How viable are 3.0 Paladins?

[Royce]

My DM is starting a Ravenloft campaign using 3.0 version DND. I got some good advice for my wizard transmuter earlier here. Now I’m looking to see how well the other PC is going to fare as a Paladin.
There are just two of us, so I think we will have a lot covered between a wizard and a paladin. I was just wondering if the 3.0 version Pally is up for the challenge.
3.0 version books only, no 3.5.

[Fizban]

3.0 Paladin is almost exactly the same as 3.5. It gets divine grace, lay on hands, and divine health all at 1st instead of delayed, and remove disease shows up earlier and with more uses, but smite evil doesn't show up till 2nd and only ever gets one use per day. The 3.0 DMG lacks the alternate mounts section found in 3.5 (which came from one of the 3.0 splats, Defenders of the Faith), so without that you'll only ever have a heavy warhorse, but the main class is pretty much the same.

So the main question is weather paladin is "viable" (and how I hate that word). Well, that and weather a 2 person party is viable, which is a more serious question.

[Royce]

I mean viable in the way the the guy playing the paladin is not the most thoughtful gamer. Not a chess player more of a checkers kind of guy. He rolled pretty bad on stats too.

[Remuko]

I mean viable in the way the the guy playing the paladin is not the most thoughtful gamer. Not a chess player more of a checkers kind of guy. He rolled pretty bad on stats too.

Paladin is pretty MAD so if he rolled bad its not the best class.

[Royce]

Well the guy is stuck on Ravenloft = must play Paladin. I’m just wondering if my wizard can pick up the slack.

[Draken]

It is a weak class and cleric would do pretty much everything better other than being passively immune to disease.

It does depend on what your DM's own style is like, of course. If you wind up charging goblins upfront, it is fine and workable but then again, almost everything is.

[Eldariel]

It's a full BAB class with martial weapon proficiencies so it's fine for the first levels with decent strength. It also provides you with healing from level 1, which is pretty key early on.

However, a Cleric would indeed be basically the same class but stronger, particularly with worse stats. Paladin really wants high Str, Con, Cha and some Wis but preferably no penalties in Int or Dex either. Without those, they kinda suffer.

[Nifft]

If the character had GREAT stats, then I'd suggest Paladin 1 / Monk 1 / Sorcerer ++

But with poor stats... the Paladin class is not a good fit.

Cleric is much more forgiving.

(Druid's good too.)

[Ashtagon]

Well the guy is stuck on Ravenloft = must play Paladin. I’m just wondering if my wizard can pick up the slack.

If the DM is playing with the S&S 3pp Ravenloft books, then paladin is the last class anyone should want to play. The (mandatory) rules for modifying PC classes in those setting books hoses the paladin harder than other classes.

[Fizban]

Even without rules, from what I understand the whole point of Ravenloft is "ultra-grimdark lose-lose situations forever," so playing a character that's all about not accepting grimdark realities means you're playing directly against the setting. Not likely to work out well.

[Royce]

Well this guy won’t be able to play a cleric, too many options with spells. He is a “checkers not chess player”. I believe his stats are something like str 17 dex 15 con 14 int 8 wis 12 cha 13. He took dodge and mobility for feats.
So I know he is going to be mediocre at best. I just want to know if my wizard will be able to cover the slack with his build.
My DM is heavy on role play and a very good DM overall. This is going to be the S&S Ravenloft, my DM has been itching to run this for years.

[Eldariel]

Those are not mediocre stats, they're actually pretty great. Though I would definitely recommend that he switch Cha and Dex since Paladin Charisma synergies are awesome and immediate in 3.0. Middle-Aged would work well; 16 Str, 16 Cha.

Dodge and Mobility are pretty useless compared to e.g. Mounted Combat feats, Weapon Focus, Improved Initiative, Combat Reflexes or whatever but he can of course do as he pleases. As long as he's waving a big stick (preferably a polearm like Guisarme or Glaive with a backup Sword) at the enemies and hopefully riding a bought mount before he gets his innate one, he's a huge block of HP and damage in front of you.

Provided DM avoids Rogue-stuff and you don't bite bigger encounters than you can chew, you should be just fine. Just remember to ratio your spells and use the big impact ones like Color Spray or Sleep only when needed (if you can hit multiple enemies, all the better).

[emeraldstreak]

Paladin would be OK if the 3.0 DMG has the alternative paladin mount table (can't remember if it did).

Also, be careful with Ravenloft. It's often more about horror than heroism, and some monsters are seriously buffed.

[ShurikVch]

Actually, 3.0 may be even slightly better than 3.5: duration of several [divine] feats in Defenders of the Faith wasn't cut down to "1 turn", and lasted "Charisma bonus" rounds
(Especially, considering the fact Haste 3.0 allowed to use them in the same round as attack, or 2/turn)
Also, Divine Might + Divine Shield + Divine Vengeance + Improved Shield Bash + Shield Charge = (Cha mod.)+(Cha mod.)+(2d6 vs. Undead)x2 damage with a Shield attack on charge + Bull Rush effect

Serenity feat is originally from Dragon #306 (3.0); reducing MAD by switching Cha-dependence to Wis


Middle-Aged would work well; 16 Str, 16 Cha.:smallconfused:
I believe his stats are something like str 17 dex 15 con 14 int 8 wis 12 cha 13."Middle-Aged" would be "str 16 dex 14 con 13 int 9 wis 13 cha 14"
Do you mean - "Venerable": "str 11 dex 9 con 8 int 11 wis 15 cha 16"?

[Eldariel]

:smallconfused:"Middle-Aged" would be "str 16 dex 14 con 13 int 9 wis 13 cha 14"
Do you mean - "Venerable": "str 11 dex 9 con 8 int 11 wis 15 cha 16"?

I meant assuming he still has the option of flipping his Dex and Cha (sounds like character creation is still in process).

[Ashtagon]

Paladin would be OK if the 3.0 DMG has the alternative paladin mount table (can't remember if it did).

Also, be careful with Ravenloft. It's often more about horror than heroism, and some monsters are seriously buffed.

It's the "your mount will certainly be lawful, but at the DM's discretion may be neutral or even evil" bit that really does the most to hose paladins.