When to Multiclass Fighter/Rogue

[youtellatale]

Need some advice/guidance here guys...

I've got a level 7 fighter (battle master) that I'm currently playing and I was wondering about people's thoughts here for timing on multiclassing. I am normally somewhat of an optimizer, but with this build I did not go that route and went with something less optimal (still very effective) that I liked for backstory reasons. I am curious about when I should take a few levels of rogue. Before anyone asks, yes I am committed to multiclassing as it makes a lot of sense for the story and for character development.

Build info:
Human Variant Fighter 7 (Battle Master)
Dueling Fighting Style (rapier + shield)
HV Lvl 1 Feat - Shield Master (now kinda wish I had chosen otherwise but no biggie, the Dex save help has been wonderful though)
STR 8 WIS 14
DEX 20 INT 10
CON 16 CHA 8

Party makeup:
Dwarven Paladin (Ancients), Human Cleric (War), Human Warlock (Fey), Human Bard (Lore)

So my question is this: should I go ahead and take a level or 3 of rogue (we're about to level up)? Should I wait until after fighter 8 so I get the ASI/feat sooner? If I take the 8th level of fighter should I get an ASI or a feat (and which feat?)? Right now my plan is to go Rogue 1, 2, 3 (Assassin?); Fighter 8; Rogue 4, 5 (for 3d6 SA + Uncanny Dodge) but I'm open to opinions. I normally go near the top of the round and try to get in the way so the ranged guys can attack and do more damage. I grant attacks to our Paladin and our Cleric who has GWM.

Thanks in advance.

[pdegan2814]

Need some advice/guidance here guys...

I've got a level 7 fighter (battle master) that I'm currently playing and I was wondering about people's thoughts here for timing on multiclassing. I am normally somewhat of an optimizer, but with this build I did not go that route and went with something less optimal (still very effective) that I liked for backstory reasons. I am curious about when I should take a few levels of rogue. Before anyone asks, yes I am committed to multiclassing as it makes a lot of sense for the story and for character development.

Build info:
Human Variant Fighter 7 (Battle Master)
Dueling Fighting Style (rapier + shield)
HV Lvl 1 Feat - Shield Master (now kinda wish I had chosen otherwise but no biggie, the Dex save help has been wonderful though)
STR 8 WIS 14
DEX 20 INT 10
CON 16 CHA 8

Party makeup:
Dwarven Paladin (Ancients), Human Cleric (War), Human Warlock (Fey), Human Bard (Lore)

So my question is this: should I go ahead and take a level or 3 of rogue (we're about to level up)? Should I wait until after fighter 8 so I get the ASI/feat sooner? If I take the 8th level of fighter should I get an ASI or a feat (and which feat?)? Right now my plan is to go Rogue 1, 2, 3 (Assassin?); Fighter 8; Rogue 4, 5 (for 3d6 SA + Uncanny Dodge) but I'm open to opinions. I normally go near the top of the round and try to get in the way so the ranged guys can attack and do more damage. I grant attacks to our Paladin and our Cleric who has GWM.

Thanks in advance.

With a Dex of 20 and a Con of 16, I'd probably go ahead and start dipping into your Rogue levels now. You don't need the ASI, and I'm not sure there's a feat that's a no-doubter for you at this point. The only feat I could think of right away would be Resilient(Wis) IF your Dungeon Master is throwing a lot of Wis saves at you, but your Paladin has their 10' aura of saving-throw boosting, so stay close to the Dwarf for now :) Do you know which Rogue sub-class you plan to take if you get up to Rogue 3? With a Cha of 8 I'm guessing something other than Swashbuckler? :)

[PeteNutButter]

I’d go rogue now. You’ve maxed your attack stat so you’re set. Consider going back to fighter after 1-5 levels of rogue to grab sentinel, which pairs excellently with your SA and riposte.

I like arcane trickster, if only for things like mage armor. The buffs and utility just offer more.

[Knaight]

You're a bit past an ideal break point, which suggests waiting for the second one. That would be at level 12 - 11 levels of Fighter gets you the second Extra Attack, and en route you also get a few other perks.

[guachi]

Well, if you were taking Shield Master at level one you probably should have gone Strength instead of Dexterity.

Be that as it may, you might as well start going Rogue now.

[LordNibbler]

Having Dex 20 and Con 16 is very good for a Fighter at your level. You don't need to worry about ability scores for now.
I'd start with one level of Rogue to get Expertise (athletics) to take full advantage of your Shield Master feat then take Fighter 8 for Resilient (Wisdom). After that choose between getting to Rogue 5 or Fighter 11 depending on what you want your character to be like.

[MrFahrenheit]

As emperor palpatine would say...

Do it. Do it now!

Also, when you hit rogue 3, go THIEF. As a battlemaster/thief, here’s what you can do IN ONE ROUND against any opponent that relies on equipment (I love bringing this up when I can):

Partial move: approach enemy.
Bonus action: swipe enemy’s holstered backup weapon thanks to Fast Hands ability.
Action: Disarming attack both hits opponent and makes them drop their equipped primary weapon
Free action: interact with object to kick said fallen primary weapon away.
Partial move: start heading to next bad guy.

Two issues with this build that I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention:

1. You’ve already used your bonus action this turn, so you can’t try and hide from the guy you’ve just neutered. But that’s ok! If the baddie even hits you, it’s for 1+STR. Meh.

2. Against a monster that doesn’t rely on equipment, this strategy is obviously negated. However, so is an assassin’s when they don’t get that surprise round against an opponent.

[MrFahrenheit]

You're a bit past an ideal break point, which suggests waiting for the second one. That would be at level 12 - 11 levels of Fighter gets you the second Extra Attack, and en route you also get a few other perks.

Agree on OP being past the ideal breaking point, but disagree on waiting any longer for the following couple reasons:
1. An extra skill proficiency and two expertised skills is great all on their own. (EDIT: If you don’t have it already and you plan to go thief, pick up sleight of hand with the extra proficiency. And be sure to expertise it!)
2. OP is a S&B fighter. He doesn’t have many ways of boosting damage output like a GWF or archer would have (namely, GWM and sharpshooter, respectively).

[Specter]

Unless you want the level 8 ASI, do it now. You'll be surprised at how much Sneak Attack adds to your damage, and the other Rogue stuff is too good to pass either.

[QuintonBeck]

Popping in to agree with Mr. Fahrenheit and opining that a disarm focused fighter sounds like a lot of fun and not something you see that often. If you don't want to go Thief I would consider Mastermind before Assassin. Assassin is neat and all but a Bonus Help action at range of 30 ft is an awesome pocket-sized buff. Now, you do have Shield Master to put people prone and grant advantage that way with your Bonus Action but that requires a roll and hurts rather than helps ranged attacks. Help is a one-time grant of advantage but there's no roll and it works for ranged or melee attacks plus you can potentially target an enemy other than the one you're engaged with.

[youtellatale]

Thanks guys. As far as what I gain from MC into Rogue, I believe that I only get:

skill on the rogue's skill list
proficiency with thieves' tools
proficiency with light armor


I was planning on taking Stealth as my skill so that I could get double proficiency. I wasn't sure really about how Expertise interacts because it deals with proficiencies. The MC table lists what proficiencies you get, but again I'm not really sure about whether or not Expertise being a class feature supersedes the rule about only gaining 1 skill. Help with this would be awesome, so thoughts & opinions are welcome (obviously).

Really I'm most excited about gaining Sneak Attack & proficiency with thieves' tools. We can never disarm traps simply because we tend to roll poorly and have no proficiencies in the party for it. I am also (sadly) the highest INT character in the party with a 10. We didn't optimize but damn if the group isn't the most fun group of guys to play D&D with.

[MrFahrenheit]

Ooh that’s a tough one if you don’t already have stealth or sleight of hand prior to MCing rogue. You definitely want to pick stealth up as your proficiency.

At rogue 1, you get two experitse’d skills that you’re proficient in from the rogue skill proficiency list.

Options if you still want to pursue this path:

•If your cha or wis are high enough, you could MC ranger or bard first (preferably bard - a little bit of healing is nice in a pinch) to get proficiency in one, THEN dip rogue for the other.

•...or go one more level of fighter before MCing. Since your dex is already 20, take the skilled feat and make sure one of the three proficiencies you get is in either sleight of hand or stealth.

Either way, make sure one of the skills you put expertise into is sleight of hand.

[Knaight]

Popping in to agree with Mr. Fahrenheit and opining that a disarm focused fighter sounds like a lot of fun and not something you see that often. If you don't want to go Thief I would consider Mastermind before Assassin. Assassin is neat and all but a Bonus Help action at range of 30 ft is an awesome pocket-sized buff. Now, you do have Shield Master to put people prone and grant advantage that way with your Bonus Action but that requires a roll and hurts rather than helps ranged attacks. Help is a one-time grant of advantage but there's no roll and it works for ranged or melee attacks plus you can potentially target an enemy other than the one you're engaged with.

A disarm focused fighter is a pretty campaign specific build, particularly by mid level. If most of your opponents are armed humanoids (or giants), go for it. If you find yourself up against tooth and claw, not so much.

[djreynolds]

Unless you want the level 8 ASI, do it now. You'll be surprised at how much Sneak Attack adds to your damage, and the other Rogue stuff is too good to pass either.

There it is. You have your 2 attacks, and 3 attacks is 4 levels away.

SA damage is great as is expertise. And cunning action is awesome.

[youtellatale]

Thanks all. I think I'm leaning toward taking 1-2 levels of Rogue right now. I'll take Stealth as my skill and add expertise to Stealth + Perception. After that I will go get Fighter 8 and likely take a feat. I am debating between Sentinel (more chances for SA), Mage Slayer (we fight at least 1 caster per night we game), Alert (going first can be good with Assassin), Martial Adept (more Sup dice), Defensive Dualist (seems redundant with Riposte no?), Mobile (extra movement + extra stuff isn't bad).

Advice on feat? I'll level after our next game night and our DM said we'd be leveling again near Christmas because we have a big all-day adventure coming up that is basically 3 nights' worth of gaming + our normal game nights. Should I do Rogue 1 then back to fighter for the ASI/feat or should I do Rogue 2/3/4/5 and then bounce back to Fighter?

[Spiderguy24]

Thanks all. I think I'm leaning toward taking 1-2 levels of Rogue right now. I'll take Stealth as my skill and add expertise to Stealth + Perception. After that I will go get Fighter 8 and likely take a feat. I am debating between Sentinel (more chances for SA), Mage Slayer (we fight at least 1 caster per night we game), Alert (going first can be good with Assassin), Martial Adept (more Sup dice), Defensive Dualist (seems redundant with Riposte no?), Mobile (extra movement + extra stuff isn't bad).

Advice on feat? I'll level after our next game night and our DM said we'd be leveling again near Christmas because we have a big all-day adventure coming up that is basically 3 nights' worth of gaming + our normal game nights. Should I do Rogue 1 then back to fighter for the ASI/feat or should I do Rogue 2/3/4/5 and then bounce back to Fighter?

I have a Rogue/Fighter character in the homebrew game I'm in (low level for now though) but my plan is to bring him up to Fighter 8/Rogue 12. My suggestion for your current level would be to take the first level in Rogue, then fighter for the ASI or feat, then Rogue at least until level 5 or 6 if you want to expertise in two more rogue skills or one skill and thieves tools. As for feat... it really depends on what archetype you want for the Rogue. If you're going Assassin, Alert isn't a bad option at all even before you get to Rogue 3. Defensive Duelist is pretty meh though, same with Mobile unless you need that extra boost of speed and you come across difficult terrain very often. Something about SA to remember, is that you can activate it one per -turn-, any turn I should add, so try to take advantage of that when you can. I'm not too familiar with Sentinel or Mage Slayer, so no idea if they will be useful to your style of fighting. Martial Adept is always nice for Battlemaster.

[rooneg]

My Fighter/Rogue (a "build your own ranger" type archer) went Rogue 1, Fighter 1-5, Rogue 2, Fighter 6+. I started at Rogue 1 for the extra skill, but there are certainly arguments for starting Fighter 1 for the save proficiency. I can see an argument for wanting Rogue 2 earlier (Cunning Action is awesome), but being a Fighter without Extra Attack is terrible, and you're putting off that first ASI which hurts (especially for a non-human who wants Sharpshooter or Crossbow Expert).

[ChildofLuthic]

I was thinking about a character that was Fighter 5/Rogue X. That's two chances two sneak attack and you can still use your cunning action.

[Trustypeaches]

Thanks guys. As far as what I gain from MC into Rogue, I believe that I only get:

skill on the rogue's skill list
proficiency with thieves' tools
proficiency with light armor


I was planning on taking Stealth as my skill so that I could get double proficiency. I wasn't sure really about how Expertise interacts because it deals with proficiencies. The MC table lists what proficiencies you get, but again I'm not really sure about whether or not Expertise being a class feature supersedes the rule about only gaining 1 skill. Help with this would be awesome, so thoughts & opinions are welcome (obviously).

Really I'm most excited about gaining Sneak Attack & proficiency with thieves' tools. We can never disarm traps simply because we tend to roll poorly and have no proficiencies in the party for it. I am also (sadly) the highest INT character in the party with a 10. We didn't optimize but damn if the group isn't the most fun group of guys to play D&D with.Expertise is a class feature, not a multiclass feature. You get it like any other first level class benefit when you take a level in the class.