Worm 2 is on the way

[J-H]

Wildbow has a series of prelude chapters (PHO interludes/chats/PMs) posted:
https://parahumans.wordpress.com/2017/10/21/glowworm-p-1/

Chapter 1 should go live on Saturday as a link in the last prelude.

This is set after the post-Golden Morning diaspora.

[Rynjin]

Yupyupyup.

The prelude chapters have already been very intriguing. Coming off of Twig (easily Wildbow's best story so far) I'm VERY interested to see what Worm 2 incorporates of the things he's learned about writing and narrative over the years.

[Forum Explorer]

Yupyupyup.

The prelude chapters have already been very intriguing. Coming off of Twig (easily Wildbow's best story so far) I'm VERY interested to see what Worm 2 incorporates of the things he's learned about writing and narrative over the years.

I couldn't get into Twig, because children. But I've got high hopes for Worm 2. Though I was kinda hoping he'd clean up Worm first.

[Eldan]

Maybe I'll have to give Twig another look. I read three or four chapters and found it quite uninteresting.

[Rynjin]

I couldn't get into Twig, because children. But I've got high hopes for Worm 2. Though I was kinda hoping he'd clean up Worm first.

I mean, the protagonists of Worm are children too. And only 2-3 years older than the Twig protags in some cases. Plus the story takes place over a pretty long period of time (quite a few years), and not in the same way Worm does (just skipping ahead a massive amount of time toward the end)

I cannot recommend Twig enough. Wildbow stepped out of his comfort zone (specifically) to try and provide a more character driven story and he does an excellent job. The Lambs are the most complex, emotionally and motivationally, characters he's ever written. Even some of the relatively short-lived side characters have as much depth or more as many of the Undersiders.

Sylvester is currently a top contender for favorite characters in any work of fiction I've ever read.

The story has its stumbling blocks (as every Wildbow story does as real life intrudes and the writing falls down a bit for an arc or two) but even its lowest point is still better than the average Pact arc. The main gripes I could see about it is it's slow to start, the worldbuilding is very vague in the first couple of arcs, and (as always) the combat scenes can be very...unclear as to what's going on, but once it builds up some steam it just gets better and better with every passing chapter barring a very few exceptions.

[Rakaydos]

I'm reading twig now, up through arc 3 now.

The viewpoint character is a more deliberate Miles Vorkosigan who's immune to poison, and his teammates are a genetically engineered Ivan vorpatril with a brain, a still growing Stepford Wife pod person assassin, and a bookworm with perfect memory. Plus the "normal person" who's their medic.

In my view, this is an awesome combination. I'll start on Worm2 once I've caught up on twig, which could be awhile.

[Forum Explorer]

I mean, the protagonists of Worm are children too. And only 2-3 years older than the Twig protags in some cases. Plus the story takes place over a pretty long period of time (quite a few years), and not in the same way Worm does (just skipping ahead a massive amount of time toward the end)

I cannot recommend Twig enough. Wildbow stepped out of his comfort zone (specifically) to try and provide a more character driven story and he does an excellent job. The Lambs are the most complex, emotionally and motivationally, characters he's ever written. Even some of the relatively short-lived side characters have as much depth or more as many of the Undersiders.

Sylvester is currently a top contender for favorite characters in any work of fiction I've ever read.

The story has its stumbling blocks (as every Wildbow story does as real life intrudes and the writing falls down a bit for an arc or two) but even its lowest point is still better than the average Pact arc. The main gripes I could see about it is it's slow to start, the worldbuilding is very vague in the first couple of arcs, and (as always) the combat scenes can be very...unclear as to what's going on, but once it builds up some steam it just gets better and better with every passing chapter barring a very few exceptions.

They felt younger. *shrug*

I can't remember how long I stuck with it, so maybe I'll give it another try.

[J-H]

I somehow managed to stick all the way through Pact, but regret it. I dropped Twig around chapter 20 or so. There was some kind of lockdown and horror-show people-zombie-things in a big underground area. It looked like it was just going to be more/too much grimdark.

Despite "And things get worse," Worm still had hope in it. Pact was hopeless, the drawn-out destruction of a doomed man living in a "burn it with fire" world, and Twig looked like it was going to be similarly dark as well.

[Rakaydos]

I somehow managed to stick all the way through Pact, but regret it. I dropped Twig around chapter 20 or so. There was some kind of lockdown and horror-show people-zombie-things in a big underground area. It looked like it was just going to be more/too much grimdark.

Despite "And things get worse," Worm still had hope in it. Pact was hopeless, the drawn-out destruction of a doomed man living in a "burn it with fire" world, and Twig looked like it was going to be similarly dark as well.

You forgot that the protagonists are just as much monsters as anything else down there. (except normal-girl) That arc was an interesting twist on what you thought it would be.

[Rynjin]

I somehow managed to stick all the way through Pact, but regret it. I dropped Twig around chapter 20 or so. There was some kind of lockdown and horror-show people-zombie-things in a big underground area. It looked like it was just going to be more/too much grimdark.

Despite "And things get worse," Worm still had hope in it. Pact was hopeless, the drawn-out destruction of a doomed man living in a "burn it with fire" world, and Twig looked like it was going to be similarly dark as well.

It's kinda funny, while there's some dark **** in Twig, it has overall a much more hopeful tone and ending than any of the other two stories. It is very much a story of triumphing through adversity, though much is sacrificed along the way.

Twig is never "grimdark", it doesn't revel in darkness and evil and fetishize it like that word implies. It's just a ****ed up universe full of ****ed up people trying to do the best they can to make the world a better place and succeeding in small and large ways along the way.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

I can't wait for Saturday! Wildbow has improved tremendously as a writer over the years, but to me there's no doubt that Worm is his best 'verse.

[Rater202]

The Ninth prolog chapter won me a months-long argument.

Honestly, I'm probably going to be binging chapters of this every couple of months unless something major to catch my eye happens.

I'm kind of hoping that Riley has a significant role at some point because she's my favorite character in the original.

I've kind of got a bet going on another forum that our new Protagonist will die eight arcs in and be replaced by Taylor, incredibly pissed that she has to do this stuff again, coming back into the spotlight.

Partially as a call back to Wildbow literally rolling dice to determine if Taylor lived or died in the eighth arc of Worm and partially becuase Wildbow is kind of a troll and it'd be the ultimate troll move.

[Forum Explorer]

The Ninth prolog chapter won me a months-long argument.

Honestly, I'm probably going to be binging chapters of this every couple of months unless something major to catch my eye happens.

I'm kind of hoping that Riley has a significant role at some point because she's my favorite character in the original.

I've kind of got a bet going on another forum that our new Protagonist will die eight arcs in and be replaced by Taylor, incredibly pissed that she has to do this stuff again, coming back into the spotlight.

Partially as a call back to Wildbow literally rolling dice to determine if Taylor lived or died in the eighth arc of Worm and partially becuase Wildbow is kind of a troll and it'd be the ultimate troll move.

What was the argument out of curiosity?


Which way are you betting? Cause I'll take that bet.

[Rater202]

What was the argument out of curiosity? A few months ago I argued that, while her pranks were juvenile in comparison, Madison Clemments was arguably the worst of the trio on the grounds that she doesn't really have a reason for bullying Taylor.

And then low and behold, in the sequel Madison herself out and stats that she (was at the time) just a horrible person who didn't have a reason for being such a bitch.

Which way are you betting? Cause I'll take that bet.

that it will happen. It's not a serious bet, but you can bet that if it happens I'll be rubbing it in people's faces that I called it.

[Kantaki]

Count me among those who recommend reading Twig.

And after the Prologue-arc I'm really hyped for Worm 2 now.
So much interesting stuff that was hinted at...
I wonder how much of it will come up in the story.

Also, Sveta and Weld are still around.Yay.:smallbiggrin:

[J-H]

I don't read through the comment chains (too long). We've got Madison, Weld, Sveta, and probably either Laserdream or Glory Girl.
Anyone else identified?

[Rater202]

Well, first chapters out.And I'm kind of disapointed that Vickey is our MC.

[Dragonus45]

Well, first chapters out.And I'm kind of disapointed that Vickey is our MC.

Why? Personally I find the idea of looking at things from her new perspective after the events of the first story fascinating. I'm also interested in seeing if WB is going to go even father outside of his comfort zone then he did with Twig by writing a protagonist who is actually good in a fight by keeping some or all of her powers.

Also it's likely we may be seeing something with a wider range of viewpoints so no need to worry to much yet.

[Rater202]

Why? Personally I find the idea of looking at things from her new perspective after the events of the first story fascinating. I'm also interested in seeing if WB is going to go even father outside of his comfort zone then he did with Twig by writing a protagonist who is actually good in a fight by keeping some or all of her powers.

Also it's likely we may be seeing something with a wider range of viewpoints so no need to worry to much yet.

Becuase it means that Amy is probably going to factor heavily in the story, and Amy is plot-cancer what with her power that half the fanbase insists invalidates a good number of the heavy hitters in the setting.

And unless it gets revealed that Riley did the Dallons a solid to make up for what she did during Amy's interlude, Amy would have had to have somehow gotten her shard to stop being a jackass for Vickey to not be a Shoggoth.

[Kantaki]

Well, this should be fun.:smallamused:
So many open questions already...

[Forum Explorer]

Well I'm more curious how Victoria stopped being a messed up monster. I don't mind her as a MC, and I honestly thought you'd be happy Rater. Because if Amy is involved, I imagine Riley will be too.

Though I get the feeling that Wildbow might change it up and make every one in the group a point of view character.

[Rater202]

Well I'm more curious how Victoria stopped being a messed up monster. I don't mind her as a MC, and I honestly thought you'd be happy Rater. Because if Amy is involved, I imagine Riley will be too.

Though I get the feeling that Wildbow might change it up and make everyone in the group a point of view character.

Let's just say that Amy's incessant fans and all the power-wanking they've done for her already plot-cancer powers have killed whatever sympathy I may have had for her character.

Also... She violated the Hippocratic oath in the chapter where she claimed to have taken it and is kind of an idiot(Protip, if bankrobber hasa knife to your throat, don't threaten to use your super-powers to mutilate them if you can't actually use your powers on that specific individual.)

[Forum Explorer]

Let's just say that Amy's incessant fans and all the power-wanking they've done for her already plot-cancer powers have killed whatever sympathy I may have had for her character.

Also... She violated the Hippocratic oath in the chapter where she claimed to have taken it and is kind of an idiot(Protip, if bankrobber hasa knife to your throat, don't threaten to use your super-powers to mutilate them if you can't actually use your powers on that specific individual.)

I'm usually pretty good about keeping fans separate from the thing they are fans about.

But yeah, I do feel bad for Amy. More then any other character, I feel like she was basically a child soldier. She was used and abused for her power while the other heroes actually got support, attention, and money. While she was almost forced to deal with horribly wounded people every day, basically by herself, for free.

She wasn't all that old, so I don't think you could say the Oath applied to her anyways. But yeah, she was kinda an idiot. Her worst idiocy moment in my mind has to be not trusting the people currently saving you from the SH9.

[Rater202]

I'm usually pretty good about keeping fans separate from the thing they are fans about.

But yeah, I do feel bad for Amy. More then any other character, I feel like she was basically a child soldier. She was used and abused for her power while the other heroes actually got support, attention, and money. While she was almost forced to deal with horribly wounded people every day, basically by herself, for free.

She wasn't all that old, so I don't think you could say the Oath applied to her anyways. But yeah, she was kinda an idiot. Her worst idiocy moment in my mind has to be not trusting the people currently saving you from the SH9.


I disagree. The most child soldier character was Riley(fighting a War of Violent Anarchistic Nihilism* at the best of her serial killer foster-father, but a war none the less.)

Bonesaw is textbook cult indoctrination via psychological manipulation and emotional abuse(Though her Shard's conflict drive and the young age a which she triggered, 4-6 by my math, can't possibly have helped.)

*People compare Jack Slash to the Joker a lot, but personally I think he's a bit closer to Carnage(He and a Clone of Carnage are bros in one of my Worm Crossover Fanfiction.)

[Forum Explorer]

I disagree. The most child soldier character was Riley(fighting a War of Violent Anarchistic Nihilism* at the best of her serial killer foster-father, but a war none the less.)

Bonesaw is textbook cult indoctrination via psychological manipulation and emotional abuse(Though her Shard's conflict drive and the young age a which she triggered, 4-6 by my math, can't possibly have helped.)

*People compare Jack Slash to the Joker a lot, but personally I think he's a bit closer to Carnage(He and a Clone of Carnage are bros in one of my Worm Crossover Fanfiction.)

Could be. I felt that was more of being sucked into a cult. They are very similar though, so maybe I'm just splitting hairs. Regardless of most though, I'm still sympathetic to Amy, while really wanting to slap her upside the head.

[Kantaki]

Well, isn't this situation just great?
I'm sure everything will be resolved peacefully and nobody will get hurt.
No. Wait.
That's a lie.
I mean the exact opposite. We're talking about Wildbow there.

The only question is how many of Victoria's teammates will side with the mob.
I guess at least Jester should be on her side.
But four or five parahumans, a few cops and a handful of soldiers against a veritable tidal wave of angry people doesn't look good even if they're all loyal.

But the new Capes are interesting.
Crystalclear seems to be a Case 53 or at least a Cauldron parahuman- maybe from Gold Morning?- and claws guy is either the same or a Tinker...

Wait a moment!
Could those be the guys from the Glow-Worm arc?
Or not. I think Sveta was involved with them.
But the Claw might be connected to the Cluster Trigger.
At the very least their chapter seems relevant there.

Edit: Looking at the (two) arc names so far, I guess we get a light-theme for this story?
Would fit the whole „Dawn of a new worlds thing.”

As does the golden cityscape.
Although that one still feels kinda „distasteful”/„wrong” to me, considering the end of Worm.
Seems to me as if seeing everything shine gold every day isn't conductive to closing all those wounds that those events caused.

[Forum Explorer]

Well, isn't this situation just great?
I'm sure everything will be resolved peacefully and nobody will get hurt.
No. Wait.
That's a lie.
I mean the exact opposite. We're talking about Wildbow there.

The only question is how many of Victoria's teammates will side with the mob.
I guess at least Jester should be on her side.
But four or five parahumans, a few cops and a handful of soldiers against a veritable tidal wave of angry people doesn't look good even if they're all loyal.

But the new Capes are interesting.
Crystalclear seems to be a Case 53 or at least a Cauldron parahuman- maybe from Gold Morning?- and claws guy is either the same or a Tinker...

Wait a moment!
Could those be the guys from the Glow-Worm arc?
Or not. I think Sveta was involved with them.
But the Claw might be connected to the Cluster Trigger.
At the very least their chapter seems relevant there.

Edit: Looking at the (two) arc names so far, I guess we get a light-theme for this story?
Would fit the whole „Dawn of a new worlds thing.”

As does the golden cityscape.
Although that one still feels kinda „distasteful”/„wrong” to me, considering the end of Worm.
Seems to me as if seeing everything shine gold every day isn't conductive to closing all those wounds that those events caused.

I had a funny thought. What if this Victoria was from another dimension and isn't actually a cape? I mean, the weight of the gear should be nothing to Glory Girl. But it's a factor for Victoria.

The golden cityscape did make me facepalm. But I suppose a lot of people don't actually know Scion was responsible. Scion hit too hard and too fast for people to realize what was doing the damage. It was only the Capes who fought him and walked away. And none of them are talking about it.

[Rater202]

I had a funny thought. What if this Victoria was from another dimension and isn't actually a cape? I mean, the weight of the gear should be nothing to Glory Girl. But it's a factor for Victoria.

The golden cityscape did make me facepalm. But I suppose a lot of people don't actually know Scion was responsible. Scion hit too hard and too fast for people to realize what was doing the damage. It was only the Capes who fought him and walked away. And none of them are talking about it.

I don't think the events that led to the birth of Victoria Dallon would have happened in any other world.

I mean, I don't think Mark and Carol would have met if it weren't for the Brockton Bay Brigade.

We know that it's possible to depower a cape or alter her powers. It's possible that whatever was used to make Vickey not be a shoggoth anymore resulted in the loss or reduction of her power.

(I mean, at beare minimum for her to be able to walk again would require a significant portion of her brain to be rewired. Corona could have been fried.)

Alternatively, if her strength is a fuction of her forcefield... Glory Girl was at Golden Morning and somehow faught(Under Khepri's controll.)

Her shield will always block one attack, so even an attack strong enough to bring it down won't hurt her if it's one continues attack. Wildbow stated that she'd be able to tank Scion's "Golden ****-off Beam," the one that's a fuction of his power nullifying wavelength stilling and kills basically anything that it hits, but that her shield would be down for a long, long time afterward.

Maybe that happened and it's still down?

[BRC]

The most likely candidates for restoring Victoria would be Amy or Bonesaw, either of which would be capable of de-powering her, intentionally or otherwise (Contessa did it with a bullet after all).

My guess is Amy. Intentionally de-powering Victoria seems like an odd choice unless she specifically requested it, which she might have if she wanted to get away from Cape Stuff. That said, she's seeking out cape-stuff info and doing a cape-stuff job, so that seems unlikely.

Alternatively, her powers could still be recharging from the GM. I'm not sure how much I like that answer though, that sounds like WildBow just has a convenient button he can push to switch from Unpowered to Super-Powered mode.

OR, plot twist, she's actually Amy Dallon, having died her hair and taken her sister's name for some bizzare reason. That doesn't fit with a lot of the stuff "Victoria" has been saying about being aware of her body.


My personal theory is that Victoria DOES have her powers, but she's not using them. Specifically, she hates the idea of using her Charisma Aura, between what that did to Amy (and the consequences that led into), and the experience of being controlled by Kheprii, she's rightfully disgusted by the thought of using any sort of mental manipulation power. By suppressing her Aura, she's also suppressing her force field, with the associated flight and superstrength it provides, giving no ground to her Passenger.
Potentially, she had Amy depower her post-GM, if it's not so much Cape Stuff she wants to avoid, but her specific powerset.


As for the golden cityscape, it sounds like that's just a side-effect of using a lot of solar glass, which makes a lot of sense for this new megalopolis assuming they were able to get the infrastructure to mass-produce the stuff.

[Rater202]

If Applehood or whatever she's going by was associated with Blasto... and they specifically mentioned Blasto being taken out by the nine.

I want to see an awkward conversation between her and Riley now.

"I'm really sorry about that whole 'murdering your boyfriend in horrific fashion' thing... You know, surprisingly, this is the first time I've had to say that."

[Kantaki]

So, Victoria still has her powers.
And tries to resolve the situation without escalating things.

It even works.
Unfortunatly some dude explodes into a cloud of mind-controlling bits.
(That I get to write a sentence like that says a lot about the Worm-verse. And Wildbow's stories in general.)
And then the real attack starts with a truck at ramming speed.

From the way this went it seems the actual threat isn't the mob, but another group of para-humans.
Considering the delightful Master-power that was just demonstrated that will get ugly.

[Kantaki]

What is it with the Worm-verse and superpowers straight out of horror movies?
First the Undersiders, then the Nine, now these clowns...

Nursery's... „nursery” definitely takes the cake so far.:smalleek:
Well, in Ward at least.
Can't blame Vicky for running when the babies started to wake.:eek:
In fact, I doubt I would have made it that far into that pocket dimension.

Also, pushing a parahumans fear/panic/trauma buttons is a bad idea even in the best cases.
With Vicky?
Yeah, this will be ugly.

[InvisibleBison]

Something odd I noticed in the most recent update: Victoria/Glory Girl was part of New Wave, whose whole thing was not having secret identities. So how is it that this Landon guy is familiar enough with capes to recognize her as Glory Girl by seeing her using her powers, but not familiar enough with capes to recognize her as Glory Girl based on her name and appearance?

[Dragonus45]

Something odd I noticed in the most recent update: Victoria/Glory Girl was part of New Wave, whose whole thing was not having secret identities. So how is it that this Landon guy is familiar enough with capes to recognize her as Glory Girl by seeing her using her powers, but not familiar enough with capes to recognize her as Glory Girl based on her name and appearance?

Presumably he was aware of her powers in a more general sense, plus he was under the impression she had died during the S9 incident so he was unlikely to make that connection.

[wybrand]

Man, I'm loving how straight up cool some of these characters' powers are. Starting out with an awesome parahuman brawl like this is definitely making me excited.

[Kantaki]

Well, that was that.
Vicky's out of a job, Carol is still a great mom and the forcefield is still blob-shaped.

On the plus side Yamada.

I can understand that Carol wants her family to be family again, but this was easily the second worst way to do this. Maybe third.
Oh well, all parahumans being messed up in some way isn't exactly news at this point...

How did people in the comments put it?
Vicky needs her own Undersiders?
I think I agree with this.
In the „people she can trust” sense, not the „villain team” sense.

Fortunately Mrs. Yamada makes things a bit better.
Just by showing up.
Are we sure she isn't a parahuman?

[Iruka]

Well, that was that.
Vicky's out of a job, Carol is still a great mom and the forcefield is still blob-shaped.

On the plus side Yamada.

I can understand that Carol wants her family to be family again, but this was easily the second worst way to do this. Maybe third.
Oh well, all parahumans being messed up in some way isn't exactly news at this point...

How did people in the comments put it?
Vicky needs her own Undersiders?
I think I agree with this.
In the „people she can trust” sense, not the „villain team” sense.

Fortunately Mrs. Yamada makes things a bit better.
Just by showing up.
Are we sure she isn't a parahuman?

The blob-shaped forcefield ... another reason to be reluctant about using her powers. Also explains a weirdness in 1.7, were she swings her arm at Amy while walking and it rips up the ground. She had her stretched forcefield activated.

To me, Yamada seems almost too good. Always completely understanding with her patients, always finding the right words, even when Glaistig Uaine threatens her with death. Her composure definitely seems superhuman.

[Kantaki]

The blob-shaped forcefield ... another reason to be reluctant about using her powers. Also explains a weirdness in 1.7, were she swings her arm at Amy while walking and it rips up the ground. She had her stretched forcefield activated.

To me, Yamada seems almost too good. Always completely understanding with her patients, always finding the right words, even when Glaistig Uaine threatens her with death. Her composure definitely seems superhuman.

Which is why I joked about her being a parahuman.

The only problem with that theory is that she's too... healthy to be a parahuman- even a Cauldron-Cape.
[size=1]Well, that and a few other points. Such as her being a PRT therapist in the first place. Or that she isn't particularly conflict driven.:smallamused:

Although appearing this... normal might very well be part of her power...
Nah. There's no way something like that wouldn't have come out in the worst way possible.

Let's just hope the anti-Cape mutters won't see her as a „valid“ target anyway.:smalleek:
A large number of parahumans on the warpath cause their therapist was killed is not a pleasant thought.

Edit

Well, that was interesting.
A Villain Alliance in the making, lots of names; old* and new...
Tattletale seems to have been LoL's mission control.
Also, they really seem to have had a noble-ish goal behind that attack.

And Nursery is even more messed up than I first thought.
Whether she's crazy or saying the thruth.

Snag and the clawed lady seem to be Trigger-mates. If they're connected to of5 that might not bode well for the latter.

*Looks like Biter doesn't hench for Rachel anymore.
And the bibliophile snowtops might be Damsel (One of them at least. Maybe we will get more:smallbiggrin:), according to the comments.

[Kantaki]

Well, so much for getting on a team.
Lets hope Vicky has more luck next time.

But she definitely made the right choice messing with those Fallen recruiters.
What a shame that those guys are still around.
Oh well, cockroaches survive everything I guess...
Insulting as that comparison might be.
To the roaches.:smallannoyed:

And Team Foureyes might want to reconsider their emblem.
We don't want people to make fun of them now, do we?:smallbiggrin:

[Leewei]

Well, so much for getting on a team.
Lets hope Vicky has more luck next time.

But she definitely made the right choice messing with those Fallen recruiters.
What a shame that those guys are still around.
Oh well, cockroaches survive everything I guess...
Insulting as that comparison might be.
To the roaches.:smallannoyed:

And Team Foureyes might want to reconsider their emblem.
We don't want people to make fun of them now, do we?:smallbiggrin:This serial continues to impress me. Vicky just can't win, but she goes down swinging. As smart, prepared, and powerful as she is, she's also badly damaged. I like the 'new' her, and how sympathetic and introspective she is. Glory Girl was a bit of a monster; Vicky is a professional.

[Dragonus45]

This serial continues to impress me. Vicky just can't win, but she goes down swinging. As smart, prepared, and powerful as she is, she's also badly damaged. I like the 'new' her, and how sympathetic and introspective she is. Glory Girl was a bit of a monster; Vicky is a professional.

I have never grasped why people thought Glory Girl was a monster. The worst thing she ever did was get rough with suspects. Yea, not someone to look up too but in a world like this one we see some real monsters and she doesn't even qualify for an internship there. Heck, Taylor was more of a monster then she was. Last time I checked Vicky never shot an infant.

[Kantaki]

I have never grasped why people thought Glory Girl was a monster. The worst thing she ever did was get rough with suspects. Yea, not someone to look up too but in a world like this one we see some real monsters and she doesn't even qualify for an internship there. Heck, Taylor was more of a monster then she was. Last time I checked Vicky never shot an infant.

Mostly for lack of opportunity I think.
That and she'd totally have used a dumpster.:smallbiggrin:

Besides, that kid was clearly up to no good.
Hanging out with the S9 and all.:smallamused:

[Rater202]

I have never grasped why people thought Glory Girl was a monster. The worst thing she ever did was get rough with suspects. Yea, not someone to look up too but in a world like this one we see some real monsters and she doesn't even qualify for an internship there. Heck, Taylor was more of a monster then she was. Last time I checked Vicky never shot an infant.

Victory crippled a man becuase he was rude to her.(by throwing a dumpster at him while he was limping away) Heroes and law enforcement officers are supposed to be better than that, especially when they're strong enough to benchpress a cement truck. She also enlisted the help of her sister to essentially psychologically torture the man into giving up information and not pressing excessive force charges. All of that is kind of illegal.

It is confirmed in this same chapter that she has done this exact same thing five times prior and that she never learns her lesson about excessive force.

Taylor killing Aster, on the other hand, was a Mercy kill to prevent a sadistic serial killer from torturing said infant. Choice between killing a baby and letting somebody else make it wish it was dead? No brainer.

[Leewei]

I'm pretty much in agreement with Rater202 on all points.That said, Taylor, especially as Khepri, is quite the monster herself. The Golden Morning pretty much pushed the situation past the Godzilla Threshold, and Alexandria tricked her into thinking she'd killed all of her friends, so she was still very sympathetic.

Worm 2 has the makings of a redemption story, and so has incredible potential. I expect Wildbow to make Vicky earn it, or else make a heck of a good read out of her failing.

[Forum Explorer]

Eh, I sorta disagree

Glory Girl did do some bad things, and was sorta abusive as a cop, yes. But on the other hand, she's a teenager who can depend on her sister to undo her mistakes. It's not a surprise she's reckless and entitled. Her family is also very rich, so there's that as well. She didn't even have a trigger event to smack some sense into her, considering how mild her event was.

But she certainly stood up and did her best against the real monsters. And at her worst she was a bit of a bully. It's not like she was Shadow Stalker who was fully willing to murder strangers for ultimately mild reasons. She did her best to be a hero, but considering that she wasn't really trained, was pretty entitled, had a safety net, and honestly some pretty crappy parents, it's not a surprise she wasn't the best hero. It also didn't help that the heroes in general were kinda crap. So it's not like she had a lot of good examples to look at.

[Leewei]

Eh, I sorta disagree

Glory Girl did do some bad things, and was sorta abusive as a cop, yes. But on the other hand, she's a teenager who can depend on her sister to undo her mistakes. It's not a surprise she's reckless and entitled. Her family is also very rich, so there's that as well. She didn't even have a trigger event to smack some sense into her, considering how mild her event was.

But she certainly stood up and did her best against the real monsters. And at her worst she was a bit of a bully. It's not like she was Shadow Stalker who was fully willing to murder strangers for ultimately mild reasons. She did her best to be a hero, but considering that she wasn't really trained, was pretty entitled, had a safety net, and honestly some pretty crappy parents, it's not a surprise she wasn't the best hero. It also didn't help that the heroes in general were kinda crap. So it's not like she had a lot of good examples to look at. I suppose it boils down to how you interpret the dumpster throwing. Given Panacea's disgust, it looks to be beyond merely abusive and well into life-threatening.

I'm not sure how her sister's presence makes her less monstrous. If anything, it makes it easier for her to be terrible because she can avoid the consequences of her violence.

[Kantaki]

Good Simon books?:smalleek:
Are we sure that Twig is a separate universe?:smalleek:

Either that or they consider the Lambs'- and more importantly Sy's -antics suitable reading for kids in this verse.
Not sure which thought is worse.

But it's nice to see Vicky doing hero work.
I'm sure the kids appreciated the distraction.
I just hope the girl with the „messy” power will be fine.
Considering Casey and the Trigger(s) in Rachel's epilogue I'm kinda worried.
Also, those mysterious invitations by Tempera and Yamada are very suspicious timing-wise.

A shame about that Hero Team though.
Lets hope Apple Girl gets back on her feet again with the hero stuff.

And of course Tempera and Crystal-Clear got poached by the Teams that declined Vicky.
Altough I guess the walking Jewellery will fit just fine with the Foureyes guys, going by his powers.

[Forum Explorer]

I suppose it boils down to how you interpret the dumpster throwing. Given Panacea's disgust, it looks to be beyond merely abusive and well into life-threatening.

I'm not sure how her sister's presence makes her less monstrous. If anything, it makes it easier for her to be terrible because she can avoid the consequences of her violence.

I interpret as a reckless action that certainly goes too far, but it's something that Glory Girl does because she knows Panacea will fix her mistakes.

It's not that Panacea makes her less monstrous but more. I think that if Panacea wasn't there, then Glory Girl would have made a mistake,
and actually learned from it, and become a better person as a result. And likely it wouldn't have been as bad of a mistake. But since Panacea was there, Glory Girl never got that experience until she was mutated into a monster.

Basically people act a lot more reckless when they know there won't be consequences for their actions. Glory Girl didn't want to hurt that guy, not in that manner anyways, but she knew she could take the chance that she would because Panacea would clean up after her.

[Iruka]

Good Simon books?:smalleek:
Are we sure that Twig is a separate universe?:smalleek:

Either that or they consider the Lambs'- and more importantly Sy's -antics suitable reading for kids in this verse.
Not sure which thought is worse.



Wildbow's stories all contain shoutouts or cameos or whatever you want to call them to his other works. For example the 'Maggie Holt' book series is mentioned in Worm, some dime store novels in Twig retell parts of Pact.

Wildbows comment on the question if his stories shared a multiverse was "Sure, why not? But they won’t show up."

[Dragonus45]

Wildbow's stories all contain shoutouts or cameos or whatever you want to call them to his other works. For example the 'Maggie Holt' book series is mentioned in Worm, some dime store novels in Twig retell parts of Pact.

Wildbows comment on the question if his stories shared a multiverse was "Sure, why not? But they won’t show up."



The entity mentions that it selected a specific range of Earths that were all similar to each other and locked off the rest for being too divergent for the early parts of the experiment. So it makes sense both that there are some seriously off kilter earths out there that we will also never see since that block seems pretty solid.

[Kantaki]

Wildbow's stories all contain shoutouts or cameos or whatever you want to call them to his other works. For example the 'Maggie Holt' book series is mentioned in Worm, some dime store novels in Twig retell parts of Pact.

Wildbows comment on the question if his stories shared a multiverse was "Sure, why not? But they won’t show up."



Oh, I'm aware.
Still, the thought that there's either enough contact between the Worm/Ward verse and Twig's that some Academy propaganda passed over or the bloody mess that is the Twig verse is considered appropriate for little kids was both too funny and too creepy to pass.
Doubly so since it's a picture book.:smalleek:

[Kantaki]

:smallsigh:The flirting...:smallsigh:
Go get a room kids.:smallbiggrin:

And Shortcut is a jerk.
Kinda hope he gets cut short.
I mean, there's no reason to react like that to their interaction in 1.1.

Also, I had my doubts about the situation being resolved peacefully from the start, but that broken Trigger makes that pretty much impossible.:smalleek:
Worse than my first thought.
I expected some Cape with Master/Trump powers.
Controling people and granting powers to or useing them through their marionettes.

Still worried about that girl...
Lets hope her buddy didn't make a mistake by going to the Wardens.

[Leewei]

In a world where feelings of stress, powerlessness, and isolation can spontaneously give rise to super-powered and often unhinged individuals, you'd think that entrenched powers would learn a bit about de-escalation. Then again, maybe they're trying to get more supers?

[Rater202]

In a world where feelings of stress, powerlessness, and isolation can spontaneously give rise to super-powered and often unhinged individuals, you'd think that entrenched powers would learn a bit about de-escalation. Then again, maybe they're trying to get more supers?

Shards like it when their hosts run head first into conflict.

[Kantaki]

Wouldn't be Worm-verse if people started acting sensibly.:smalltongue::smallamused:

Well, isn't that a fine mess...:smalleek:
Microwaved ice-cream is just wrong.:smallyuk:
:smalltongue:

And that Broken Trigger was horrifying.
Literally nailing the hosts in place like butterflies...:smalleek:
Some kind of space-manipulation/anchoring theme I would guess.
Plus some space-folding considering the fractal/Origami effect.

Was the one in the epilogue chapter this bad too?
I seem to recall there were survivors.
Or at least less victims.
That's on the situation though.

The worst part is that Jessica Yamada made a mistake.
Now that is a chilling thought.
So, the next chapter deals with a new S-class threat, I guess?

At least the random girl with the scary Trigger is fine.
And has a name. Hunter.
In any other universe that would grant her some safety.
There I expect her to bite it before the next arc.

[Leewei]

Wouldn't be Worm-verse if people started acting sensibly.:smalltongue::smallamused:

Well, isn't that a fine mess...:smalleek:
Microwaved ice-cream is just wrong.:smallyuk:
:smalltongue:

And that Broken Trigger was horrifying.
Literally nailing the hosts in place like butterflies...:smalleek:
Some kind of space-manipulation/anchoring theme I would guess.
Plus some space-folding considering the fractal/Origami effect.

Was the one in the epilogue chapter this bad too?
I seem to recall there were survivors.
Or at least less victims.
That's on the situation though.

The worst part is that Jessica Yamada made a mistake.
Now that is a chilling thought.
So, the next chapter deals with a new S-class threat, I guess?

At least the random girl with the scary Trigger is fine.
And has a name. Hunter.
In any other universe that would grant her some safety.
There I expect her to bite it before the next arc.People being held to the spot, melting into the ground, bodies acting together -- this almost sounds like a nascent worm trying to form itself from the trigger victims.

[Kantaki]

People being held to the spot, melting into the ground, bodies acting together -- this almost sounds like a nascent worm trying to form itself from the trigger victims.

Thank you very much for that thought.
Not like I need to sleep tonight or anything.:smalleek::smallfrown:

Fortunately the guys in charge didn't think of this.
The general area would be very welldone, Bakuda-bombed toast.

[Kantaki]

And we have our chat-group.:smallcool:
So they met over the therapy group?
Yep. Mrs. Yamada definitely messed up there.:smallbiggrin:

A(shley) is a Damsel clone. The most disturbing part of this is that I'm not sure if those are the worst News about the Team.:smalleek:
Well, at least Sveta is cute. Kinda want to hug her.:smallredface:
As potententialy self-harming that impulse might be...:smallamused:

[Rater202]

...Was expecting Riley.

Am disappoint.

[Kantaki]

Predictably Vicky is part of the new team now. Sorta.
These guys are so going to crash and burn...:smallbiggrin:

Also, could Tristan/Byron have put a hit on his twin?

And the whole two people one body thing...
Could Circus be a Case 70?
If I recall correctly they were female in costume and male out of costume.
That seems to fit Tristan's description of his their own situation.

The description of Tristan and Byron switching makes my Circus was a C70 somewhat more likely I think.

The best solution to being so spread out might be to get some base to live in, like the Undersiders had.

And good thing Rain has a friend outside the group.
Or not, considering his situation and the changed circumstances...:smalleek:

:smallbiggrin:But it seems Lisa hasn't changed one bit...:smallbiggrin:
Insulting Vicky, taking over a town...

Unfortunately the context is not looking very good.
I'm pretty sure this will end very badly.
For both sides of the conflict...

Glory Girl taking the kids to war against Tattletale and company won't help things either.:smalleek:

[Forum Explorer]

Predictably Vicky is part of the new team now. Sorta.
These guys are so going to crash and burn...:smallbiggrin:

Also, could Tristan/Byron have put a hit on his twin?

And the whole two people one body thing...
Could Circus be a Case 70?
If I recall correctly they were female in costume and male out of costume.
That seems to fit Tristan's description of his their own situation.

The description of Tristan and Byron switching makes my Circus was a C70 somewhat more likely I think.

The best solution to being so spread out might be to get some base to live in, like the Undersiders had.

And good thing Rain has a friend outside the group.
Or not, considering his situation and the changed circumstances...:smalleek:

:smallbiggrin:But it seems Lisa hasn't changed one bit...:smallbiggrin:
Insulting Vicky, taking over a town...

Unfortunately the context is not looking very good.
I'm pretty sure this will end very badly.
For both sides of the conflict...

Glory Girl taking the kids to war against Tattletale and company won't help things either.:smalleek:

I don't think TT actually took over the town. My theory is that the current rulers of the town contacted TT and payed her to tell them what she knew about Glory Girl.

Now TT being TT, she also couldn't resist provoking Glory Girl. I don't think it's part of some crazy plan to get Glory Girl's team to try and fix that neighborhood, TT just likes messing with people.

[Rater202]

I don't think TT actually took over the town. My theory is that the current rulers of the town contacted TT and payed her to tell them what she knew about Glory Girl.

Now TT being TT, she also couldn't resist provoking Glory Girl. I don't think it's part of some crazy plan to get Glory Girl's team to try and fix that neighborhood, TT just likes messing with people.

I've got my own theory and two from the comments.

Mine is that she just remembers Glory Girl as Demolition "Cape Brutality" Dallon and lacks enough info to know that Vickey's grown past that and just doesn't want black and white mralizing, excessiveforce employing, collateral damage causing capes where she operates.

The comments are either "deliberately provoked Vickey to see how she reacts and gets data to figure out what she's like now" or "reverse psychology becuase Vickey might be useful in some plan she's got," with Speculation that Lisa has become a significantly less evil version of Coil.

I mean, last we heard she had her eyes set on taking down teacher and Miss Militia and Bitch had a way of contacting her so unless things went super south I don't think she's gonna be one of the bad guys,
but it was implied that she helped with the Fume Hood thing as a controlled pressure release attempt so she's not gonna be a full fledged goody goody, either.

[Kantaki]

I've got my own theory and two from the comments.

Mine is that she just remembers Glory Girl as Demolition "Cape Brutality" Dallon and lacks enough info to know that Vickey's grown past that and just doesn't want black and white mralizing, excessiveforce employing, collateral damage causing capes where she operates.

The comments are either "deliberately provoked Vickey to see how she reacts and gets data to figure out what she's like now" or "reverse psychology becuase Vickey might be useful in some plan she's got," with Speculation that Lisa has become a significantly less evil version of Coil.

I mean, last we heard she had her eyes set on taking down teacher and Miss Militia and Bitch had a way of contacting her so unless things went super south I don't think she's gonna be one of the bad guys,
but it was implied that she helped with the Fume Hood thing as a controlled pressure release attempt so she's not gonna be a full fledged goody goody, either.

Looking at the last chapters Tt definitely plans to use Vicky and the kids someway.

And judging by Crystalclears Interlude she's trying to (re)establish a greater powerbase.
Sierra is very likely to be in contact with her and I doubt she's the only candidate.

Speaking of the interlude, those theocracy guys mean trouble sooner or later. I'm betting my hat on it.
Although the guys in charge aren't very smart.
You don't threaten god slayers with war.
You strike hard and fast with all you got and pray that's enough.

Anyway, looking at Tt's talk with Victoria she gave her quite a few freebies.
Both by showing some of her hand- although she most likely has more cards up her sleeve and got new ones out of this -and by giving genuinely good advise.
Through subtext maybe, but I think Vicky and co caught it.

With in turn means Lisa has some new pawns on the board.

But between those three familiar faces I really want to see what the rest of the gang is up too.
Rachel's still out ranging I guess, going farther and farther from the spreading Moloch, but some of the others probably stuck around.
And there's no way I believe they're all doing their own thing.

[Forum Explorer]

Looking at the last chapters Tt definitely plans to use Vicky and the kids someway.

And judging by Crystalclears Interlude she's trying to (re)establish a greater powerbase.
Sierra is very likely to be in contact with her and I doubt she's the only candidate.

Speaking of the interlude, those theocracy guys mean trouble sooner or later. I'm betting my hat on it.
Although the guys in charge aren't very smart.
You don't threaten god slayers with war.
You strike hard and fast with all you got and pray that's enough.

Anyway, looking at Tt's talk with Victoria she gave her quite a few freebies.
Both by showing some of her hand- although she most likely has more cards up her sleeve and got new ones out of this -and by giving genuinely good advise.
Through subtext maybe, but I think Vicky and co caught it.

With in turn means Lisa has some new pawns on the board.

But between those three familiar faces I really want to see what the rest of the gang is up too.
Rachel's still out ranging I guess, going farther and farther from the spreading Moloch, but some of the others probably stuck around.
And there's no way I believe they're all doing their own thing.

God slayers is giving them a lot more credit then they deserve. Ignoring the interdimersional capes that didn't stick around afterwards, they still pretty much needed Taylor to do almost everything to beat Scion. The only other people who really effectively fought Scion of their own initiative was the Undersiders. Their bodies may have been used to fight Scion, but they'll never reach that level of coordination and cooperation again.

We know Imp is doing her thing with Heartbreaker's kids. And we know all of them decided to work together to kick down whatever alliance Teacher is trying to set up, though I don't know if they know Teacher is behind it.

[Kantaki]

God slayers is giving them a lot more credit then they deserve. Ignoring the interdimersional capes that didn't stick around afterwards, they still pretty much needed Taylor to do almost everything to beat Scion. The only other people who really effectively fought Scion of their own initiative was the Undersiders. Their bodies may have been used to fight Scion, but they'll never reach that level of coordination and cooperation again.

Little g.:smalltongue:
But yeah, without Taylor breaking her brain it wouldn't have ended as well.:smalleek:

Well, that was concerning.
Those guys are going to crash and burn so hard it isn't funny anymore.

The guys fresh out of the asylum shouldn't be the most functional and stable party-members.
The really scary part is that I have no idea who will snap first.

But the capture the flag game was cool.
Especially Ashley (if she insist on Damsel of Distress again I'll start calling her Dood. And suggest a penguin theme for her costume.:smallbiggrin:) moving across the battlefield Bakugo style.
Even if her power's too dangerous to use directly against people that opens a few interesting options.

Tristan and Byron are a nice combo too.
One stops you with Labyrinth style terrain changes and if you get through that the other can tag in for a instant tsunami.

[Kantaki]

Rain is officially terrifying.
What works on goats works on other Capes as well.
Or on innocent bystanders...:smalleek:

Also, sure Vicky, everything is Tt's fault.
Way to steal Taylor's infamy.:smallbiggrin:

[Forum Explorer]

Rain is officially terrifying.
What works on goats works on other Capes as well.
Or on innocent bystanders...:smalleek:

Also, sure Vicky, everything is Tt's fault.
Way to steal Taylor's infamy.:smallbiggrin:

Tattletale's consistently overblown reputation makes me laugh. It's at halfling with a pebble (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0745.html) levels now.

She interacted with that person at one point and then they died! Clearly it's her fault! :smallbiggrin:

[Kantaki]

Tattletale's consistently overblown reputation makes me laugh. It's at halfling with a pebble (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0745.html) levels now.

She interacted with that person at one point and then they died! Clearly it's her fault! :smallbiggrin:

Well, if you listen to Vicky Tt planned the whole mess that are the events of the original Worm.
Every event part of a devious plot to take over the multiverse.
I think she might be a little bit biased.

Admittedly, going by other masterminds it isn't unreasonable to assume Lisa was in charge, but that description sells the other Undersiders and several other mayor players seriously short.

You know, like the Nine. Or the Endbringers. Or Vicky herself.
So many people contributed to the things that she brings up, it's almost unfair Tattletale gets all the fame.:smallamused:

I wonder what she'll say when she hears all the nice things Glory Girl said about her.
Assuming she bugged Vicky of course. Which she totally would do, even if it's just to get a reaction.:smallbiggrin:

[Kantaki]

When the Bonesaw created clone of a villainess- who still identifies as a villain no less -is (one of) the least concerning member of your new hero team you know it's time to drop them yesterday.

Between the Byron/Tristan mess, with the alleged hits on teammates (and each other?) and the wonderful relationship to former allies, Rain apparently lying about mayor stuff- like seriously underselling his powers* -and Kenzie raising all sorts of alarms, not to mention Sveta and Chris (and Ashley of course)**, I'm honestly surprised they didn't crash and burn already.
And now Victoria of all people is mentoring them.

Speaking of Vicky, nice to see her dad's trying to mend things after messing up.
A shame her mother is still trying to rush things...

But I have to say, the Warden's headquarters are really cool. The knight imaginary is very appropriate. With the emergent Cape feudalism and all that.
Oh, and also because it's a ideal heroes should strive for.

And the first guys our protagonists are up against are time-manipulators?
Should be fun.
Between Clockblocker, Phir Se, Grey Boy and (to a degree) Coil those kind of powers always were fun.
And I mean, closed off timelines? Sweeping the area with time... stops? slowing? bending? And who know what offensive users they have?
Sounds like a real headache.:smallcool:
Really hope we'll get a Interlude for them.:smallamused:

*Really, if this is one the days his powers are waning I don't want to see them waxing.:smalleek:
**Who, while they have massive issues too, are a lesser concern compared to the other teammembers

[Kantaki]

Well, that was something.
Rain's past is seriously messed up.:smalleek:

I guess now we can at least guess why his Cluster wants him worse than dead.
Understandable if it is true.
Although, if they want im to suffer a fate worse than death- or at least before death -they should just leave him with his people.:smallamused:

Also, the Fallen revelation was perfect.
That dawning realization just what is wrong with Rain's "family" until the preacher outright said it.:smalleek:

The sad part is they still might be a step above the Merchants.
A very, very small step mind you, but still...

Still, I hope Rain and Erin get out of this fine-ish.
As much as that's possible.

And finally, this chapter provides a good reason why they just should've let Scion wreck the multiverse.
E.T.3. I mean, nothing against E.T., but it really doesn't need a Sequel, much less two.
Also, if a Fallen thinks it's bad that should tell you something.:smallbiggrin:

[Rater202]

And finally, this chapter provides a good reason why they just should've let Scion wreck the multiverse.
E.T.3. I mean, nothing against E.T., but it really doesn't need a Sequel, much less two.
Also, if a Fallen thinks it's bad that should tell you something.:smallbiggrin:

According to PRT Quest, OJ was the Terminator on Earth bet.

The rabbit hole goes deep, mia amiko.

[endoperez]

There's a new chapter! A bit late, maybe?

It has some... Implications. Not much new stuff, but a few more hints at some ominous future plot point.

And a reference to a very, very old memory, too! The bank she's talking about is a Worm reference. Took me a moment to place it.

[Kantaki]

Well, those chapters were impressive.

The Fallen got more horrifying, didn't think that would be possible.
But creepy hallucinations observing people?
That did it.:smalleek:

Unsurprising that Rain (O'Fire)- the only good thing about the Fallen are the rad names.:smallamused: -and his girlfriend are getting more desperate.

Also, it seems Skitter shouldn't have stopped at maggots in the eyes back then...:smalleek:

And it seems the universe decided that if Team Therapy won't escalate Hollow Point it will have to find someone else.
Interesting that LoveLost isn't mute.
Between her, Chris and the Advance Guard lady this will turn into a real shouting match.:smalleek:

[BRC]

So, there seems to be a deliberate contrast being set up here with regard to Hollow Point and Brockton Bay, as far as you have a community that is being effectively run by a group of "reasonable" Supervillains.

In Brockton Bay, the Undersiders were providing disaster relief, while Prancer and his crew seem to be running a generalized protection racket, but they're working from a similar place. A group of Villains take over territory, under the argument that, since they're not being too disruptive, the Heroes should just leave them alone.

We saw the events of Brockton Bay from Taylor's perspective, and got the constant refrain of "Why are you [the Heroes] Hassling us? We're not the big threats". And the Unreasonable Authority Figures saying "No, you're supervillains, we can't just let you take over a city", and pushing back against the idea of legitimizing the villains in this way.

[J-H]

Mama Mathers is freakily powerful if she can perceive anything her images see and hear. And they can communicate, too!
Less offensive power than Taylor, but much greater range as far as Thinker classifications go. Good multitasking as well.

The Fallen continue to be more and more messed up - in ways that are completely believable based on the behaviors of cults and barbarians around the world. I feel bad about Rain & Erin, but she's not willing to leave and staying would be worse for him... the "best case" would involve him surviving, becoming more of a murderous cultist, and then raising his family in that environment.

Ugh.

[Dragonus45]

Mama Mathers is freakily powerful if she can perceive anything her images see and hear. And they can communicate, too!
Less offensive power than Taylor, but much greater range as far as Thinker classifications go. Good multitasking as well.

The Fallen continue to be more and more messed up - in ways that are completely believable based on the behaviors of cults and barbarians around the world. I feel bad about Rain & Erin, but she's not willing to leave and staying would be worse for him... the "best case" would involve him surviving, becoming more of a murderous cultist, and then raising his family in that environment.

Ugh.

The specific set up here reminds me of various warlords around the world who make extensive use of kidnapped child soldiers. Very chilling.

[Kantaki]

This can only end in tears...
Well, more tears.

Rain's cluster continues to be a bunch of jerks- and he's definitely right that they didn't get that from him.
I mean I can understand wanting him dead, but when he offers himself and the actual core of the Fallen with the only request being not to hurt innocents and their reaction is „Yeah no. We'll will definitely hurt them. Just cause it makes you suffer.”?
They're no better than the guys actually responsible for the mall.

And the situation between Rain and Erin?
Well played Mama Mathers.
Between her and Elijah the poor never had a choice, even if her family weren't a factor.
Friggin Masters.

That Rain seeks out the help of March might even be the intended outcome.
Also, now that Foils clustermate is involved I expect more tragedy.

[Forum Explorer]

Is it weird that I think that Rain made the wrong decision? Though maybe that's because I'm not sure what his actual goals are.

I thought they were:

1. Survive
2. Save Erin
3. Kill Snag and Love Lost. Maybe Cradle as well.
4. Kill Mama Mathers (this might be part of step 2, but I'll give it it's own category)

But I feel like his actions here are counter productive at best. Pissing off the Fallen isn't going to save anyone, and will lower his chances of survival. Though running helps. But that will also make it much harder to kill Mama Mathers. And pretty much impossible to save Erin.


Also I don't think Rain's offer was sincere. Else he'd been more tempted by Cradle's demand to kill himself.


But anyways, who wants to take bets on who is going to die? My money is on Lovelost. I also think this is going to be a breaking point for the group. That we will get to see why Mrs Yamanda is so worried that the group is going to fail.

[BRC]

Is it weird that I think that Rain made the wrong decision? Though maybe that's because I'm not sure what his actual goals are.

I thought they were:

1. Survive
2. Save Erin
3. Kill Snag and Love Lost. Maybe Cradle as well.
4. Kill Mama Mathers (this might be part of step 2, but I'll give it it's own category)

But I feel like his actions here are counter productive at best. Pissing off the Fallen isn't going to save anyone, and will lower his chances of survival. Though running helps. But that will also make it much harder to kill Mama Mathers. And pretty much impossible to save Erin.


Also I don't think Rain's offer was sincere. Else he'd been more tempted by Cradle's demand to kill himself.


But anyways, who wants to take bets on who is going to die? My money is on Lovelost. I also think this is going to be a breaking point for the group. That we will get to see why Mrs Yamanda is so worried that the group is going to fail.

Eh, I'd say they're

1) Save Erin
2) Survive (His Self-Loathing is high enough that I wouldn't call this a priority)
3) Escape the Fallen
4)Take down the Fallen

Killing the other Cluster members is really only a priority because they're hellbent on killing him. I don't think he bears them any specific animosity, that or his self-loathing and guilt are enough that he doesn't blame them.


Now, let's look at his options.

Rationally speaking, If he Accepts Erin's offer, he's given up any chance of escape from the Fallen, either for him or for her. She refuses to abandon her family, who have thoroughly drunk the Kool Aide at this point. This "Live at the Edge of town" solution is a halfway compromise that will end with them both being sucked into the Fallen. From Rain's perspective, "Saving" Erin Means not just keeping her alive, but keeping her out of the Fallen. So, accepting means giving up on her getting away from the Fallen.

I don't want to say he'd rather see her dead than part of the Fallen, but either option is probably unthinkable for him. He loves her because she's NOT Fallen.


Emotionally Speaking? This was basically his worst nightmare. Erin having given up and accepted being one of the Fallen. Everything he dreamed about, given to him in the worst way possible.

[Forum Explorer]

Eh, I'd say they're

1) Save Erin
2) Survive (His Self-Loathing is high enough that I wouldn't call this a priority)
3) Escape the Fallen
4)Take down the Fallen

Killing the other Cluster members is really only a priority because they're hellbent on killing him. I don't think he bears them any specific animosity, that or his self-loathing and guilt are enough that he doesn't blame them.


Now, let's look at his options.

Rationally speaking, If he Accepts Erin's offer, he's given up any chance of escape from the Fallen, either for him or for her. She refuses to abandon her family, who have thoroughly drunk the Kool Aide at this point. This "Live at the Edge of town" solution is a halfway compromise that will end with them both being sucked into the Fallen. From Rain's perspective, "Saving" Erin Means not just keeping her alive, but keeping her out of the Fallen. So, accepting means giving up on her getting away from the Fallen.

I don't want to say he'd rather see her dead than part of the Fallen, but either option is probably unthinkable for him. He loves her because she's NOT Fallen.


Emotionally Speaking? This was basically his worst nightmare. Erin having given up and accepted being one of the Fallen. Everything he dreamed about, given to him in the worst way possible.

I think Escape the Fallen basically requires killing Mama Mathers.


If he truly accepts Erin's offer, yes, I agree with you. But I think the only way to Save Erin at this point is to kidnap her and her family and forcibly pull them out of the Fallen. As well as killing Mama Mathers. And having them all grouped up in a single house on the outskirts of town would make that much easier. It might also help keep Erin safe during the upcoming war. A 'soft' betrayal, where he gets the team to pull Erin and her family out during the fight to keep them safe. Then you just 'forget' to bring them back.


I do agree with you though, this has to be one of Rain's worst case scenarios, particularly after his 'day'. I certainly don't blame him for freaking out and leaving Erin behind. But I do think it was the wrong decision to make.

[J-H]

When did Flechette/Foil get retconned to being part of a cluster trigger?
I didn't think those were even a thing until after the Golden Man got blasted across all the dimensions.

[Rater202]

When did Flechette/Foil get retconned to being part of a cluster trigger?
I didn't think those were even a thing until after the Golden Man got blasted across all the dimensions.

Never.

You're thinking of Broken Triggers.

[Dragonus45]

When did Flechette/Foil get retconned to being part of a cluster trigger?
I didn't think those were even a thing until after the Golden Man got blasted across all the dimensions.

She was always part of a cluster, but it was the kind of thing that showed up more in various questions Wildbow answered then it did in the story proper.

[Present 2.0]

When I heard the News about Valefor being stronger now because of the maggots in his eyes, my first Thought was "Thanks, Taylor!".

Now I can't help, but imagine "Thanks, Taylor!" as a common swear in Gimel like "Thanks, Obama!" here(I hope I can reference that without it counting as political) and I find the idea hilarious.

5.6:

Interesting, that they don't want to get Valkyrie in there. "Valkyrie cannot engage THAT Group of Fallen." Since this is the Simurgh-Group, that propably means, they're afraid of the Possibility of Mind Controlled Valkyrie and that they don't think, that she is 100% safe from that with their Abilities.

[Kantaki]

Well, isn't this interlude just full of good news...

Cauldron is still around and they haven't changed one bit.:smalleek:
Well, the faction we see.
That another splinter's run by Teacher doesn't make things better.:smalleek:
Also, Number Man found a wife.:smalleek:
Who has good chances to take over the world City.:smalleek:
Not that the Undersider minion would be a much better option.
Nor is Mr. Nieves for that matter*.

Between the two Cauldrons I'm very curious what will cause trouble first, Teacher having an army and enough vials to build another or Citrine and Number Man trying to seize power.

No seriously, if you're locked in a cage with wolves you really shouldn't antagonize one of them. Much less after telling her you know what she is.

Also, can someone explain what Space Marines and Cauldron have to do with each other?
Because I've recently seen one of those guys with a oddly familiar symbol on his armor.:smallconfused:

[Rakaydos]

Also, can someone explain what Space Marines and Cauldron have to do with each other?
Because I've recently seen one of those guys with a oddly familiar symbol on his armor.:smallconfused:

"Ultramarines" have a stylized U on their armor, because they're "ultra-marines"
"Cauldron" case 53s has a stylized pot (or cauldron) tatooed on them.

The Greek Omega is commonly used for this stylization, because it's a fancy upside down U.

[Kantaki]

"Ultramarines" have a stylized U on their armor, because they're "ultra-marines"
"Cauldron" case 53s has a stylized pot (or cauldron) tatooed on them.

The Greek Omega is commonly used for this stylization, because it's a fancy upside down U.

Makes sense. Although the thought that Cauldron and the Imperium are connected somehow is kinda amusing.:smallamused:

Looking at the arc names it seems Ward is getting dark.:smallbiggrin:
Oh well, things definitely could go better.
A siege is easily one of the worst outcomes for Team not-Fallen.
Made worse by the Fallen having infiltrated both heroes and villains.

Since the time bending guys turned out to be Khonsu worshippers I guess there are cultists of the twins just waiting to reveal themselves.
Looking at the way Tohu and Bohu operated that doesn't bode well...:smalleek:
I just hope they didn't recruit Missy...:smalleek:

In other news Chris just got more suspicious after Rachel and Imp mentioned that video.
Also, Rachel is the best big sister.:smallamused:
Someone has to handle Aisha I guess...:smallamused:

[Tyndmyr]

She was always part of a cluster, but it was the kind of thing that showed up more in various questions Wildbow answered then it did in the story proper.



“Hey, Flechette,” Kid Win called across the room, “You’ve got a bunch of powers, right?”

She turned in her seat, “Sure.”

“Anyone else get powers at the same time you did?”

“Not that I know of.”

“Could someone nearby have gotten their powers, without you knowing? Way things played out? Did any capes show up around the same time as you?”

Flechette frowned, “Yeah. A rather persistent villain.”

Don't think it's a spoiler, more of intentional, waaaay earlier foreshadowing.

[Forum Explorer]

So speculation time.

Why do you think Tattletale told Victoria where Rain was? Is Rain already too far gone, or is she washing her hands of Cradle? Or is it idle sentiment from when Sveta worked with Taylor?

I kinda think she's playing the long game and trying to win over Victoria's group, even if she won't ever win over Victoria herself.

[Kantaki]

Before reading today's chapter* I would have said Tt helped because she wanted Rain alive because she needs Team Therapy** for her long term plans, but couldn't not help the Cluster because she needs them too and/or they could just find another Thinker who wouldn't try to keep Rain alive which could mean loosing the therapy group as a asset.

*Afterwards...I would say pretty much the same thing.:smalltongue:
**I don't think loosing him would have been good for the team's cohesion or their willingness to work with Lisa.


Well, that was ominous.
Between Tt's "war starting in a week" comment and the Crowleys' "hell of a show" I'm guessing the Fallen will attack some Earth Cheit citizens.:smalleek:

And looking at Tattletale... trying to fix everything herself, twisting arms to get people to cooperate... she reminds me of someone.:smallamused:

Her endgame for our favorite Cluster is interesting.
I wonder who messed with it. Teacher? Number Man?

Or maybe Cradle just took a long look at the Empress and, like Foil, decided messing with this stuff is a bad idea.
(Which, considering the thing in the fifth section of their dreamspace, is likely true.)

Also, I'm shipping Looksee and Chicken Little now.:smallbiggrin:

Speaking of Aiden, Unkindness would've been a great name.:smalltongue:

[Forum Explorer]

I think what threw off Tattletale's calculations is Snag dying. She didn't know they'd get a vision at that time, and I think that's what pushed Cradle to reject Tattletale's offer.

[Kantaki]

I think what threw off Tattletale's calculations is Snag dying. She didn't know they'd get a vision at that time, and I think that's what pushed Cradle to reject Tattletale's offer.

Sounds plausible, considering how her power works.

Okay, those Boston capes really made me want to hit kill them.
Alone the names*. And the costumes.
Seriously, the description was enough to make me go ".... this. I'm going villain.":smallmad:

And the Fallen blew up the portals. That's... most likely not good.
Makes it easier for enemies to get through.
Also, people might've been hurt. Important people. Like Yamada. Or some capes. Or- possibly worst of all citizens of other Earths.
I mean, we already had those theocracy guys threaten war should one of their touriss stub their toe while visiting the City.

So yeah, in classic Worm style things are about to hit rock bottom just for some clowns to engage the drill.:smalleek:

*Sure, as we learned in Worm most of the good ones are taken, but that's no excuse for those abominations.

[Rynjin]

Eclipse was a real breath of fresh air, and it really underlines the fact that Ward's biggest problem is Victoria being about as interesting as a bowl of stale Wheaties, sans milk.

[Dragonus45]

Eclipse was a real breath of fresh air, and it really underlines the fact that Ward's biggest problem is Victoria being about as interesting as a bowl of stale Wheaties, sans milk.

I still don’t get why you hate Victoria so much. She has a ton going on and as been a great first person narrator so far.

[Rynjin]

I still don’t get why you hate Victoria so much. She has a ton going on and as been a great first person narrator so far.

She has NOTHING going on. We're 7 arcs in and no progress as far as her character has been made. Negative progress, if anything; she's backslid toward Worm Victoria in a couple of ways, even.

She has no motivation, isn't working toward anything, her lookout toward her only pseudo-goal is pessimistic and more focused on damage control than anything, and in general she exists as a vehicle to give the plot an excuse to focus on the primary characters (everyone else in Team Caramel Friendship) without giving away the game by being inside their heads.

She sits contrary to every other Wildbow protagonist, and sometimes change isn't good.

[Tyndmyr]

I have nothing against Victoria, but honestly, I'm more fascinated in most other elements of the team. I'd probably prioritize my curiosity/interest in the following order:

Damsel
Rain
Kenzie
Sveta
Victoria
Chris
Tristan/Bryce

The PoV of the first two are fascinating and complex, Kenzie's fulla potential for whenever the wheels come off, Sveta is a fun char without nearly enough spotlight time considering her rather impressive murderspree numbers. The two below Victoria are a little one note. I'm a little curious as to what else is hinted to be going on with Chris, but as a character, he's pretty predictable. Tristan/Bryce basically are second tier characters with only a single real problem to work out. It's a big one, but if it goes away, they basically cease to be interesting altogether.