Help with Illusion Magic

[Isaire]

Hi all!

So, we have an illusion focused wizard in our party, so illusions come up quite a lot. But the spell descriptions in the phb can be kind of vague (creature, object, or other visual phenomenon), so I'm curious what spell (or how to use the spell, how many actions required etc) you think would be necessary for the following illusion:

you appear to cast fireball into the sky, causing a creature to come down and appear close to you, the creature then casts fireball at you and kills you, leaving a pile of ash where your body was (and you are hidden by this).

(for context, happened in a hand-wavey pocket dimension belonging to some night hag, the fireball illusion was to simulate provoking her into appearing and attacking).

Thanks in advance :)

[Unoriginal]

Hi all!

So, we have an illusion focused wizard in our party, so illusions come up quite a lot. But the spell descriptions in the phb can be kind of vague (creature, object, or other visual phenomenon), so I'm curious what spell (or how to use the spell, how many actions required etc) you think would be necessary for the following illusion:

you appear to cast fireball into the sky, causing a creature to come down and appear close to you, the creature then casts fireball at you and kills you, leaving a pile of ash where your body was (and you are hidden by this).

(for context, happened in a hand-wavey pocket dimension belonging to some night hag, the fireball illusion was to simulate provoking her into appearing and attacking).

Thanks in advance :)

Just to be clear, both the first fireball, the creature, the second fireball and the pile of ash are illusory, right?

[Isaire]

Just to be clear, both the first fireball, the creature, the second fireball and the pile of ash are illusory, right?

Yes, exactly. And the wizard hides himself in the illusion (but lets not debate the hide rules here, our DM is much looser on RAW than I would be..).

[QuintonBeck]

I feel like Major Image covers this. Just don't forget an observer can make an Investigation check vs the Spell DC to see through it.

[Unoriginal]

Well, you could do it with a combination of a few Minor Illusion (fireball + ashes), Major Image or Programmed (creature) and Project Image (you getting fireball'd). Or just a few castings of Major Image.

[Isaire]

I feel like Major Image covers this. Just don't forget an observer can make an Investigation check vs the Spell DC to see through it.

Possibly. The description for Major Image suggests that it would take further actions to make things move though.

And you might have to change the spell from fireball, as fireball is twice as large as the size of Major Image :/

[JackPhoenix]

Illusions can't make you invisible, and you'll have to stick to their area... so no "fireball to the sky and back" when you're limited to 15-20' cube, and no hiding unless you make the "pile of ash" bigger than you and try to hide behind it.

[Unoriginal]

Illusions can't make you invisible, and you'll have to stick to their area... so no "fireball to the sky and back" when you're limited to 15-20' cube, and no hiding unless you make the "pile of ash" bigger than you and try to hide behind it.

Invisibility is an Illusion spell, JackPhoenix.

Though I got the impression the caster was hiding mundanely and was just having an illusion of themselves get hit.

[JackPhoenix]

Invisibility is an Illusion spell, JackPhoenix.

Though I got the impression the caster was hiding mundanely and was just having an illusion of themselves get hit.

Invisibility is a specific spell that, while belonging to the illusion school, doesn't have anything to do with OP's question (which talks about Silent/Major Image or Programmed Illusion, hard to say, he doesn't mentions specific spell).

But yes, the description of what he's trying to do isn't very clear.

[Isaire]

But yes, the description of what he's trying to do isn't very clear.

Ah sorry, it isn't very clear because it really wasn't all that clear to me in session either :P

In session, this all happened as a result of a single casting of major image (including the caster being hidden from the person looking for him at the end, presumably behind some part of the illusion but honestly that part isn't clear to me at all - I think he was "hiding" in the pile of ash)

Rather than bitch about a stupid occurence, I'm more interested in how I could actually make this series of events occur, as I'm probably going to DM for him at some point and am interested in how I could do it better, and pointers I could give him to achieve what he wants within the rules.

So, if your answer was to cast Major Image a few times and then use Invisiblity, that is a valid answer. I'm just curious how others would attempt this if they were a player / DM.

[tieren]

I'd allow it with a single casting of Major Image and consumption of 3 actions (moving fireball up to 120 feet up; moving fireball back down; changing appearance of illusion to pile of ash).

[Isaire]

I'd allow it with a single casting of Major Image and consumption of 3 actions (moving fireball up to 120 feet up; moving fireball back down; changing appearance of illusion to pile of ash).

Yeah, I guess that sounds pretty reasonable. Thanks :)

[Tanarii]

Yeah you have to watch out with Illusions. Players love to have them be endlessly complex things well beyond what the spell says it can do.

This is at least three castings of Major image, unless it's cast by an Illusionist using Malleable Illusions. Fireball, a moving creature, fireball leaving ashes.

Also, the caster may not be able to hide under anything a Major Image illusion creates unless it's layered around them somehow, without touching them. If something physically interacts with the illusion physically, it's revealed for what it is, and it will become faint to any creature that observes that interaction. (That said, there's some leeway here for a DM to rule that the interaction has to happen in a way that something passes through the illusion, due to the PHB wording.)

Edit: to be clear, at the minimum to hide under a pile of ashes it'd need to be suspiciously body shaped. :smallwink: But larger than the casters actual body, regardless.

[EvilAnagram]

Could a wood elf hide if they were lightly obscured by an illusion?

[Unoriginal]

Could a wood elf hide if they were lightly obscured by an illusion?

No.

It needs to be a natural phenomenon.