Mindflayers == Slaadi ???

[deathbymanga]

So, a hypothesis brewed in my mind while reading about these guys.

Both mind flayers and slaadi are amphibious and reproduce via inserting a larvae into a humanoid victim. Biologically they are very similar, but the key difference is their diet, since I doubt Slaadi eat people's brains.

However, a key point i want to bring up, is the mud Slaadi, which, unlike other sladdi, does not go through the red/blue cycle, instead always making another mud slaadi, and like the blue slaadi, their chaosphage actively transforms the victim into another mud slaadi. The mud slaadi also have psionic abilties, in that they can psychically coerce people to feel sorry for them, ensuring they are pitied enough to let live.

Now, we also know that mindflayers are not from this time period. the reason the aboleths, the oldest non-outsider race in the universe, was defeated by the mindflayers, was because the mind flayers appeared out of nowhere, having evolved from seemingly nothing. This implied that their existence suddenly spawned out of nowhere. Their only known gods are Ilsensine and Maanzecorian, the former of which only showed up after the duergr nearly destroyed one of their underdark cities. The mindflayers didn't even colonize the underdark until AFTER they had been defeated by the Gith. and considering monte Cook's Dead god's pdf version of the book is behind a pay wall, I can't even confirm his canon. So, if no god can claim responsibility for making the mindflayers, and no crazy wizard can be blamed, and they didn't even exist until now, then the best answer we can get is that the mindflayers either literally spawned out of nowhere from nothing, or are time travelers from the future.

Now, going back to the Gith, one important point is that the gith also have strong psionic powers and have taken over much of the lost territory they stole from the mindflayer empire. Not only that, but the Githzerai have now made their home IN limbo, the very place where Slaadi are born.

So, my hypothesis, is that not only are the gith the eventual ancestors of the Mindflayers, but that the MUD SLAADI are as well, either through a Mud Slaadi infecting a Githzerai, or something even worse happening with the spawning stone.

Thoughts?

[Boggartbae]

naw because slaadi are creatures of pure chaos, and Mindflayers are usually lawful I think. I always assumed that ilithid's were from another planet, and that they just crash landed and took over, but I would believe they were mutated Gith (but not part slaad)

Either way, it's a cool theory, so kudos for coming up with it

[deathbymanga]

naw because slaadi are creatures of pure chaos, and Mindflayers are usually lawful I think. I always assumed that ilithid's were from another planet, and that they just crash landed and took over, but I would believe they were mutated Gith (but not part slaad)

Either way, it's a cool theory, so kudos for coming up with it

the aboleths had one of the greatest encyclopedias of universal knowledge. each "CORE" abberation race has some gimmick built around the mind (mindflayers literally eat brains, beholders spawn from imagination, etc) and the Aboleth's is literal knowledge. the idea of the mind flayer suddenly showing up, would be the equivalent of a Car landing in Ancient Rome. You could have someone from the dawn of time uncover this car, and they'd have no idea what it could even be used for.

The only way for the aboleths to have no idea what the mind flayer are is if there was nothing there to begin with that could have spawned them

[OldTrees1]

When were the aboleths surprised?
Was it before or after the Illithids used time travel?
Was it before or after the time in the past that the Illithids traveled to?

If the aboleths were surprised by the time travelers, that would be an easier to explain hole in their knowledge (since the aboleth knowledge base is based on remembering everything that happened IIRC)

[torrasque666]

IIRC Mind Flayers came from the future, fleeing either a great cataclysm or a great threat.

[deathbymanga]

When were the aboleths surprised?
Was it before or after the Illithids used time travel?
Was it before or after the time in the past that the Illithids traveled to?

If the aboleths were surprised by the time travelers, that would be an easier to explain hole in their knowledge (since the aboleth knowledge base is based on remembering everything that happened IIRC)

I feel like you answered your own question

[Mordaedil]

IIRC Mind Flayers came from the future, fleeing either a great cataclysm or a great threat.
Yes, it's oddly printed in the Aboleth section of Lords of Madness book, as the aboleths have memories inherited from when time began inherited from their parents, but they find mindflayers really scary because they just popped into existance at some point and then the book explains the reason why is fairly simple, both races are from opposite ends of time, illithids from a doomed future. They might no longer actually come to exist as they've already tampered with their original timeline, but who knows. They could have evolved from slaadi at some point.

[Luccan]

naw because slaadi are creatures of pure chaos, and Mindflayers are usually lawful I think. I always assumed that ilithid's were from another planet, and that they just crash landed and took over, but I would believe they were mutated Gith (but not part slaad)

Either way, it's a cool theory, so kudos for coming up with it

If we take the belief that they fled some great cataclysm in the future into account, perhaps it begat Law from Chaos, Chaos from Law, Good and Evil switched sides, dog and cats living together, mass hysteria, etc.. What I'm getting at is, perhaps if they were fleeing a great Cataclysm, it was as the fabric of the universe began to change in some fashion that caused the Chaos Toads to become the Cthulings. And that this change somehow doomed everybody, which is why they ran.

[Eldan]

Going by the words of Zerthimon, the mindflayers also had a great interstellar empire in the past. Or the Gith travelled from the future, too. After all, Gith and Zerthimon overthrew it and the currently existing Gith are their descendants.

Or the fluff was rewritten often. But D&D would never do that.

[gkathellar]

Eh, I much prefer Mind Flayers existing within a stable time loop. The notion that they just sort of are, without source or provenance, appeals to me.

[Mordaedil]

Aren't they like merchants in spelljammer? Does that mean they become docile at some point or are they still the same brain-eaters even in space?

[BWR]

Aren't they like merchants in spelljammer? Does that mean they become docile at some point or are they still the same brain-eaters even in space?

Oh, they are still scary as **** racially superior brain eaters. It's just that, like the beholders, some illithids feel that mercantile considerations are worth making peaceful (if not exactly friendly) contact with the lesser races. Taking over everything again takes time and money and the lesser beings have stuff they need (like slaves/food).


The illithids did indeed have an ancient interstellar empire, with some serious psitech (they made at least one ringworld, bigger an more impressive than Niven's; see "Dawn of the Overmind"), with protohuman slaves which rose against them, lead by Gith, splitting into the 'yanki and 'zerai pretty much on the eve of final victory.