Monk killing another player character.

[PhantomKillua]

Okai, so in my most recent D&d game. I was playing a Swashbuckler/rouge, I was a level 2. My buddy was playing a level 17 monk. I was helping him clear a temple for his church, we got to a door and the dm said my character was mad at something. So for RP I tried to kick the door open, the door was a mimic, It grabbed my leg inside of it's mouth. long story shot it smashed my leg so badly that it was unuseable. After all of that happened the Monk prayed to his god for a favor, the god didn't respond. So I prayed to my god, who was a god of ultimate Evil, It turned me from Chaotic neut to Chaotic Evil. The god came to where we were, Looked at my character and told me to beg for my life, so my Swashbuckler/rouge tried her best to beg for her life, She failed and the god took all of her levels, feats, skills, and made all of her stats 9 so she was now a commoner. The Monk after watching my character fall so far in such a small amount of time grabbed his dagger and decide to slit my Swashbuckler's throat. Witch end turn ended up killing my swashbuckler. My question to everyone who reads this is, is a lawful good Monk allowed to kill my Chaotic Evil Swashbuckler who keep in mind broke no laws at all.


p.s. as a player not player character I knew I could have prayed to more gods, but my swashbuckler didn't know of any other gods.

Opinions wanted, because I believe that the monk should lose his monk levels and shouldn't be able to get them back.

[Yogibear41]

I mean, you prayed to the "ultimate evil" and it showed up. Most definitely and evil act there.

The entire situation seems pretty freaking busted to me though. Faithful Level 17 prays to a good deity it doesn't do anything. Level 2 nobody prays to an evil deity who could really care less about anyone and it does show up.

Your monk friend probably did you favor seeing as you were a level 1 commoner with 9s for all his stats.

Regardless of all that monks don't lose levels/powers for breaking alignment ever anyway. If they become non-lawful they just cant advance farther in monk levels.

[INoKnowNames]

First of all, it's a Paladin who gets screwed over by "moral dilemmas"*, not the Monk. The Monk need only stay lawful. And that's assuming a core monk, so even that isn't a necessity. They have no automatic oaths or anything like that. Lawful people can murder, too.

Secondly.... The entire situation seems like a mess, and quite frankly all bodies involved seem like they should be talking about what the hell happened. Yiu were traveling with someone 8x your level, had yout leg mangled by a random mimic because your character's mood was set for them, then were cursed several times over for worshiping some evil power, and you hold grievance only with being Mercy-killed? Am I reading that right?

*as set up usually by bad dms if they intentionally want the Paladin to fall.

[Eox]

Hey uh, if your DM is making you play a level 2 character alongside a level 17 character then you really should find any other game.

[Yogibear41]

I second the notion that you have a bad DM that has no idea what hes doing, and sounds like he is just trying to screw with you for no reason.



Hey uh, if your DM is making you play a level 2 character alongside a level 17 character then you really should find any other game.


This in and of itself is necessarily bad if the DM knows how to handle it. I recently started as a 1st level character in a group full of level 6-7 characters because I wanted to start from level 1.

My DM told me in the past characters who got "too old" and retired from adventuring, would often give their children (played by the same player that played the parents) there old magic items and things, and even come in and help them out on "tougher" adventures from time to time.

Jimmy might only be a 2nd level paladin, but his dad is level 25 and gave him his +5 Full plate, His holy avenger, and a slew of other magic items to kick start his career.

[Buufreak]

So you had a dm put you 15 levels down, tell you how your character was feeling, screwed you out of the little bit you had, then railroaded you into getting killed by party?

This isn't a party issue. This is a dm issue.

[Peat]

The monk staying a monk is about the only thing that sounds fine to me in that.

[Psyren]

So you had a dm put you 15 levels down, tell you how your character was feeling, screwed you out of the little bit you had, then railroaded you into getting killed by party?

This isn't a party issue. This is a dm issue.

This - OP, your DM sounds like he's smoking the good stuff. Get him to share!

[PhantomKillua]

I mean, you prayed to the "ultimate evil" and it showed up. Most definitely and evil act there.

The entire situation seems pretty freaking busted to me though. Faithful Level 17 prays to a good deity it doesn't do anything. Level 2 nobody prays to an evil deity who could really care less about anyone and it does show up.

Your monk friend probably did you favor seeing as you were a level 1 commoner with 9s for all his stats.

Regardless of all that monks don't lose levels/powers for breaking alignment ever anyway. If they become non-lawful they just cant advance farther in monk levels.

So Monks can kill people who haven't broken the law/cause harm to anyone else?

[Eox]

They're disciplined mortals, not law elementals.

[PhantomKillua]

I mean, you prayed to the "ultimate evil" and it showed up. Most definitely and evil act there.

The entire situation seems pretty freaking busted to me though. Faithful Level 17 prays to a good deity it doesn't do anything. Level 2 nobody prays to an evil deity who could really care less about anyone and it does show up.

Your monk friend probably did you favor seeing as you were a level 1 commoner with 9s for all his stats.

Regardless of all that monks don't lose levels/powers for breaking alignment ever anyway. If they become non-lawful they just cant advance farther in monk levels.

My Character had did some stuff with this deity before so she knew him fairly well.

[PhantomKillua]

First of all, it's a Paladin who gets screwed over by "moral dilemmas"*, not the Monk. The Monk need only stay lawful. And that's assuming a core monk, so even that isn't a necessity. They have no automatic oaths or anything like that. Lawful people can murder, too.

Secondly.... The entire situation seems like a mess, and quite frankly all bodies involved seem like they should be talking about what the hell happened. Yiu were traveling with someone 8x your level, had yout leg mangled by a random mimic because your character's mood was set for them, then were cursed several times over for worshiping some evil power, and you hold grievance only with being Mercy-killed? Am I reading that right?

*as set up usually by bad dms if they intentionally want the Paladin to fall.

I'm also a bit pissed on how I even got there, I was given no chance to say no. I'm mostly pissed at the fact that my character still had a will to live and after having her levels striped away it gave her a new motive to destroy the deity of ultimate evil, but was still killed by the monk after she told him this.

[Remuko]

I'm also a bit pissed on how I even got there, I was given no chance to say no. I'm mostly pissed at the fact that my character still had a will to live and after having her levels striped away it gave her a new motive to destroy the deity of ultimate evil, but was still killed by the monk after she told him this.

As others said this is a DM issue. You should never be forced to be 15 levels lower than another player. A DM should absolutely in NO circumstances EVER tell YOU how YOUR character does/should feel. The whole evil god bit sounded like some heavy DM "rocks fall, you die" stuff too. The Lawful Good Monk killing you after you successfully summoned an ultimate evil god and he did something to you, the monk making that decision so quickly is a bit odd but theres nothing wrong with it. A Lawful Good person can commit a heinous Chaotic Evil act, theres nothing "wrong" with it, it could just shift their alignment. The monk bit is the only part of your story thats not part of the problem.

[emeraldstreak]

Good.

Now be back with a level 17 Wizard.

[noob]

Good.

Now be back with a level 17 Wizard.

He can not do that: he have to come back to level of the lowest level member of the group -1 or 1(whichever is highest) so he must come back as level 1 since he was level 1 when killed.
But level 1 wizards can cast level 9 spells if they are elves.
Anyway I think the solution is to walk away from the gm until you reach a local maximum in distance(so for example go on the other side of the earth or become an astronaut) then stay as far as possible from him at all times.

[Telonius]

Sometimes I think that the "Find another group!" reflex is a bit overused on the boards. That said: find another group! The Monk has been around for 17 levels, and apparently is the only other player. That suggests to me they've either been gaming just between the two of them for a long, long time, or other players have had a similar experience to yours and left the room running. Either way, whatever ridiculous habits they've gotten themselves into are not going to change.

[KillianHawkeye]

So Monks can kill people who haven't broken the law/cause harm to anyone else?

Yes, because literally anyone can do that.

Most people wouldn't, but they can, and they don't even suffer any immediate consequences unless they're a Paladin.

[Rerednaw]

I'd try a conversation out of game expressing how you felt about your experience and what you like to see moving forward.

If the resulting consensus is 'vote with your feet' then regretfully I'd vote with my feet.

I also suggesting to try table top games online. There are several groups that run games using virtual tabletops (roll20.net is one example).

Good luck sir!

[Eldariel]

As others said this is a DM issue. You should never be forced to be 15 levels lower than another player. A DM should absolutely in NO circumstances EVER tell YOU how YOUR character does/should feel. The whole evil god bit sounded like some heavy DM "rocks fall, you die" stuff too. The Lawful Good Monk killing you after you successfully summoned an ultimate evil god and he did something to you, the monk making that decision so quickly is a bit odd but theres nothing wrong with it. A Lawful Good person can commit a heinous Chaotic Evil act, theres nothing "wrong" with it, it could just shift their alignment. The monk bit is the only part of your story thats not part of the problem.

Well, it could be some unnoticed affliction or curse or whatever from the temple; that part isn't clear here. He did presumably clear traps from the dungeon after all so it's fully possible he unknowingly put himself under the influence of an effect. I really don't comprehend the big picture with the praying and the deities though; apparently this Rogue was more or less acquainted with the god of ultimate evil and was his servant even though he was neutral (while technically legal, I'm not sure how that works). Not that it being understandable vindicates what happened. But in a world of Mind Rapes, Charms, Dominates, etc. it's sometimes necessary for a DM to inform a player that they're feeling something they weren't aware of.

[TheIronGolem]

Okai, so in my most recent D&d game. I was playing a Swashbuckler/rouge, I was a level 2. My buddy was playing a level 17 monk.
Pretty sure you're too young for this reference, but danger, Will Robinson! That kind of level spread between players is pretty much never a good idea, and the sign of a DM who at best has no idea what they're doing.


we got to a door and the dm said my character was mad at something.
Barring exotic circumstances like mind-control magic, the DM doesn't get to decide how your character feels. It's your character - you decide how they feel about the situation they're in. That "I'm the DM, I control all!" nonsense is for children, of either the literal or man- variety.


So for RP I tried to kick the door open, the door was a mimic, It grabbed my leg inside of it's mouth. long story shot it smashed my leg so badly that it was unuseable.
Here's another "inexperienced or incompetent DM" flag. Baiting a player into taking a certain action ("you're really angry now, person who's about to open a door!") and then springing punitive consequences for taking that action ("the door is secretly a monster and it eats your leg, haha gotcha!") is a petty, childish thing to do. It's understandable if the DM is really young or really new to DM'ing, but it should still be immediately called out as the **** move that it is so they can learn from that mistake and avoid repeating it.


After all of that happened the Monk prayed to his god for a favor, the god didn't respond. So I prayed to my god, who was a god of ultimate Evil, It turned me from Chaotic neut to Chaotic Evil. The god came to where we were, Looked at my character and told me to beg for my life, so my Swashbuckler/rouge tried her best to beg for her life, She failed and the god took all of her levels, feats, skills, and made all of her stats 9 so she was now a commoner.
Okay, so in this setting anybody can just pray when they're in a jam and have a significant chance of their god personally showing up to sort it out for them? I suspect you guys - and particularly your DM - haven't thought through the logical consequences of what that world would actually be like if things worked that way.

And whaddaya mean your character failed at begging for her life? Did your DM effectively undo your character because you blew one social roll? Or worse, did they decide you weren't "roleplaying hard enough" and punish you on that basis? Because both of those are BS, though the second one is worse. In any event the DM had no business subjecting you to even the possibility of such a penalty. They basically threw you into shark-infested waters and then offered you a lifejacket that turned out to be made of live cobras.


The Monk after watching my character fall so far in such a small amount of time grabbed his dagger and decide to slit my Swashbuckler's throat. Witch end turn ended up killing my swashbuckler.
In most gamer stories this would be the weird part. But here, it's the least crazy thing that happened. Either the monk (from an in-character perspective) was worried your character was going to suffer further torture at the hands of this evil god and did the only thing he could to spare her, or it was a purely metagame decision and your fellow player was probably trying to make it so that you could roll up a new character instead of having to play a freaking commoner.


My question to everyone who reads this is, is a lawful good Monk allowed to kill my Chaotic Evil Swashbuckler who keep in mind broke no laws at all.
Alignment doesn't determine what you're "allowed" to do, so yes, the lawful good monk can murder you in cold blood if he wants (assuming it even was in cold blood; given the likely motivations explained above). It might cause an alignment change, but it would be along the Good-Evil axis, not the Lawful-Chaotic axis.


p.s. as a player not player character I knew I could have prayed to more gods, but my swashbuckler didn't know of any other gods.
In the future I recommend you not pray to any gods under this DM, because divine intervention is obviously not something they're capable of doing right.


Opinions wanted, because I believe that the monk should lose his monk levels and shouldn't be able to get them back.
No, you're straight up wrong about this. That's not how monks work, at all. Even if the player were a paladin and this were a fall-worthy offense (debatable given the context), redemption would not be off the table.

[INoKnowNames]

They basically threw you into shark-infested waters and then offered you a lifejacket that turned out to be made of live cobras.

Were it not for me keeping a status of my current life situation on there, I'd sig this. I heavily encourage someone else to sig this. With permission, of course.

I find it interesting that we can all agree, for the most part, that Op is -definitely- focused on the least offensive part of an overall terrible situation.

[Calthropstu]

So Monks can kill people who haven't broken the law/cause harm to anyone else?

I am pretty sure that summoning the ultimate evil is generally harmful to everyone.

[Yahzi]

I am pretty sure that summoning the ultimate evil is generally harmful to everyone.

I agree. The monk killing some low-level minion who just demonstrated the power to summon the Ultimate Evil to this plane is the only good part of that scenario.

Everything else stinks. Why was the OP playing a) an evil character, b) with an evil god, c) at level 2 when the rest of the party was 17, d) how is it a 17th level monk can't deal with a broken leg - are healing potions non-existent in this world? e) why is the 2nd level kicking open doors? f) why is the DM telling him he's mad at "something..."

It all stinks. OP, find another game. Even if it's just solitaire.

[Quertus]

So Monks can kill people who haven't broken the law/cause harm to anyone else?

Yup.


My Character had did some stuff with this deity before so she knew him fairly well.

Your second level character... did stuff with a god before?


I find it interesting that we can all agree, for the most part, that Op is -definitely- focused on the least offensive part of an overall terrible situation.

Disagreeing with the consensus is kinda my thing, but, uh, yeah, I agree - that was the most sane part of this story.

EDIT: well, I must admit, I have seen that level of level variance work, and I'm kinda a fan, but that was in older editions.

[Calthropstu]

Your second level character... did stuff with a god before?

Hey, gods need lovin too.

[Quertus]

Hey, gods need lovin too.

Oh god. Oh god. Oh god.

Also, is nice to hear stories of monks doing things! So much better than the usual "monks are useless" stories that usually plague these forums.

[GrayDeath]

Hey, gods need lovin too.


Oh god. Oh god. Oh god.

Also, is nice to hear stories of monks doing things! So much better than the usual "monks are useless" stories that usually plague these forums.


You two just made my Day (well, evening^^).


@ OP: it might be useful if you provided a bit more clear data regarding the Why`s and How`s (Why are you 15 levels below the Monk, why were you kicking the door instead of him, is there no healing in this setting, why were you 2 praying to gods and expecting them to answer (being NonClerics that IS unusual, nothing to say about Level 2 characters whop had things with Gods" before), how was the DM making your Character Mad", how were you "Nerfed" by the god and so on).

Going from the data provided so far, sparse as it is, I`d agree that the Monk killing off your poor Commonified Bloke was the LEAST weird/bad/crazy thing there...

And agree you should REALLY talk with your GM.

[Goaty14]

You pray to the god of Ultimate Evil ONCE and your alignment changes! Sheesh it's like everybody's a paladin now!

[INoKnowNames]

You pray to the god of Ultimate Evil ONCE and your alignment changes! Sheesh it's like everybody's a paladin now!

This thread is sig-bait.

[Dragolord]

I wouldn't say that a second-level commoner with six nines is, in any meaningful sense, a player character.

[Westhart]

Jimmy might only be a 2nd level paladin, but his dad is level 25 and gave him his +5 Full plate, His holy avenger, and a slew of other magic items to kick start his career.

Of course at that point your not just a 2nd level paladin yeah? :smallwink:

[Yogibear41]

Of course at that point your not just a 2nd level paladin yeah? :smallwink:


Personally, I rather play Morgoth the level 30 Anti-Paladin, who unlocked the secret to eternal youth, created a new pseudo-hell as his kingdom on the material plane, and casually sucks the souls out of low level paladins for kicks. Not to mention all the succubus cohorts he could ever want.

Who needs kids amirite?

[Westhart]

Personally, I rather play Morgoth the level 30 Anti-Paladin, who unlocked the secret to eternal youth, created a new pseudo-hell as his kingdom on the material plane, and casually sucks the souls out of low level paladins for kicks. Not to mention all the succubus cohorts he could ever want.

Who needs kids amirite?

Yep... y'know, this raises the question of "why monk?" :smalltongue:

Not to mention the situation is pure bull**** as pointed out numerous types by the other posters :smallmad:

[Mystral]

Okai, so in my most recent D&d game. I was playing a Swashbuckler/rouge, I was a level 2. My buddy was playing a level 17 monk. I was helping him clear a temple for his church, we got to a door and the dm said my character was mad at something. So for RP I tried to kick the door open, the door was a mimic, It grabbed my leg inside of it's mouth. long story shot it smashed my leg so badly that it was unuseable. After all of that happened the Monk prayed to his god for a favor, the god didn't respond. So I prayed to my god, who was a god of ultimate Evil, It turned me from Chaotic neut to Chaotic Evil. The god came to where we were, Looked at my character and told me to beg for my life, so my Swashbuckler/rouge tried her best to beg for her life, She failed and the god took all of her levels, feats, skills, and made all of her stats 9 so she was now a commoner. The Monk after watching my character fall so far in such a small amount of time grabbed his dagger and decide to slit my Swashbuckler's throat. Witch end turn ended up killing my swashbuckler. My question to everyone who reads this is, is a lawful good Monk allowed to kill my Chaotic Evil Swashbuckler who keep in mind broke no laws at all.


p.s. as a player not player character I knew I could have prayed to more gods, but my swashbuckler didn't know of any other gods.

Opinions wanted, because I believe that the monk should lose his monk levels and shouldn't be able to get them back.
You summoned ultimate evil into the world. If that's not a crime, what is?

[Captn_Flounder]

You summoned ultimate evil into the world. If that's not a crime, what is?


Once had a player who kept reminding us his Orc PC's pants component of his leather armor were of the assless chap variety.