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Hootman
2017-11-07, 08:59 AM
In trying to build a classic dungeon-delving tomb-robbing smartypants, I've made a very frustrating discovery: none of the existing character classes actually fit the way I want them to.

Bard is a party-focused buffmaster and based on Charisma, not Intelligence. I feel like this character needs to be more able to stand alone.
Wizard is Int-based, but is fragile and entirely reliant on magic to get things done. I don't want to feel like I have to pick up all the "correct" spells or be useless.
Rogue has to be Sneak Attacking every round in combat, and has no use for Int either. I just can't get the backstabber image out of my head.

I feel like the old 3.5 Factotum is closer to what I want--a skillmonkey that can still fight with a mix of different abilities, that solves problems by out-thinking them rather than crushing them with pure physique or magical might.

Am I just being unreasonable in my expectations, or is there something I'm missing? How would you build a character like this?

Zonugal
2017-11-07, 09:12 AM
I think you could probably approach this type of character with a a build of an Arcane Trickster rogue and two levels of fighter. With fighter you can grab the Mariner fighting style, providing you with some needed defense & mobility. For added comfort stack on to it either Variant Human or Half-Elf, and the Archeologist background from Tomb of Annihilation.

Cybren
2017-11-07, 09:15 AM
How isn't a bard exactly what you want here? Bards aren't "party focused buffers", they're jack-of-all-trades characters with access to spellcasting, expertise, and if you go valor, weapon and armor proficiency. The variety of class features gives you lots of different abilities that give you the ability to out-think your opponents, and the actual ability named Jack of All Trades means your seat-of-the-pants plans that come down to ability checks are better than anyone else's. Put expertise in the skills you think are most appropriate to Lara Crofting and take the Dungeon Delver feat. If you don't like that Bardic Inspiration can only be used on other people, play a lore bard. Now you can use it on yourself.

mephnick
2017-11-07, 09:33 AM
Rogues have a use for INT if your DM runs the game properly and you actually want to disable traps. Investigation is an INT skill and rogues can definitely afford to put points in it.

Sneak attacks don't have to be backstabs, refluff them as recognizing weak points. Rogue builds are perfect for tomb raiders if you can come to terms with some new fluff.

Cybren
2017-11-07, 09:34 AM
Rogues have a use for INT if your DM runs the game properly and you actually want to disable traps. Investigation is an INT skill and rogues can definitely afford to put points in it.

Sneak attacks don't have to be backstabs, refluff them as recognizing weak points. Rogue builds are perfect for tomb raiders if you can come to terms with some new fluff.
A swashbuckler would need no refluffing for how their sneak attack worked

2D8HP
2017-11-07, 09:40 AM
Archeologist Background from Tomb of Annihilation, and some levels in Fighter and (especially) Rogue.

Urchin background is good as well.

IIRC correctly, there were some Underdark specialist backgrounds and sub-classes in Out of the Abyss that may be what you're looking for (my book is too deep in my garage to check right now).

Throne12
2017-11-07, 10:34 AM
I would say a pure Thief Rogue. With the new Archeologist back ground with the 3 feats dungeon delver, Observant, and alert. You could probably drop alert if you want. For stats dex,int,con,wis then cha,str. Your going to want Dex as high as possible then Int and con as high as can be. Then put what you can in wis. Then take Expertise in Perception do to lower wis.

MrStabby
2017-11-07, 02:28 PM
Hmm. Knowledge cleric 2, rogue (arcane trickster)X?

This should be good at raiding tombs. Cleric gives Any skill you need, expertise in some key skills, some spells useful for survival, turn undead (for some reason tombs seem to have undead in them) and then spells on top of that - many great for a dungeon set of encounters.

Rogue rounds out skill monkey a bit with a broad selection of skills, more expertise, damage, access to more spells, use magic device, solid damage, reliable talent, extra ASI to compensate for the multiclass.

The other class that might be good in a tomb is a warlock - invocations for devil's sight, eyes of the rune keeper and all kinds of other arcane goodness.

8wGremlin
2017-11-07, 03:32 PM
go Rogue first then Cleric?

Afrodactyl
2017-11-07, 03:59 PM
A human archaeologist rogue with a whip and hand crossbow.

Deathly afraid of snakes.

Grod_The_Giant
2017-11-07, 05:00 PM
I toyed with that a bunch too, though I'm a little happier to use Arcane Trickster than you. If that doesn't appeal, something like a Fighter 1/Abjuration Wizard makes for a pretty rocking Int-based generalist. Booming Blade plus Mobile or Spell Sniper* gets you solid melee capabilities; Arcane Ward + Tough means your hit points are on par with a frontline specialist; you've got a combat style to work with to boost offense or defense as you need; tons of spells for utility and defense... I used it a few times and it was excellent.

If UA is available, Mystics make excellent Int-based skillmonkey-generalist types.

*Bonus points for using a whip!

Theodoxus
2017-11-08, 06:59 AM
I built a tomb raider for a campaign a while back, though I swapped out, as the game wasn't a dungeon crawl, but overland hacknslash, but I digress...

I went Half-elf Knowledge Cleric/Lore Bard. All the knowledge skills, with Expertise, exploration magic, a ton of skills to help the party... he was a lot of fun, just wasn't in his element. If I were to play ToA, I'd reroll this character in a heartbeat.

JAL_1138
2017-11-08, 11:29 AM
Swashbuckler rogues don't need an ally within 5ft for Sneak Attack, so that could work.

After about level 8 or 9, an archery-focused Valor Bard or Fighter 1/ Valor Bard with Sharpshooter and Crossbow Expert can do just about all you need for dungeon delving. Shoot a crossbow, cast spells as a fullcaster (including healing), find traps with Expertise in Perception, stealth with Expertise...take proficiency in thieves' tools for locks and traps; it's not as good as Expertise, but between your Dex and Proficiency you should be fine. Once you can start using Greater Invisibility for Advantage on Sharpshooter shots, or taking 4 attacks with Swift Quiver, your damage output is pretty decent, enough to get by although you won't win any prizes. Problem: until mid-levels, you're a squishy who isn't that good at dealing damage and isn't an especially-great fullcaster either due to a limited spell list of spells known rather than spells prepared; getting there is gonna be a slog, especially if you're trying to work solo. Also a problem: your Bardic Inspiration variant, Combat Inspiration, can't be used on yourself so it goes to waste without a group. Also also a problem: while you can heal a bit, you aren't especially good at it like a Paladin or Life Cleric would be.

Klorox
2017-11-09, 07:13 AM
A human archaeologist rogue with a whip and hand crossbow.

Deathly afraid of snakes.

Now we’re talking! 😎🤠

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