per round. "It" wasn't the Attack Action. Unfortunately, although the Dual Wield sphere explicitly allows for the attack to happen in the attack action, it doesn't allow the offhand attack to get the boosts from the special attack actions, which presumably includes the Duelist thing (at least without a different sphere bonus).

So, we do get, written out, the intended interaction with that. Still, it was a cool idea.

[Aldrakan]

Don't know Spheres work so no idea if this would work for what you're doing, but the largest potential bleed available might be the Cabalist archetype of the vigilante, which deals bleed damage equal to their level against opponents that are unaware or denied Dex bonus. At higher levels that's an extremely high bleed afflicted in a single attack.

[Necroticplague]

"It" was referring to Two-Weapon Fighting saying you get +1 attack per round.
Ah. In that case, you're wrong on a different level as well:

If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough (see Base Attack Bonus in Classes), because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon, or for some special reason, you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks.

But, more on-topicly: the Lancer sphere gives a bleed when you rip your weapon out equal to the damage dice of the weapon.

[grarrrg]

The main issue with Bleed damage is that by default it doesn't stack, only the best one applies, and most sources that DO stack usually only add "+1" at a time.

So in the vast majority of cases, by the time you get the Bleed damage 'high enough', your target is already dead.

Wounding (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/wounding) is one of the "best" options I've seen (not that there are all that many).