Necromancer/Bard

[lbuttitta]

How would I go about optimizing a necromancer (or... the "Necrodancer" :smallbiggrin:) with bardic music to increase her minions' effectiveness?

The build I had in mind was along the lines of dread necromancer (HoH) 6/prestige bard (UA) 2/dread witch (HoH) 5/etc. Is this suboptimal? My party is very munchkinish (is that a word?), so I'd like to challenge them. The campaign will be starting around 10th-level. I can tweak this value to match whichever level the Necrodancer would be most effective at (i.e. if the build only comes online at level 12, I could make that the starting level).
This character will be a villain, disbarring use of the feat Words of Creation (BoED), so I'm not sure how to boost the inspire courage effect to high levels.
Even more pressingly, which undead should I animate? And what should I do on the turns I'm not singing?

Any advice appreciated!

[Boggartbae]

Hrm. The best way to boost undead minions is with Corpsecrafter or Undead Mastery so that they get more HP and STR, then by fighting in the area of a desecrate spell so that they get an additional +2 to hit, damage, and HP.

If you're married to the idea of Bardic music (which you should be because it's cool :smallcool:) then what I would do is to just be a bard, and then take the Arcane Disciple feat to gain access to the death domain, which has animate dead, and then she can animate her own undead. Alternatively, you could just give this character access to animate dead as a bard just because you can, or give her intelligent minions that she's dominated with command undead, which would be another spell that she also got the ability to cast just because.

Then, for feats, take Corpsecrafter so the undead are stronger, Requiem so your bardic music affects undead, and Necromantic Might for an additional +2 to attack. Also, give her an item of continuous desecrate that counts as as altar to an evil deity for another +2 to attack and damage.

As for which minions to animate, I would do 2 hit die skeletons, then give her Destructive Retribution as a bonus feat, so that the undead explode with negative energy when they die (2 HD gives the best rate on the amount of damage dealt with that feat)

So her undead get +6 to attack, +4 to damage, +4 STR, and +4 hp/hd. You could have them fight like 20-30 skeletons at level 10, and then your Necromancer just spends her turns singing, and readying counterspells with Greater Dispel Magic to make sure her undead don't just get fireball'd away. I might even make her a higher level, so that she's better at dispelling, and so that she gets +3 with inspire courage.

[ATHATH]

I recommend using Practiced Spellcaster to return the CLs of your Necromancy spells to an acceptable/normal level.

The Fugue spell is pretty good if you can pump your Perform check.

Remember that Prestige Bard only adds spells that are (normally) ONLY on the Bard spell list to your spell list, so it won't give you access to stuff like Otto's Irresistible Dance.

[Nifft]

How about...

NE Druid 1 / Necromancer 5 / Ur-Priest 2 / Heartfire Fanner 3 / Fochlucan Lyrist 8

"Yes, I am technically a Druid who sings Bard songs."

[ATHATH]

How about...

NE Druid 1 / Necromancer 5 / Ur-Priest 2 / Heartfire Fanner 3 / Fochlucan Lyrist 8

"Yes, I am technically a Druid who sings Bard songs."
Why is the Druid part in there? If it's for thematics, wouldn't it be more thematic to go into Blighter instead of Ur-Priest (you'd have to shift the build around a bit in order to do that, of course)?

@OP: Oh, and remember that you can't cast (or was it prepare?) a spell unless you have the minimum CL required in order to do so ((2*the spell's level)-1, IIRC).

[Telonius]

Why is the Druid part in there? If it's for thematics, wouldn't it be more thematic to go into Blighter instead of Ur-Priest (you'd have to shift the build around a bit in order to do that, of course)?

@OP: Oh, and remember that you can't cast (or was it prepare?) a spell unless you have the minimum CL required in order to do so ((2*the spell's level)-1, IIRC).

Speak Language (Druidic) is a prereq for Fochlucan Lyrist; so you need a level of Druid (unless you can convince the DM you somehow listened in on Druid School, or got an ex-Druid to teach you).

[Nifft]

Why is the Druid part in there? Prereq for Fochlucan Lyrist includes Speak Language: Druidic, which is a secret language that can't be learned cheaply.

Perhaps a sneaky player could cheese it somehow, but one level of Druid is pretty great if you take sufficient ACFs to front-load the class even further: Druidic Avenger + Deadly Hunter at the very least.
- Wisdom to AC
- Speed +10 ft.
- Rage 1/day (=> Whirling Frenzy 1/day)
- Favored Enemy
- Track bonus feat

It's tough to beat the sheer concentration of perks that can be stuffed into 1 level of Druid.

Also the +2.5 Fort save is helpful to qualify for Ur-Priest.

[NecroDancer]

So you could go wizard into prestige bard with the feat skill knowledge to get access to the perform skill but you'd need approval to 1. Use the prestige bard and 2. Use the skill knowledge feat (both of which are UA).

[gorfnab]

Bard 8/ Pale Master 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Pale Master 8
Bard 7/ Diresinger 2/ Pale Master 1/ Sublime Chord 2/ Pale Master 8
Bard 7/ Diresinger 2/ Pale Master 1/ Sublime Chord 1/ Pale Master 9
Requires the feat Arcane Disciple (CD): Necromancer Domain (ECS page 107)

Dread Necromancer 8/ Heartfire Fanner (Drg #314) 1/ Vitruoso 1/ Sublime Chord 2/ Virtuoso 8 - Requires the Apprentice: Entertainer (DMG II) feat

Dread Necromancer 9/ Prestige Bard 1/ Virtuoso 10 - Requires Apprentice: Entertainer and Arcane Disciple: Illusion Domain.

[Telonius]

This one doesn't really "turn on" as a villain until level 12, but:
Bard1/(Ex-)Paladin5/Dirgesinger5/Bone Knight9
(Used it in a Villainous Competition (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19308582&postcount=40) a while back). The build incorporates a few things that have already been suggested (Requiem, Corpsecrafter), and gives a bunch of thematic undead-controlling goodies.

[Anthrowhale]

The Mother Cyst feat + the Versatile Spellcaster feat allows you to dominate humanoids on access to 3rd level spells and all creatures on access to 6th level spells.

Song of the Dead makes mind-affecting spells apply to undead and converts them into necromancy spells. This allows Charm Monster to apply to non-mindless undead giving effective non-rebuke control over a large number of undead.

Consider something like Bard 6/Lyric Thaumaturge 3/Bard 1/Sublime Chord n with feats:
(Human) Versatile Spellcaster
1. Mother Cyst
3. Song of the Dead
6. Melodic Casting
9. Channel Charge

At level 10 you can dominate any humanoid via Necrotic Domination and this is not a mind-affecting spell. You can also use Charm Monster on any undead. You can also use Channel Charge to trigger wands or staffs without expending a charge. Remember that a wand or staff with 1 charge is 1/50th price to increase spell access as desired for access to Animate Dead (for example). Melodic Casting also allows you to use Channel Charge while performing bardic music.

At level 13 you can additionally dominate any living creature via Necrotic Domination and this is not a mind-affecting spell.