Help with Shuriken/throwing Build

[Anastobe]

I have found a couple of builds that kind of work for what I would like to do.

I have seen the Ninja 7/Master Thrower 5/ and the rest in Ninja.

I was thinking something that has Bloodstorm Blade in it also. Not sure how it would work.

The GM ruled that Riverine Shurikens wouldn't break on impact or missing.

Any Book is allowed as long as it isn't 3rd party, Dragon Magazine is allowed., and I would prefer to keep the level adjustment no higher than +2, Given that buy off is allowed, and fractional BAB/saves, and flaws are all fair game.

I normally just play casters, so this is a little out of my normal depth.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

I had a similar build(I will edit it in in a few hours when I get home)

I will use The Dark template for Hide in Plain Sight and max Hide and Move Silently for the extra damage and go for a ring of blinking and later will search a Greater Blinking version.
Take the Darkstalker feat for the hiding part, it will be useful vs senses and places you can't be invisible.


Fore Master Thrower tricks I will take Weak Spot, Sneaky Shot and Palm Throw(for 2 times poison in every attack, everything can roll 1 if he isn't​ immune so use your cheapest poison all the time and stronger ones for stronger enemies).
for this you will want to max Spot and Slight of Hand.
Use the Sneaky Shot only when you can't get you SA as it cost you a move action but remove the enemy Dex to AC(If you look at the text Uncanny Dodge will not help. they lose Dex to AC, they are not Flat Fotted.).

I think you will be better with Rouge instead of Ninja because SA in better and I don't see anything useful in the ninja that isn't poison use and late game attack from etreal(I think UMD with a Rouge will do it better).

[Jowgen]

Master Thrower 5 is indeed a must, especially since making (flat-footed) touch attacks means you can more or less squander your to-hit bonus for more attacks (TWF, Rapid Shot, etc.). Beyond that, I would personally recommend going for sources of flat damage per hit, rather than Precision damage. There are a few rather handy ways to add Dex to ranged damage for example. Great on a build like this.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Master Thrower 5 is indeed a must, especially since making (flat-footed) touch attacks means you can more or less squander your to-hit bonus for more attacks (TWF, Rapid Shot, etc.). Beyond that, I would personally recommend going for sources of flat damage per hit, rather than Precision damage. There are a few rather handy ways to add Dex to ranged damage for example. Great on a build like this.

I didn't saw anyway to make enemies flat-footed in the Master Thrower tricks.


Deadeye(Dragon Compendium P.95) is a great source for Dex to Damage with Precision Damage because he have to same range limit but it doesn't work on crit immune enemies.

[ottdmk]

You're right, none of the Master Thrower tricks help make a target flat-footed. But if you can get a target flat-footed, Weak Spot (which grants you a ranged touch attack in exchange for no Str bonus to damage) gets ridiculously good.

[Jowgen]

You're right, none of the Master Thrower tricks help make a target flat-footed. But if you can get a target flat-footed, Weak Spot (which grants you a ranged touch attack in exchange for no Str bonus to damage) gets ridiculously good.

This. For example, Hide is Dex based, which you already get to hit and AC, and can get to Damage several times as well using Dead Eye, Hit n Run Fighter ACF, and the Targeteer Fighter variant's Vital Aim ability (though it's questionable whether that works with Weak Spot/Palm Throw).

Something like the Dark Template (make sure to use the Faerun version) build BloodSnake'sCha suggested would work.

[Eladrinblade]

Add in a level of monk for flurry of blows, which stacks with TWF & Rapid Shot and works with shuriken. Also be a halfling, obviously.

[Nifft]

A few levels of Monk for the Invisible Fist ACF might be useful.

[Jowgen]

Add in a level of monk for flurry of blows, which stacks with TWF & Rapid Shot and works with shuriken. Also be a halfling, obviously.


A few levels of Monk for the Invisible Fist ACF might be useful.

Okay, so we got a Dark Template Strongheart Halfling... I'd say start with 2 levels Ranger (Rapid Shot, full BAB and skill points), then 2 levels Fighter (Targeteer variant with Hit n Run ACF), then 2 levels Monk (Flurry, Invisible Fist ACF); and finally Master Thrower 5.

Gloves of the Balanced Hand from MIC gives ITWF for 8000 gp.Targeteer's Arrow Swarm and Vital Aim can be paid for with Monk bonus feats (inc. Improved Unarmed Strike). So at level 11, this character should have the following attack sequence: BAB 1+ Rapid Shot + TWF + Flurry + Arrow Swarm 1+ Arrow Swarm 2 + BAB2 +ITWF. The total penalty to attack is a whole -11 (-16 on the last 2), but that is 8 attacks that all get doubled via Palm Throw (so effectively 16), are made as flat-footed touch-attacks (near guaranteed hit), and add Dex to damage twice. So damage outpute should be around Dex times 32 plus dice at level 11.

[Darrin]

A dip into Exotic Weapon Master might be worth a look for this sentence:

"Throw Exotic Weapon: The character can throw an exotic weapon with no penalty on the attack roll, even if it isn’t designed to be thrown (such as an orc double axe or a spiked chain)."

(emphasis added)

If your DM sticks to strict RAW, then no penalty means no range penalty, no TWF penalty, no flurry penalty, etc. You get all your shuriken attacks at your full attack bonus.

[Eladrinblade]

A dip into Exotic Weapon Master might be worth a look for this sentence:

"Throw Exotic Weapon: The character can throw an exotic weapon with no penalty on the attack roll, even if it isn’t designed to be thrown (such as an orc double axe or a spiked chain)."

(emphasis added)

If your DM sticks to strict RAW, then no penalty means no range penalty, no TWF penalty, no flurry penalty, etc. You get all your shuriken attacks at your full attack bonus.

:smallannoyed:

That just means you don't take the -4 penalty from throwing weapons not designed to be thrown or the -4 penalty from using an exotic weapon you aren't proficient with.

[Darrin]

That just means you don't take the -4 penalty from throwing weapons not designed to be thrown or the -4 penalty from using an exotic weapon you aren't proficient with.

Or, in the interests of exceedingly obtuse pedantry, I could deliberately misinterpret the rules to obtain a dubious and lop-sided advantage for my character.

[Eladrinblade]

Or, in the interests of exceedingly obtuse pedantry, I could deliberately misinterpret the rules to obtain a dubious and lop-sided advantage for my character.

Well, this is giantitp. I apologize, I was in the wrong.

[Grod_The_Giant]

If Dragon Magazine is on the table, Targeteer Fighter 1 (for their Vital Strike ability) seems real hard not to justify dipping for a throwing build.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

You're right, none of the Master Thrower tricks help make a target flat-footed. But if you can get a target flat-footed, Weak Spot (which grants you a ranged touch attack in exchange for no Str bonus to damage) gets ridiculously good.

You can still make him dex-less to armour by using SoH and that will trigger SA(This is better because a lot of stuff immune to begin flat-footed but I didn't see anything immune to denied dex bonus).


Sneaky Shot: Just before making a ranged attack, a master thrower with this ability can use a move action to make a Sleight of Hand check opposed by her target’s Spot check.

If she wins the opposed check, her opponent is denied his Dexterity bonus to Armor Class against the attack.

[Jowgen]

You can still make him dex-less to armour by using SoH and that will trigger SA(This is better because a lot of stuff immune to begin flat-footed but I didn't see anything immune to denied dex bonus).

The issue is the move action part. Arguably, you can make the Sleight of Hand check at a -20 penalty (or -10 with Master Pickpocket) to do it as a free action and thus full attack. But that's DM-territority afaik. If it works, then great; another thing to add to the Dex Synergy list

[jmax]

It isn't specifically a build, but you can add shuriken awesomeness to any build with sneak attack and UMD through the use of the threesteel spell (Dragons of Faerun, p119). Shuriken are the ideal weapon for that spell because they're cheap and tiny. Plus it's a cool visual.

You can, of course, also do that with a sorcerer or wizard that can reach CL 25 with shapechange and turn into a Gloom (www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/gloom.htm).

[Anastobe]

Thanks for all the replies. Made a character played a game with and my gm decided that I needed to change things around. Riverine will no longer keep the shurikens from breaking. And that he was going to intentionally screw me over since I am/would be out damaging the rest of the party.

So not wanting to switch the character completely around, I am now looking to build a halfling throwing build, doesn't matter what I throw at this point.

[Jowgen]

So not wanting to switch the character completely around, I am now looking to build a halfling throwing build, doesn't matter what I throw at this point.

I think someone already mentioned Gloves of Endless Javelins, but they do warrant re-mentioning. If you use them, do insist that as force effects they overcome DR/hardness.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Thanks for all the replies. Made a character played a game with and my gm decided that I needed to change things around. Riverine will no longer keep the shurikens from breaking. And that he was going to intentionally screw me over since I am/would be out damaging the rest of the party.

So not wanting to switch the character completely around, I am now looking to build a halfling throwing build, doesn't matter what I throw at this point.
Daggers are nice, my Master Thrower use 3 returning daggers.

Hammer, Light have 20ft range
Shortspear and Spear are the same

All of them can also be use in melee so you have something to do if someone get to you.

give them returning so you will get them back and add some crystals for extra damage.
I will add everbright for the immunity to rust and acid so you will not lose your weapons.

You can still use Rouge/Master Thrower build but if you want to change go for Power Attack, Brutal Throw and Power Throw and become STR base but if you do it change the Throwing Tricks to ones that not destroy you STR to damage.

[jmax]

Riverine will no longer keep the shurikens from breaking.

Plain old shuriken are dirt cheap - 0.2 gp apiece. After maybe 3rd level it's not even worth tracking them anymore - just assume you spend 10-20 gp per level on them and don't worry about it.

You might also ask if you can get a shuriken version of the Quiver of Lies at a 99% discount because the stock price is ridiculous but the item encourages great (if silly) roleplaying.


I think someone already mentioned Gloves of Endless Javelins, but they do warrant re-mentioning. If you use them, do insist that as force effects they overcome DR/hardness.

+1. I love these. Note that they produce as many per round as you want. It would be totally reasonable (and actually a slight nerf) to re-build it for daggers or shuriken. Unlike the Quiver of Lies, this one is priced reasonably.

Hadn't thought about the damage reduction/hardness bit - I like it! Sounds totally legit technically, although I wouldn't blame any DM for nerfing that down. It's already an awesome item.

[Gruftzwerg]

I was thinking something that has Bloodstorm Blade in it also. Not sure how it would work.


May I suggest to have a look at my ShurikeNado (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?526875)build?

- BSB enables (safer) ranged ubercharger build
- high attack/round rate
- Whirlwind as AoE option to hit every enemy in range
- high combat mobility due to Stagger (change directions while charging, a single tumble DC 15 check per round to prevent any AoO due to movement from leaving threatened squares)

I you are looking for straight combat power, here you go. Imho Master Thrower builds can't compete here (and don't have much useful stuff for ubercharger to make it into the build).

edit: Other odd throwing builds that I could offer would be my Hammerdin and Shivering Tornado build.