I want a character who just won't die and kicks ass in combat. What would you pick?

[DeathOverride]

Hey everyone! My DM loves to kill us using combat, so I want to make a character that is selfish (won't save others), kills really well, and just won't die. I need to make my new character by Thursday (I just got murdered by a CR 6 at level 2). I have to go to work now but I'll update this thread as I think of more ideas, and I'll check in on what other people have to say.

Thanks for all your help!

House rules:
* Gritty rests - only short rests while travelling, long rest when back in towns. But we only fight once or twice at most between short rests. This is a huge buff to warlock and other 'per short rest' classes, and a nerf to the long-rest classes.
* Anything from the PHB. Otherwise we can ask for approval.
* DM is a killer. We got TPKd at level 2 by a CR6 creature. I want to prevent this from happening again as best I can.

So far these are my ideas.

Typical crossbow-expert/sharpshooter fighter.
- Sweet damage. Ranged. Battlemaster maneuvers - short rest!! No magic, and not really any out of battle utility other than high dex skills...
* Potential dips:

1 level in hexblade warlock (if approved) to get curse and hex, and maybe a 2nd level to get invocations. Shield as a reaction from hexblade is kinda nice, too.
1 level in barbarian to get unarmored defense (20 AC once you max dex and con!! Can use rage + a shield for 22 AC and resistance when running away, or rage to break a grapple!)

* Races:

variant human to be strong in early levels (crossbow expert at 1, sharpshooter at 4)
elf to have dark-vision and maybe elven accuracy (if approved) later. Also makes it easier to get dex saving throw by getting dex resilience feat at level 6 or so.


Typical Great Weapon fighter.
I haven't thought this one through too much, especially if combining it with a hexblade dip or something, but it sounds like it could be sweet.

Warlock
Basically the most powerful spellcaster bar-none due to the gritty rest system. Might be able to multiclass for more cheese?

[Provo]

Barbarian/rogue with a sword and shield is good. You have high health and take 1/4th damage from most attacks. Take Resiliant Wisdom for proficiency in str, con, and wis saves plus advantage in Dex saves from Barbarian.

My DM had to ignore me or design entire encounters around me.

On top of that, you can dish out hefty damage, and you can wrestle just about anybody.

The downside is it takes some time to build up. You will never be weak (or even below average), but you won't be unkillable at level 2.

Edit: the other downside is your limited rages with the gritty rest system. It still works very well, but you may not have resistance in every battle. Your rogue side isn't hindered by the gritty system though.

[Galadhrim]

Half-Orc Oath of the Ancients Paladin. Racial lets you hit harder on crits and ignore death once per long rest. Great AC at an early level. Healing to keep yourself alive. good consistent damage. Misty step at level 5 if you find yourself in too much danger. Level 7 aura to half spell damage. Improved saves with your aura. Overall great survivability in a fun package.

[Daphne]

- My DM loves to kill us using combat, so I want to make a character that is selfish (won't save others), kills really well, and just won't die.
- Gritty rests - only short rests while travelling
- Anything from the PHB


I would play a sword & board Battle Master, high AC and HP, maneuvers refresh on short rests, Evasive Footwork can increase AC, Parry can reduce damage taken. For race I'd pick Half-Orc for +2 strength, +1 Con (more HP) and Relentless Endurance (you literally don't die).

[Easy_Lee]

Half-orc GWM bearbarian. Sometimes the simplest answer is the right one.

[Joe dirt]

With a GM like that I would focus on a character that fight from distance and can run away.... I would go rogue 2 for the bonus dash action and maybe wood elf to max the distance and pick up longbow

[Finieous]

Typical crossbow-expert/sharpshooter fighter.


Yep. Deal the pain at range and be in good position to retreat. Use stealth, maneuver, terrain, position and ambush to your advantage. Avoid fights against CR6 creatures at 2nd level unless you've stacked the odds in your favor.

Think about dipping rogue (say, character level 7 and 8) for Expertise and Cunning Action. Consider adding three more rogue levels for Uncanny Dodge once you've gotten your second Extra Attack.

You don't want to play a barbarian with limited long rests.

[DeathOverride]

With a GM like that I would focus on a character that fight from distance and can run away.... I would go rogue 2 for the bonus dash action and maybe wood elf to max the distance and pick up longbow

Yep, that's part of why my guy will be selfish. My previous character was a lawful good paladin and he got destroyed trying to save people. One of the other players could have also gotten away but was similarly a neutral good and tried to save one of the unconscious players. Next time we'll just run away and cut our losses, and lose 2 or 3 people instead of 5 haha.

I almost wouldn't want to play with this DM, but its actually a pretty fun campaign other than the death... and he insists on the super-deadly stuff, so whatever.

[QuintonBeck]

What CR 6 creature killed you? What method does it seem like your DM uses for targeting? Does he focus fire melee PCs down and then turn on the back row? If so a bunch of HP may help but if you're charging in at the front you may still be SOL. If they focus on the frontline I think trying to slide into the backrow as a Rogue, Warlock, or Sorcerer of some sort may be your best bet. Does he spread the damage around so just having more HP/damage negation will help? If so I think Barbarian or Paladin are great suggestions.

[DeathOverride]

What CR 6 creature killed you? What method does it seem like your DM uses for targeting? Does he focus fire melee PCs down and then turn on the back row? If so a bunch of HP may help but if you're charging in at the front you may still be SOL. If they focus on the frontline I think trying to slide into the backrow as a Rogue, Warlock, or Sorcerer of some sort may be your best bet. Does he spread the damage around so just having more HP/damage negation will help? If so I think Barbarian or Paladin are great suggestions.

Most enemies do seem to hit whoever is in front first.

In this case it was a wyvern, so we couldn't have run away as a group if we wanted to due to its flying speed. Plus it took someone down in the first round due to our low HP at level 1 and 2.

Maybe I should do rogue 2 (cunning action) and mobile feat. Then if anything goes down I just run away at 120 feet of movement per turn. A wyvern could outpace me, sure, but most other things can't. Even most flying creatures have 60 flying speed, and if they dash that is only 120. So they'd keep pace with me.

[Finieous]

Maybe I should do rogue 2 (cunning action) and mobile feat. Then if anything goes down I just run away at 120 feet of movement per turn. A wyvern could outpace me, sure, but most other things can't. Even most flying creatures have 60 flying speed, and if they dash that is only 120. So they'd keep pace with me.

90 feet per round (30 move, 30 Dash as an action, 30 Dash as a bonus action). What you really needed was somewhere to hide. Were you on a featureless plain? That's pretty harsh...

FWIW, I like starting with fighter and getting your two feats and Extra Attack as quickly as possible.

[Rabbitfox]

Maybe I should do rogue 2 (cunning action) and mobile feat. Then if anything goes down I just run away at 120 feet of movement per turn. A wyvern could outpace me, sure, but most other things can't. Even most flying creatures have 60 flying speed, and if they dash that is only 120. So they'd keep pace with me.

I play a Rogue 3/Barbarian 2 with Mobility Feat and you get crazy combat mobility. It has been working out pretty well for me. My build:

Start with Variant Human Rogue with Mobility Feat. (Max out Dex/high Con) Do Rogue for first 2 Lvls, get Cunning Action.
Then go 2 Lvl Barbarian to get Reckless Attack/Unarmored Defense & Shield Proficiency.
Get another Lvl to Rogue and pick Arcane Trickster with Booming Blade & Longstride.

Base Speed with Mobility is 40ft, if you can cast Longstride before Battle it is 50ft. You can move up to 80ft/100ft using cunning action per round, attack somebody and move back out without provoking opportunity attacks (as long as you attack an isolated target). For your melee attack you can use your sneak attack with booming blade using reckless attack with a Rapier for at least 2d8+2d6. If your target tries to chase you then they take an extra 2d8 damage from booming blade.

[damascoplay]

There's nothing better than a level 1 variant human, barbarian/bear totem to save your a** when you most need. Go ahead and pick the Tough feat for more hit points as you level up.

[KorvinStarmast]

Barbarian/rogue with a sword and shield is good. You have high health and take 1/4th damage from most attacks. As Read the rulebook on the barbarian, it's "take 1/2 damage from most attacks when raging." Do you have some additional features/rules/class abilities that my book doesn't have? :smallconfused:

[Rabbitfox]

As Read the rulebook on the barbarian, it's "take 1/2 damage from most attacks when raging." Do you have some additional features/rules/class abilities that my book doesn't have? :smallconfused:

He is assuming you are raging and have uncanny dodge (Lvl 5 Rogue ability). Rage halves the damage and uncanny dodge lets you halve the damage from an attack as a reaction.

[KorvinStarmast]

He is assuming you are raging and have uncanny dodge (Lvl 5 Rogue ability). Rage halves the damage and uncanny dodge lets you halve the damage from an attack as a reaction. Aha, I had not grokked the combo. Thank you. :smallwink:

[GlenSmash!]

Half-orc GWM bearbarian. Sometimes the simplest answer is the right one.

Yup. Shrugging of damage as a Barbearian just feels so good.

To the OP. Moon Druid won't die, and kicks pretty great butt starting at level 2. It may lose some steam at higher levels, but never stops being solid.

[The Shadowdove]

I've done a lot of dming this year because of AL & home games, at one time 5 locations a week, usually 2-3 a week on average.

I'd say barbarian, cleric, and paladin are some of the most difficult classes to kill. Eldritch knight is pretty brutal too.

I haven't seen one yet, but long death monks are supposed to be annoying battlefield controlling tanks who refuse to die.

I've also heard stories about higher level mobile feat monks who run/ teleport around and constantly hit/outrun monsters using ranged/melee combat. Effectively making gimmickless fights one sided via guerilla tactics. Someone told me a horror story about one such monk with boots if flying AND cloak of displacement.

[Corpus]

I haven't seen one yet, but long death monks are supposed to be annoying battlefield controlling tanks who refuse to die.

I've also heard stories about higher level mobile feat monks who run/ teleport around and constantly hit/outrun monsters using ranged/melee combat.


Something a little different then above.
A Wood Elf Shadow Hand Monk.
Use the long bow, your speed , stealth, and teleportation to stay away. At higher levels you have the option to stun something you can't run from.

[Meta]

If you're going to go the barbarian route (and rogue/barb would be even tankier I'd say) then make sure to grab resilient (wis) and don't dump the stat. Uncanny Dodge and Bear rages don't mean a lot if you can't save against Hold Person.

I'd say ancients paladin has the best all around survivability. Solid saving throws to start, becoming the best at level 6 onward, (I guess maybe the artificer at level 20 beats it?) solid burst healing, decent mobility, some support spells, and some situational stuff like immunity to disease which will come up eventually. It won't match the rogue/barb at enduring hundreds of arrows, but it also won't ever die to mummy rot. And probably save against hold person.

[Kane0]

Goliath Fighter with Rogue dip. All short rest resources, bonus actions / action surge, extra ASIs for things like Lucky, Resilient and Tough, works equally well at range and in melee.

Barbarians will run out of rages, paladins and rangers will run out of spells. You will have extra actions, HP (healing and damage reduction) and maneuvers that all come back on a short rest.

Another option is monk, but they can be squishy. Maybe a lizardfolk monk?

[Contrast]

Most enemies do seem to hit whoever is in front first.

In this case it was a wyvern, so we couldn't have run away as a group if we wanted to due to its flying speed. Plus it took someone down in the first round due to our low HP at level 1 and 2.

Maybe I should do rogue 2 (cunning action) and mobile feat. Then if anything goes down I just run away at 120 feet of movement per turn. A wyvern could outpace me, sure, but most other things can't. Even most flying creatures have 60 flying speed, and if they dash that is only 120. So they'd keep pace with me.

I'd strongly consider just straight rogue. I went from level 2 to level 5 without being hit just by never being the most convenient target for our enemies. This wasn't quite so convenient for the rest of the party of course...

A warlock (short rests!) or dragon sorc (AC and HP!) combined with a decent Cha and Inspiring Leader might smooth the first few levels somewhat as you'd basically be guaranteed the temporary HP every combat with your set up.

Edit - it occurs to me, when you said awesome in combat I took that to mean 'useful in a fight' more generically than 'good with a weapon'. As a side note I played with a battlemaster in a game with a lot of short rests and can confirm it was good :smallwink:

[8wGremlin]

vHuman, Revised ranger (deep stalker) - only uses a hand crossbow, (sharpshooter, crossbow mastery)
possibly 2+ levels of fighter (EK) for shield spell when you need it, action surge and second wind.
Does insane amounts of damage with a crossbow... and SO many attacks in the first round - Alpha strike for the win.

[8wGremlin]

But if you have access to XgtE - go hexblade.

possibly Coffeelock but Hexblade/Sorcerer (divine soul) and don't sleep and convert all the spell points over...

[mer.c]

A few thoughts I haven’t seen brought up:

Moon Druids have gobs of HP and wild shape is keyed to short rests. Problem is their damage output is poor once they get past their power spikes, and compensated for by spells which are long-rest-based. So if your DM allows, you could do a Monk/Druid MC. Whether you can use your martial arts in wild shape will depend on your DM, though, so be sure to ask.

Warlock/Paladin MC. Short-rest spells, heavy armor, good hit dice, Paladin defensive features, and Eldritch Blast. Oath of Ancients and Tomelock are my preferred choices, but it’s hard to go wrong. Pact of the Blade May offer some good perks if allowed (I haven’t kept up on UA classes).

Thrower. If you can swing the weapon-draw requirement (DM discretion required), you can get the safety of ranged attacks without the penalty of melee awkwardness, twice per round. Especially good on Rogues for two chances at ranged sneak attacks per round. Tons of flexibility and mobility. Ammo can be a big limiter, depending on the expected prevalence of magical items and how your DM handles collecting thrown ammo (i.e. can you pick up a thrown weapon you missed with).

Just go Warrior. Already mentioned of course, but honestly it’s so good for what you’re looking for. EK is unfortunately tied to long rests, but most everything else is a short-rest resource. And attacking 4 times in one turn at level 5 is serious business. A little Rogue MC may be a good compliment.

[Arkhios]

Coffeelock

Wtf is coffeelock?

[Easy_Lee]

Wtf is coffeelock?

"The Drow Coffee Lock (Warlock 1/Sorcerer 2) starts at 3rd level - feed your warlock spells into spell slots every short rest, and never sleep (only meditate) and every long rest = 4 short rests."

The idea is to never long rest - thus never resetting your sorcery point total - and instead feed short rest spell slots from warlock into your spell point total. If your DM is a real goofball and allows it, do it in your downtime for theoretically infinite sorcery points on a very tired (but technically rules-legal, ish) character.

[Arkhios]

"The Drow Coffee Lock (Warlock 1/Sorcerer 2) starts at 3rd level - feed your warlock spells into spell slots every short rest, and never sleep (only meditate) and every long rest = 4 short rests."

The idea is to never long rest - thus never resetting your sorcery point total - and instead feed short rest spell slots from warlock into your spell point total. If your DM is a real goofball and allows it, do it in your downtime for theoretically infinite sorcery points on a very tired (but technically rules-legal, ish) character.

Oh, lord! (not that I'd be a believer) :smallbiggrin:

[staylost]

The other answers here are great, but I'd go with a Champion or Warlock or Shadow Monk. You are in a short rest situation and these classes don't mind a bit. Use a bow as the Champion, Eldritch as the Warlock, or have the easiest teleport escape in the game with Shadow Monk.

[snickersnax]

Yep, that's part of why my guy will be selfish. My previous character was a lawful good paladin and he got destroyed trying to save people. One of the other players could have also gotten away but was similarly a neutral good and tried to save one of the unconscious players. Next time we'll just run away and cut our losses, and lose 2 or 3 people instead of 5 haha.

I almost wouldn't want to play with this DM, but its actually a pretty fun campaign other than the death... and he insists on the super-deadly stuff, so whatever.

Just a thought...Everyone for themselves might not be the best strategy here. The DM has set himself up as DM vs Party. Making it through the first few levels will probably be the most difficult and plotting against the DM with a team effort may work better.

This means paying attention to party construction and synergy. This may mean some self-imposed party rules... no movement less than 30, faster is better. No disadvantage on stealth checks (meaning no loud armors). Absolute minimum AC of 15, more is better.

What helps a party survive low levels are feats like Healer and Inspired Leader. Which both conveniently recharge on a short or long rest. I would say they are essential in a party wanting to survive in a harsh campaign like this. That means someone has to take them, even though feats like mobility and lucky and magic initiate and alert and observant may be better individual choices.

Anyway I would suggest having player-only strategy meetings to discuss group character creation and combat tactics,

[QuintonBeck]

Most enemies do seem to hit whoever is in front first.

In this case it was a wyvern, so we couldn't have run away as a group if we wanted to due to its flying speed. Plus it took someone down in the first round due to our low HP at level 1 and 2.

Maybe I should do rogue 2 (cunning action) and mobile feat. Then if anything goes down I just run away at 120 feet of movement per turn. A wyvern could outpace me, sure, but most other things can't. Even most flying creatures have 60 flying speed, and if they dash that is only 120. So they'd keep pace with me.

So it sounds like your DM is just playing a tough deadly campaign but not an unreasonably tough one where even low Int monsters know to go after the casters. That's good.


Just a thought...Everyone for themselves might not be the best strategy here. The DM has set himself up as DM vs Party. Making it through the first few levels will probably be the most difficult and plotting against the DM with a team effort may work better.

This means paying attention to party construction and synergy. This may mean some self-imposed party rules... no movement less than 30, faster is better. No disadvantage on stealth checks (meaning no loud armors). Absolute minimum AC of 15, more is better.

What helps a party survive low levels are feats like Healer and Inspired Leader. Which both conveniently recharge on a short or long rest. I would say they are essential in a party wanting to survive in a harsh campaign like this. That means someone has to take them, even though feats like mobility and lucky and magic initiate and alert and observant may be better individual choices.

Anyway I would suggest having player-only strategy meetings to discuss group character creation and combat tactics,

I agree very strongly with this. You said it was a TPK so I assume all the returning players are rolling up new PCs. I would highly advise talking to these fellow players and finding out what they want to do and if they're open to coordinating. You can build a really cool powerful character who's good at X but this is D&D you need to be good at X, Y, and Z and that's why you have a party.

A caster who focuses on control or buffing (or one of each) via a Bard/Cleric/Sorcerer/Druid, a pure melee type like a Fighter/Barb/Pally, and a striker/utility type in the form of a Rogue/Monk/Bard makes up sort of classic party balance and while not necessary in 5E I've found groups with a more well rounded party composition tend to do better, especially when they work to compliment each other's abilities and set one another up for combos. Depending on how big your party is the core three can be augmented with a ranged attacker via a Warlock/Ranger/Sorcerer and additional permutations of the core three archetypes never hurt. Going full solo mode is just going to result in more death and while it might avoid a TPK because the one slippery guy survived a cohesive fighting force is more likely to survive all together.

[ImproperJustice]

Or create a pacifist tranquility Monk.
Spam Sanctuary and only use dodges in every encounter.

Openly refuse to engage in combat of any kind. When killed, create the exact same character.
Devote all your time and energy to disrupting the GM narrative.

It’s simple strategy. You cannot outfight him. He will just throw mightier and mightier challenges at you. He delights in the kill.

You must strike at him where you can by denying him the thrill of one sided combat. Find your victory in his frustration.

[sithlordnergal]

I'm sure this has already been suggested, but Bear Totem Barbarian / Moon Druid. Now you get Wild Shapes and Rage, which can be mixed together. And guess what, Wild Shape is on a Short Rest timer, and you get 2 per short rest. And as you said, you usually only have 1-2 encounters every short rest. Now you can have the extra HP, damage reduction, and higher AC.

[Vaz]

Goliath Shadow Sorc 1/Barbarian

Bear Totem makes you resilient to damage, while Ancestral Guardian punishes enemies for attacking those other than you, and punishes them for attacking you.

Shadow Sorc gives you the ability to stay alive on death 2 day in conjunction with Goliath, and gives you Shield for when you don't want to rage or don't have Rage up.

[the_brazenburn]

You don't want to die?

Hello, somebody called the Berserker?

[Finieous]

Just as a reminder, have people actually read the OP?


Long rests only in a town
A couple fights per short rest



Barbarian is not a good choice.

[Daphne]

Just as a reminder, have people actually read the OP?


Long rests only in a town
A couple fights per short rest



Barbarian is not a good choice.

This, Barbarians would not be a great choice, the best options, in my opinion, are either Battle Master or Warlock.

And let's not forget this too:


* Anything from the PHB. Otherwise we can ask for approval.


So it would be wise to stick to the PHB when giving suggestions. If OP picks Warlock though, I would suggest asking the DM if Hexblade or the race Tortle (from the Tortle Package) are allowed.

[Jamesps]

It's not the most interesting, but a plain old sword and board eldritch knight has the most diverse set of defenses early on. Put all your stat points in the three major save stats. You'll have protection from evil at 3rd level which situationally is exceptionally defensive. Mage armor will ensure that you're sitting at 20 AC regardless of party wealth by 6th level. By 7th level you'll have access to blur or mirror image depending on preference, and at 9th you get to start rerolling saves. Add that to second wind and you'll have a good diversity of defenses that should carry you through any situation.

In theory you can also eventually pick up warcaster to enable you to cast shield, hiking your AC up to 24 when you really need it as well as helping you to maintain your defensive buff and make devastating attacks of opportunity with sonic blade. I'd do this by 8th level if not sooner, delaying dex to ensure your defensive buffs.

[VelociRapture12]

Or create a pacifist tranquility Monk.
Spam Sanctuary and only use dodges in every encounter.

Openly refuse to engage in combat of any kind. When killed, create the exact same character.
Devote all your time and energy to disrupting the GM narrative.

It’s simple strategy. You cannot outfight him. He will just throw mightier and mightier challenges at you. He delights in the kill.

You must strike at him where you can by denying him the thrill of one sided combat. Find your victory in his frustration.

This. This right here is why I play in the first place.

[Throne12]

So if you stay back and out or range of danger then your not going to get hurt or killed. So here's a build I'm wanting to play.

Race: Eladrin
Class: horizon walker ranger
Feat: sharpshooter

The Eladrin gives a short rest oh shet teleport (misty step)
On the horizon walker get misty step and haste on there Extended spell this in the Xander's guide. So just sit back and shoot your bow.

[SirGraystone]

The lacks of long rest is crippling and harsh for many classes.

My choice would be hill dwarf cleric of the forge domain, forge give you heavy armor and a +1 AC from blessing of the forge. Hill dwarf give constitution bonus for more hp, and let you use warhammer and battleaxe with your shield. Get bless to buffs the group and healing spell. Since you have few long rest, only use healing spell if someone is down and you really need him up to finish the fight.

[8wGremlin]

Are you allowed Mystic?


If you are take soul blade.

This will give you 2pp every time you kill an opponent with your soul blade at 6th level.
you can use this to kill enemies and charge up your PP to use to heal, and res.
Use your PP sparingly


You have two 1d8 blade light finesse blades that do Psychic damage.
you can wear medium armour, and you can use twf.


Take psychic restoration so you can use these to heal.


Pick 2 more disciplines
I like master of light and shadow. So I can see in darkness and summon shadows @3rd level

Take the talents - Mind thrust, so you have a ranged attack, and Blind Spot, to help with sneaking.

Be vHuman for the feat:
Ritual Caster (wizard) and get find familiar, and Leomund's tiny hut, which you can cast whenever you have 10mins spare
or perhaps Magic Initiate (wizard) for Booming Blade, prestidigitation, find familiar or shield.

[Sception]

Level 1 high cha paladin, possibly going into sorcerer or warlock after level 6 or 7, dipping warlock earlier for hexblade if allowed. Variant human with the feat that lets you hand out temporary hit points to the entire party every time you rest. Make the whole party more survivable.

[sithlordnergal]

Hmmm, coming back to this. Seeing as the long rests only happen in town, you really should go Moon Druid. Their Wild Shape restore on a Short Rest, so you will get them back after every short rest, and they have the casting abilities of a normal druid. And Druids are pretty darn good casters.

[LordofGoats]

A Yuan-ti Pureblood bear barbarian would be a tanking god.