So, Melee druids, can they work now?

[Rfkannen]

So druids have always had some cool spells for melee characters, but never really enough features to really support a melee focused druid character. Xanathar's has added a lot of druid spells that work for a melee character, so I was wondering if you guys think that a melee druid build could work now, and if so how would you do it?

Want to clarify I don't mean wild shape. I mean using spells like zephyr strike, Shillelagh, primeval guardian, and things like that in combo with a melee weapon.

[Easy_Lee]

So druids have always had some cool spells for melee characters, but never really enough features to really support a melee focused druid character. Xanathar's has added a lot of druid spells that work for a melee character, so I was wondering if you guys think that a melee druid build could work now, and if so how would you do it?

Want to clarify I don't mean wild shape. I mean using spells like zephyr strike, shilaylay, primeval guardian, and things like that in combo with a melee weapon.

I wouldn't want to be in melee with that hit die, but druid / ranger might work.

[Deathtongue]

The Melee Druid suffers from two things:

1.) The 'melee' options really suffer, especially in the mid-levels. You have (as a Moon Druid) a very strong wildshape option and eventually Shapechange (which pretty much snaps the game in half), but they won't carry you through the workday and keep getting worse and worse. Of course, your magical item selection will very much impact just how much you can do full-time melee druid, but the 'base' assumptions of the game have you being worse and worse, with occasional breakpoints where you suddenly get much better before continuing the downward treadmill.

2.) They have better things to be doing, especially in the mid-levels. Wrath of Nature, Transmute Rock, Conjure Elemental/Fey, and Whirlwind are so strong that you need to have a good argument as to why you are NOT doing those things. And the melee options just don't stack up.

[Willie the Duck]

Druids have the same problem making a melee build as clerics, but also have trouble getting the high AC needed for melee. I see the new spells allowing a very specific melee build, not unlike the arcana cleric/shillelagh/booming blade/spirit guardians/thorn whip/spiritual weapon/tons of feats bunny trail. Even that build, which I feel is better than what these new druids can pull off (mind you I've had all of ~20 minutes with the book so far), I tend to think of it as "congrats, you just spent all that effort to fill a role a straight paladin does better."

[Breashios]

For most of the campaign I just ran - 3rd level to 15th, the party had two wizards, a sorcerer, an arcane trickster and a moon druid. You betcha, that Druid and one of the wizards often ran to the front line.

While the rogue did much more melee damage on average throughout, the druid was fine with his Shillelagh and could take the damage. I think in 5e the HD matter much less than in previous versions and I don't remember him going down (ever) - maybe he might of, but I don't think so. The sorcerer and the mages a couple of times and even the rogue did go down once.

[SharkForce]

Druids have the same problem making a melee build as clerics, but also have trouble getting the high AC needed for melee. I see the new spells allowing a very specific melee build, not unlike the arcana cleric/shillelagh/booming blade/spirit guardians/thorn whip/spiritual weapon/tons of feats bunny trail. Even that build, which I feel is better than what these new druids can pull off (mind you I've had all of ~20 minutes with the book so far), I tend to think of it as "congrats, you just spent all that effort to fill a role a straight paladin does better."

shouldn't be that hard to get respectable AC. a heavy weapon fighter will have AC 18, it isn't even hard for a druid to get 17 AC if they use a shield, and nobody says a heavy weapon fighter needs to avoid the front lines. i can't imagine that's purely because of their awe-inspiring 1 extra hit point per level on average.

now, in terms of offensive power... yeah, you're never really going to be amazing. you can use magic initiate to grab booming blade and greenflame blade to combine with shillelagh in place of normal cantrips (that is, in situations where you either have already spent the necessary resources or do not consider the fight worth spending resources, and thus it is time to spam cantrips), and if you also grab warcaster (which you probably semi-wanted in the first place) you'll have a fairly hefty opportunity attack, but as far as that being the primary contribution you make, not so much.

you're a full caster. if you're ever also doing what the fighter does just as well as the fighter does, that's a problem with the game, and it needs to be fixed.

[rbstr]

I guess if I wanted to actually melee as a druid I'd go with Primal Savagery rather than Shillelagh. Unless you're picking up a weapon cantrip?

Lack of scaling on Shillelagh really hurts it later on.

[Willie the Duck]

Lack of scaling on Shillelagh really hurts it later on.

unless you are picking up the SCAG cantrips, which means you aren't picking up warcaster and ASIs, and if you want an AC over 16, you are maxing DEX, in which case what's the point you don't need to use your wisdom as a combat stat and and and...

That's why I call cleric and druid combat builds bunny trails. You just keep chasing after that goal of turning a full caster into a combat monster and unlike 3e it just never quite gets there but you've sunk everything you can into trying to. And, as Sharkforce points out, it is a good thing that you gon't ever get there, or else the system would be truly problematic.

[Deathtongue]

I think it is possible to make a good high-level melee cleric, especially one with access to magical items. At the far end of 'Theoretical OP", Arcana Cleric with Contingency/Tenser's Transformation, Simulacrum, Glyph of Warding, Wish, Holy Aura, Spirit Guardians, and Spiritual Weapon will have a DPR that makes even the most OP Eldritch Knights and Assassins welcome them into the Cool Kids' Club. They can have a very respectable AC and great DPR spells.

I don't feel the same way about Druids. Shapechange really helps them keep up, but that's their only shot and then that's it. Unless they have 2 or more 9th level spell gems, their melee rapidly falls off after that. A Moon Druid's best trick by far is Elemental Wildshape and besides Shapechange they get no other melee upgrades past level 10. This is aside from the fact that druids struggle to get an AC past 19 even with magical item access, and we're talking more like 16 if they don't have it. Clerics have a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, druids don't.