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akma
2017-11-04, 01:05 PM
Character creation can be long and tedious, and I thought about the idea of having some of it occur during the first session, and maybe even afterwards. The idea is that players will start with the general concept and some big things and develop the little details during play, until a point in which it will be finalized and they will progress with mechanics like experience points. I once thought about doing something like that with an existing system by having the start of the adventure with temporary partial amnesia.

Are there any game systems that already do it?

Anonymouswizard
2017-11-04, 02:05 PM
Out of what I own, not as the default.

It is stated as an option in Fate, allowing players to leave Aspects and/or Skills blank at the beginning of play. Until they decide what rank they want all skills are at +0, and Aspects can only be compelled and invoked once they've been filled in. It works much better for Aspects than for Skills.

LordEntrails
2017-11-04, 02:55 PM
This is kind of what "leveling up" is. The character develops as you get more experience.

You can also look into some mods that have a "level 0" philosophy. There is at least one module for 5E that takes this level 0 approach, where character start before they have a class. They only have stats and a race. Their class is something they gain during the first session or two.

Mastikator
2017-11-04, 03:02 PM
No RPGs where this is explicitly done that I know of but I once did the backstory of a character in a prologue session with the DM, at the end the stats were made.

It was relatively quick and IMO a good thing.

LibraryOgre
2017-11-04, 04:51 PM
Really, that concept is part of why I don't like 3.x... continually creating your character, trying to make the one you wanted as you level up... until you surpass that point.

Now, 3:16 Carnage Among the Stars DID have such a mechanic. You defined certain aspects of your characters background during play, explaining WHY you were able to pull something off, even if it was weird or non-sensical.

kyoryu
2017-11-04, 07:14 PM
Out of what I own, not as the default.

It is stated as an option in Fate, allowing players to leave Aspects and/or Skills blank at the beginning of play. Until they decide what rank they want all skills are at +0, and Aspects can only be compelled and invoked once they've been filled in. It works much better for Aspects than for Skills.

It's the default for Fate Accelerated.

Demidos
2017-11-05, 02:22 AM
I've DMed a 3.5 game where each player was given the ability to make 3 "declarations", which was basically the ability to add a certain element to your backstory mid-game. You could declare that the BBEG was married to your estranged uncle, that the shopkeeper is in fact the member of a secret organization of which you are part, or that you had a detachment of paladins watching your back for the last several sessions that step into battle when you are suddenly on the verge of death.

The players were expected to be mature with their declarations, things like "I solve the plot" would obviously be not allowed, but I told them that if there was any way I could reasonably allow it I would. I thought the concept was very neat as it allowed the players to act on their changing understanding of their characters through time, and made the backstory something more organic and interactive than a boring 3 page long essay about their early lives. It could also keep the other players (and DM!) on their toes without having to figure out some complex system of explaining your character without showing anyone your sheet, to preserve the surprise twists.

Maclay
2017-11-05, 04:25 AM
Two games come to mind when I consider this, but while they do what you ask to some degree I suspect they won't be what you're looking for in other regards.

At the most basic level you have Roll for Shoes. A short simple game in which you start with precisely one skill:
Do Anything 1d6
Contested rolls on d6s, roll all 6s and you get a skill in whatever you were doing e.g.
Climbing 2d6
Rock-Climbing 3d6
I've only seen it played, so please excuse any errors in explaining such a complex rule set.

The other game I've looked at that does something along these lines is Leverage (Cortex Plus) wherein you join a crew of crooks sticking it to the man for the greater good. It's based on a TV series.
Character creation starts with determining the broad strokes (what your main 'things' are) but then you can run a Recruitment Job where your character proves their worth and fills in the blanks as the job progresses.

Blazmo
2017-11-05, 04:58 AM
Sounds like powered by the apocalypse games would be right up your alley.

Prime32
2017-11-05, 08:25 PM
More for fluff than crunch, but Tenra Bansho Zero has "Scene Zero" rules where you start the game by having each PC play through some of their backstory in turn. Mind, the whole game is structured around short scenes and allows players to participate even when their character isn't present, so this tends to be less awkward than many attempts at a "Session Zero".

Lapak
2017-11-05, 08:48 PM
This is kind of what "leveling up" is. The character develops as you get more experience.

You can also look into some mods that have a "level 0" philosophy. There is at least one module for 5E that takes this level 0 approach, where character start before they have a class. They only have stats and a race. Their class is something they gain during the first session or two.
Dungeon Crawl Classics uses this method. (Or rather, a more extreme version with a 0-level 'funnel'; every player starts with several 0-level characters and the ones that survive the first adventure earn a character class.)

But that's further away from finished than the original poster seems to be describing, where it's just finishing touches and specializations being nailed down after play begins. I like that idea, though!

Anonymouswizard
2017-11-05, 11:08 PM
It's the default for Fate Accelerated.

Yeah, I tend to forget about FAE and assume Core is the only default (because FAE is technically a heavily altered Core). Plus FAE seems a bit weird to be, being a more of a pick-up game whereas I'm more used to Fate as the game that assumes a session zero.

Knaight
2017-11-05, 11:29 PM
Fate more or less swiped this from the "Fudge on the Fly" article on the (now defunct) Fudge Factor eZine. There you defined a character by a descriptive concept, the highest skill on a skill pyramid, and a flaw. Whenever a skill came up you assigned it to a blank on the spot until the pyramid was full.

Rerednaw
2017-11-05, 11:45 PM
Dungeon World...for that matter it's parent Apocalypse World and most of the hacks (subsystems that use the engine) kind of work that way. Your character motivations are made during play.

FATE has some elements like that.

Basically the systems with more player agency and narrative tend to lean towards this.

Pex
2017-11-06, 12:41 AM
In Traveller your character can die during character creation.

Nifft
2017-11-06, 12:48 AM
In Traveller your character can die during character creation.

I wish that were referred to as "Dribbling".

Aliquid
2017-11-06, 12:57 AM
In Traveller your character can die during character creation.This is true.

I actually quite like the character creation process in traveller, if done properly in a group process.

Tinkerer
2017-11-06, 10:49 AM
Before the first level up (or for about the first 3 sessions or so for other systems) I tell my players they can reshuffle if they haven't used a particular ability yet so I tend to tell them not to worry too much about getting everything just perfect since if something doesn't quite match up they can reallocate. That helps cut down on character creation time since I find during character creation players spend about 50% of the time on 90% of the process and the other 50% spent trying to finish the last 10% of the character. We then have a brief chat at the end of the first adventure where we get everything sorted out and finalized.

Pilo
2017-11-06, 10:59 AM
I know a game called Leverage Roleplaying Game from Margaret Weis Productions, where each character is partially done during the first session.

Capt Spanner
2017-11-06, 12:42 PM
I can't remember the name of the system (it was never formally published anyway) where you had a pool of skill points that you allocated during play, by filling out backstory.

So you'd start the character with no (or minimal) back story, beyond a motivation, and no skills. Then when you come to a challenge you fill in a backstory justification for the skills you want, and the GM tells you how many points it will cost, based on the plausibility of it.

If you need extra points, you can also take a flaw to buy extra points.

For example:

GM: You come to a chasm, about three metres wide. There is no bridge.

Player (P): I want to jump the chasm. I was a long jumper, and competed for my school. I could often clear three metres.

GM: Okay, that's pretty plausible. Two points.

P: Oh, I only have one point left. Tell you what, I have an phobia of water.

GM: That will give you an extra three points to spend. You get the skills.

[Later]

GM: You can approach by water, but you'll only have sixty seconds in the water before the hyper-sharks detect you.

P: Sixty seconds? That's not much. Okay, I used to be an olympic swimmer. I can do it. How many points?

GM: An olympic swimmer would do it, but that's pretty implausible. Eight points?

P: Okay, so ...

GM: Wait, you have a phobia of water. How did you become an olympic swimmer? Sixteen points.

P: Oh, Belgium!

Skelechicken
2017-11-06, 07:59 PM
Dread suggests allowing players to do this by seeing what checks they can and cannot pass.

So if a player asks if they can translate a tome written in an obscure language loosely based on Latin because they were an academic in an unspecified field and succeeds their check, then suddenly their player has a field, and in the future may not need to make skill checks to do similar translation.

That said Dread is a pretty loose system. The other examples here have a bit more crunch.

DonEsteban
2017-11-06, 08:29 PM
The Conan RPG and other games using the 2d20 system like Infinity or Star Trek do this to varying degrees by developing "Life Paths". It usually takes about one session or less. It is fun. Star Trek also has the option to create a skeleton character and fleshing out aspects during play (similar to FATE).

Cluedrew
2017-11-07, 07:50 AM
At the most basic level you have Roll for Shoes.A game that didn't try to be anything more than what it wanted to be.

I've also heard of One Last Job, which is about a bunch of criminals doing the last job. Character creation continues into play with other players talking about the things your character did on the previous jobs. I've never even read the rulebook, so this is really a second hand blurb.

Aliquid
2017-11-07, 11:29 AM
Yeah, I tend to forget about FAE and assume Core is the only default (because FAE is technically a heavily altered Core). Plus FAE seems a bit weird to be, being a more of a pick-up game whereas I'm more used to Fate as the game that assumes a session zero.Total sidebar here... but I find the acronym FAE amusing

Consider that it is short for [Fate Accelerated Edition]... and FATE was originally an acronym itself, which was short for [Fudge Adventures in Tabletop Entertainment], based on the older Fudge RPG. Going even deeper, FUDGE was originally an acronym too [Freeform Universal Do-it-yourself Gaming Engine].

So FAE is an acronym nested in and acronym nested in an acronym.

FAE = Freeform Universal Do-it-yourself Gaming Engine Adventures in Tabletop Entertainment, Accelerated Edition

Studoku
2017-11-07, 11:39 AM
In Traveller your character can die during character creation.

Traveller character generation is practically a game in itself

wumpus
2017-11-07, 11:49 AM
In Traveller your character can die during character creation.

First edition Traveller (no idea how it changed) also had no means to level up or advance (although presumably you could take training during downtime. Or perhaps homebrew chip brain inserts and software downloads). Wealth (especially with ship ownership) was presumably a primary form of advancement.


Really, that concept is part of why I don't like 3.x... continually creating your character, trying to make the one you wanted as you level up... until you surpass that point.

Now, 3:16 Carnage Among the Stars DID have such a mechanic. You defined certain aspects of your characters background during play, explaining WHY you were able to pull something off, even if it was weird or non-sensical.

I would think that for campaign play, a character *should* be changed by an adventure, and certainly the major changes of a long campaign (3.x is also great for building a "snapshot" single play character).

The big catch is that D&D is always going to be pretty class heavy (and OOTS plays this well for laughs), and the abuse that 3.x lends to that will always feel weird as you play a build as it develops. Advancing skills in smaller chunks that full classes sounds better, but is significantly harder to balance.

Magic Myrmidon
2017-11-08, 12:28 PM
There's a small RPG out there called "One Last Job" in which character creation is done as part of the planning for a heists. Looks pretty neat, but I haven't played it.

kyoryu
2017-11-08, 12:35 PM
but is significantly harder to balance.

[citation needed]

Seriously, I find 3.x to be more abusable than the vast majority of skill-based systems, including noteworthies such as GURPS.

It's one of the reasons I don't care for 3.x, actually - less flexibility in exchange for more charop potential? I'll pass.

Knaight
2017-11-08, 01:09 PM
[citation needed]

Seriously, I find 3.x to be more abusable than the vast majority of skill-based systems, including noteworthies such as GURPS.

It's one of the reasons I don't care for 3.x, actually - less flexibility in exchange for more charop potential? I'll pass.

Classes overall being easier to balance doesn't mean much for 3.x, between heavy multiclassing and the sheer number of classes. There's also the matter of how simpler systems are easier to balance than more complicated ones, and 3.x is way over on the more complicatedend of the scale. It's just familiar enough to the general RPG community that the complexity gets understated, leading to ludicrous comparative statements like "D&D 3.x is less complicated than GURPS".

kyoryu
2017-11-08, 02:00 PM
Classes overall being easier to balance doesn't mean much for 3.x, between heavy multiclassing and the sheer number of classes. There's also the matter of how simpler systems are easier to balance than more complicated ones, and 3.x is way over on the more complicatedend of the scale. It's just familiar enough to the general RPG community that the complexity gets understated, leading to ludicrous comparative statements like "D&D 3.x is less complicated than GURPS".

I don't really consider 3.x to be a class-based game, to be fair.

The big issue with 3.x in terms of charop complexity is the fact that "class levels" are effectively bundles of various things, unlike buying most things in GURPS/HERO where you're just buying that thing directly. That makes balance much, much more difficult.

Anonymouswizard
2017-11-08, 02:06 PM
Here's an interesting idea I've had, although it would require you to be okay with relatively specialized characters because it's the end result of the syste.

-Players only purchase Ability Scores and Advantages/Disadvantages at character creation, but can put aside as many points as they want for skills (potential rule: at least X points must be reserved).
-During the game when a player succeeds at a skill check they can spend some of the skill points they set aside to raise that skill by one.
-Once a player has spend all their skill points they advance as normal (or XP becomes new skill points).

The main problem I see here is ending up with weird skill combinations (I have three points each in pistol, climb, survival, swimming, and nuclear physics), and the fact that the more points you have in a skill the more chance you'll have to raise it.

Joe the Rat
2017-11-08, 02:33 PM
One wrinkle on Dread is that if you don't succeed, you're going to die. Like Traveler.
Freeform and story-driven tend to work well with this. The trick is that you start getting away from "character creation" beyond what's needed in narrative, and likely not evolve past the story.

I can think of another sort-of example: Munchkin. Race and Class may come (and go) over the course of play. If only there were a way to harness that system for good...


Total sidebar here... but I find the acronym FAE amusing

Consider that it is short for [Fate Accelerated Edition]... and FATE was originally an acronym itself, which was short for [Fudge Adventures in Tabletop Entertainment], based on the older Fudge RPG. Going even deeper, FUDGE was originally an acronym too [Freeform Universal Do-it-yourself Gaming Engine].

So FAE is an acronym nested in and acronym nested in an acronym.
Oh dear I've gone crosseyed.


Freeform Universal Do-it-yourself Gaming Engine Adventures in Tabletop Entertainment, Accelerated EditionYou only wish your game's title was this long and descriptive.

Dracoqwerty
2017-11-08, 03:19 PM
I believe that the CRPG Tyranny kind of goes by that style, at least in the start, because during the "Conquest" part of the game your choices determine which benefits and special powers you get.
Dracoqwerty

LibraryOgre
2017-11-08, 03:43 PM
In the old PC game "Dusk of the Gods", character creation was playing out the mortal life of your Einherjar. Did you spend years at the temples of the gods? Did you fight in battles? Did you study? Whatever you did, that determined your stats as an Einherjar.

(For the record: Your best bet was to study like crazy. There were only two stats, Warrior and Sage, plus favor with 4 of the Aesir. There were a lot of easy bonuses to Warrior available, favor with the Aesir wasn't terribly important, but Sage was a rare commodity.)

JeenLeen
2017-11-08, 05:11 PM
As an example of this being mentioned as an optional thing.

I've heard of some new World of Darkness games with the idea of this. Something like an opening module where how you handle things shapes what your opening powers/affinities are. Old World of Darkness Hunter also proposed this.
Not my cup of tea, as I prefer more control over the mechanics/powers my character has access to, but I can see the fun of doing a game pre-powers. I was in a D&D 3.5 game where all our class features were sealed until game 2, and it was kinda cool, but we still chose our classes. (This was a real world army team gets teleported to a D&D realm.)

Jay R
2017-11-08, 06:33 PM
I don't really consider 3.x to be a class-based game, to be fair.

The big issue with 3.x in terms of charop complexity is the fact that "class levels" are effectively bundles of various things, unlike buying most things in GURPS/HERO where you're just buying that thing directly. That makes balance much, much more difficult.

I agree with what I think you mean, I just phrase is differently. 3.x re-defined "class" to be something that has nothing to do with class.

An excellent actual class-based game is Flashing Blades, role-playing in the time and place of the musketeers, 17th century France.

Your class is your actual social class - rogue, soldier, gentleman, or noble.

Friv
2017-11-08, 06:56 PM
There's a small RPG out there called "One Last Job" in which character creation is done as part of the planning for a heists. Looks pretty neat, but I haven't played it.

I've played One Last Job! It is a lot of fun, but it is exclusively designed for one-shots. You might be able to extrapolate a lot of its stuff into a long-form character creation process, though.

The basic premise is that you start the game with nothing special on your sheet - just average scores in all of the 'skills' for your game (usually, there are 4-5). You have empty slots for the following things:
* Worst At This Skill - special
* Best At This Skill - special
* Legend - 2 slots
* Scar - 2 slots
* Equipment - 2 slots

Whenever you fail an action, you can write in one of those five things. You can say that you are the worst at that sort of thing, and reduce your skill at it to 1, in which case you get a plot token. If someone else is already the worst at that thing, you can say that you're the best at that thing, boost your skill to 3, and reroll.

Instead, another player can tell a story of a Legend or a Scar - a time in the past when you did something really awesome, or screwed up in a big way, related to the thing you're trying to do. I don't recall the exact rules, but I think being a Legend gives you a bonus in similar situations (instead of with similar skills), and a Scar gives you a plot token and a reroll. Finally, you can reveal a really cool piece of equipment for a reroll. Once all your slots are filled up, you can't get that thing any more.

(One Last Job also has a thing where, if your character would die, you can instead "reveal" that you've been working against the rest of the party the whole time, and become a supporting character helping the GM.)

Nifft
2017-11-08, 08:13 PM
Total sidebar here... but I find the acronym FAE amusing

Consider that it is short for [Fate Accelerated Edition]... and FATE was originally an acronym itself, which was short for [Fudge Adventures in Tabletop Entertainment], based on the older Fudge RPG. Going even deeper, FUDGE was originally an acronym too [Freeform Universal Do-it-yourself Gaming Engine].

So FAE is an acronym nested in and acronym nested in an acronym.

FAE = Freeform Universal Do-it-yourself Gaming Engine Adventures in Tabletop Entertainment, Accelerated Edition

Now I want to run a FAE campaign: FAE Unseelie Court Knights.

It would be another layer of acronymaximization.

Anonymouswizard
2017-11-09, 04:49 AM
Now I want to run a FAE campaign: FAE Unseelie Court Knights.

It would be another layer of acronymaximization.

Can characters be named something like Youssef Oliver Urswinder?

maracan
2017-11-09, 07:26 AM
As I know there isn't such RPG

Nifft
2017-11-09, 03:25 PM
Can characters be named something like Youssef Oliver Urswinder?

Of course, and Youssef's erstwhile companion Meredith Everwynne.

Knaight
2017-11-09, 04:17 PM
I agree with what I think you mean, I just phrase is differently. 3.x re-defined "class" to be something that has nothing to do with class.


The term class has been used for the 3.x style and not just social-class for a very long time in RPGs. That's not to say that it isn't used for both, although generally games try to avoid using the term for both game classes and social classes in the same game too much (which is really easy for most games, as they aren't game class based anyways).

hifidelity2
2017-11-10, 08:23 AM
Here's an interesting idea I've had, although it would require you to be okay with relatively specialized characters because it's the end result of the syste.

-Players only purchase Ability Scores and Advantages/Disadvantages at character creation, but can put aside as many points as they want for skills (potential rule: at least X points must be reserved).
-During the game when a player succeeds at a skill check they can spend some of the skill points they set aside to raise that skill by one.
-Once a player has spend all their skill points they advance as normal (or XP becomes new skill points).

The main problem I see here is ending up with weird skill combinations (I have three points each in pistol, climb, survival, swimming, and nuclear physics), and the fact that the more points you have in a skill the more chance you'll have to raise it.

I have used this for GURPs (in a modern day setting game)
Players buy stats and main advantages / disadvantages and then I gave a generic(ish) set of skill

Players could then chose others as the game progressed and they created more of a back story

The other one we use most of the time is Quirks - we allow 5 points of quirks to be spent at the start of the game but then as you develop you actually specify them

akma
2017-11-10, 03:55 PM
Wow, seems like I have a lot of reading to do...

Seems people have a different vision then me for this concept, I thought about it as a way to ease players into a complex game system or world, while the examples seem to be more focused on narrative or adding some "spice". I got this idea due to thoughts about organizing a Nobilis group, and realizing I'll need to explain things like Chancels and Imperators and defining the estate and how abstractly defined abilities work, and I thought about that if a player will misunderstand the feel of the world he'll probably create a very different character then what he would like to play. I guess one day I'll invent a game system / setting with such play-build system and use this thread as reference.

JeenLeen
2017-11-13, 01:06 PM
Wow, seems like I have a lot of reading to do...

Seems people have a different vision then me for this concept, I thought about it as a way to ease players into a complex game system or world, while the examples seem to be more focused on narrative or adding some "spice". I got this idea due to thoughts about organizing a Nobilis group, and realizing I'll need to explain things like Chancels and Imperators and defining the estate and how abstractly defined abilities work, and I thought about that if a player will misunderstand the feel of the world he'll probably create a very different character then what he would like to play. I guess one day I'll invent a game system / setting with such play-build system and use this thread as reference.

If you want to introduce players to a game, you could try doing a one-session short game to start off a campaign, not directly related to the campaign and with different PCs. (Though if the players really like the PC they had, you could port it to the real game.)

I've sometimes found that I don't really get how some mechanics will play out when I"m first reading about a game, but then I feel stuck (especially if the mechanic is crucial to my backstory or overall build, something that can't easily be retconned). Having a short game to introduce the mechanics and get a feel for it would be nice, especially if the group expects a long campaign and can meet often enough that one short game outside the main campaign doesn't slow things down too much.

Psikerlord
2017-11-13, 06:26 PM
In Traveller your character can die during character creation.

hahaha if that is true that is awesome

Psikerlord
2017-11-13, 06:29 PM
I'm not sure but I thiink maybe in Beyond the Wall you migit create your PC in the first session of play, not sure. You certianly build you starting village together (I havent played it, not read it, just what ive gleaned from reviews etc)

RazorChain
2017-11-13, 08:25 PM
I've DMed a 3.5 game where each player was given the ability to make 3 "declarations", which was basically the ability to add a certain element to your backstory mid-game. You could declare that the BBEG was married to your estranged uncle, that the shopkeeper is in fact the member of a secret organization of which you are part, or that you had a detachment of paladins watching your back for the last several sessions that step into battle when you are suddenly on the verge of death.

The players were expected to be mature with their declarations, things like "I solve the plot" would obviously be not allowed, but I told them that if there was any way I could reasonably allow it I would. I thought the concept was very neat as it allowed the players to act on their changing understanding of their characters through time, and made the backstory something more organic and interactive than a boring 3 page long essay about their early lives. It could also keep the other players (and DM!) on their toes without having to figure out some complex system of explaining your character without showing anyone your sheet, to preserve the surprise twists.


What you call declaration is a staple in Theatrix called plot points. You need to get into the palace? One palace guard is an old mercenary buddy of yours, maybe you can persuade him to get you in.

It is great for world building and adding or detracting from a scene and gets the players invested. Some players hate it, some love it.

Anonymouswizard
2017-11-14, 04:40 AM
Wow, seems like I have a lot of reading to do...

Seems people have a different vision then me for this concept, I thought about it as a way to ease players into a complex game system or world, while the examples seem to be more focused on narrative or adding some "spice". I got this idea due to thoughts about organizing a Nobilis group, and realizing I'll need to explain things like Chancels and Imperators and defining the estate and how abstractly defined abilities work, and I thought about that if a player will misunderstand the feel of the world he'll probably create a very different character then what he would like to play. I guess one day I'll invent a game system / setting with such play-build system and use this thread as reference.

In terms of how to introduce a complex game system or world, eh it varies. For game systems I have seen ones go 'if the group is just starting feel free to leave out element X for a session or two and then let players pick during play' (Fate Acclerated recommends this for Stunts). Although I'll note that many game systems these days are more complicated than they need to be if they use levels, giving players at least one new ability to keep track of every time they level up, a 20th level D&D 5e character will generally have somewhere in the realm of ten to fifteen abilities, which have in turn been strengthened by another ten abilities.

In terms of setting, it's all about how you introduce it. You don't have to reveal it all at once, few GMs I know do that.


hahaha if that is true that is awesome

In first edition a single failed survival roll when you went for another term killed your character, no backsies. Suiciding characters until you got decent stats was easy and common (just take 10+ terms as a Scout). In the current editions is harder, Mongoose Traveller has survival rolls cause a mishap by default.

Wraith
2017-11-14, 05:01 AM
The Old World of Darkness had a mechanic for at least partial character creation during play; specifically in Vampire and Hunter, though you could kinda do it in Wraith, Demon and Werewolf too.

The premise is that you create a baseline human and then in the first couple of sessions that your GM runs you through see you getting Embraced or Erupting in an organic manner, rather than just "the game starts, you're a vampire now", and you pick your Vampiric powers and bloodline through play.

If you DM wants to put in a bit more time and effort into the process, you can play an entire campaign as a generic, barely developed Vampire and the plot is about discovering your true nature - what powers you have, who your Sire is, and how they develop over a period of time until you ultimately end the campaign with a "level 1" character who has an established background.

Lunatic Sledge
2017-11-14, 03:18 PM
If it's not been mentioned yet, Mystic Empyrean from Level 99 Games. Powers are all tied to personality attributes, and the party basically "votes" on each others' traits after a session or during a break. So if your party members noticed your character was very boastful, they'll mark you down points in Boastful, which then translates to your character doubling in size and strength. If they mark you down as greedy, you'll gain the power to turn stuff into gold (or something like that).

Basic stats are tied to those traits and powers.

So, you can run the first part of a session--find a good breathing point, and have everybody suss out how each others' characters behaved in the situation. Bam, present their powers. I introduced at least a few players to the game that way, with their characters gaining their powers mid-session.

Psikerlord
2017-11-14, 08:32 PM
What you call declaration is a staple in Theatrix called plot points. You need to get into the palace? One palace guard is an old mercenary buddy of yours, maybe you can persuade him to get you in.

It is great for world building and adding or detracting from a scene and gets the players invested. Some players hate it, some love it.

I think this is excellent and allow it as part of standard play in dnd etc. The PC background is a sentence when we start. During play it gets expanded on, and the history crystallizes. Yes, players will tend to create things that help them at first, but once facts have emerged, later additions will need to be consistent etc - all subject to GM veto

RazorChain
2017-11-14, 10:37 PM
I think this is excellent and allow it as part of standard play in dnd etc. The PC background is a sentence when we start. During play it gets expanded on, and the history crystallizes. Yes, players will tend to create things that help them at first, but once facts have emerged, later additions will need to be consistent etc - all subject to GM veto

I use it still in my games even though it's over 20 years since I last played Theatrix :smallbiggrin:

Last session one player used it to start a rumour which kinda had nothing to do with anything. But now the barrel killer is feared through the city. One PC was moving a prisoner during night time with 4 city watchmen, of course he had split from the party. A lone arbalester, which the players have dubbed simply "the sniper", started shooting them down one by one at 100 yards from a sniping position. Nobody except the sniper were able to see in the dark. The poor PC was able to hide in an alley while the arbalester used sniper tactics by wounding the watchmen and when they tried to save a buddies they got shot and killed. In the end the PC dragged couple of the watchmen, who were severly wounded, and stashed them in barrels to hide them. The PC who is rather afraid of the dark decided to leg it and hid in a stable until the morning. When others arrived at the grisly scene they found two dead watchmen, who had bled to death, in barrels and the rumours of the barrel killer started. Another PC who is a face character decided to use the opportunity to use a plot point to spread the rumours of the barrel killer.

"Go to bed or the barrel killer will take you" is now used to get children to bed :smallsmile:

2D8HP
2017-11-14, 10:42 PM
....In first edition a single failed survival roll when you went for another term killed your character, no backsies. Suiciding characters until you got decent stats was easy and common (just take 10+ terms as a Scout)....


Heh.

Even though (IIRC) other "Services" often had better skills, I liked "Scout" because if your PC re-enlisted enough (and survived), you could muster out with a starship.

Your own freakin' STARSHIP!
(Okay, so could "Merchant", but it took more years, and besides doesn't "Scout" sound cooler?).

Psikerlord
2017-11-15, 08:35 PM
I use it still in my games even though it's over 20 years since I last played Theatrix :smallbiggrin:

Last session one player used it to start a rumour which kinda had nothing to do with anything. But now the barrel killer is feared through the city. One PC was moving a prisoner during night time with 4 city watchmen, of course he had split from the party. A lone arbalester, which the players have dubbed simply "the sniper", started shooting them down one by one at 100 yards from a sniping position. Nobody except the sniper were able to see in the dark. The poor PC was able to hide in an alley while the arbalester used sniper tactics by wounding the watchmen and when they tried to save a buddies they got shot and killed. In the end the PC dragged couple of the watchmen, who were severly wounded, and stashed them in barrels to hide them. The PC who is rather afraid of the dark decided to leg it and hid in a stable until the morning. When others arrived at the grisly scene they found two dead watchmen, who had bled to death, in barrels and the rumours of the barrel killer started. Another PC who is a face character decided to use the opportunity to use a plot point to spread the rumours of the barrel killer.

"Go to bed or the barrel killer will take you" is now used to get children to bed :smallsmile:

hehe I love it

Milodiah
2017-11-20, 12:11 PM
Off of the Traveller thing, one thing I like to do is have a solo session (or small-group session for any players who want a backstory together) before the kickoff of the main game. This occurs one term before their character is "done", and instead of rolling that last term like usual the players and I sit down and decide based on what happened in said session what the finishing touches on their character should be. They get the chance to sharpen their best skills, shore up their newly discovered weaknessess, establish their characters' personalities and backstories, and all that, before the true game starts. And, in the spirit of Traveller, if you die here (I tried to avoid it, but sometimes you just can't weasel out of something), you have in fact died in character creation.