Building a character around Shadow Blade.

[Dudewithknives]

Ok, so the new Shadow Blade spell is crazy powerful.
It is obvious they did not forsee people taking it on an Eldritch Knight.

For those who have not seen it yet.

it is a 2nd level spell for Wizards, Warlocks, and Sorcerers that gives you the following:

Bonus action casting time.
Concentration up to 1 min.
A Light, Thrown, Finesse weapon that does 2D8 Psychic damage.
Advantage if used in dim light or darkness.

Some options to use this spell.

1. Blade Singer Wizard:
Gets second attack for free, or could take Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade if needed.
Full caster so gets the spell by level 3.
Has many built in class buffs already.
Has enough spell slots to burn that past
Dex is tied for their main stat, so not 100% SAD but it is no more a strain than they already would have been using.
Again competes with haste and other concentration effects.


2. Eldritch Knight:
Gets Many attacks, and use of action surge.
Good armor and hit points from he beginning.
Could easily just be dex based anyway and does not really need to boost INT.
Unfortunately, can not cast the spell till level 7, and competes with things like Haste.

3. Sorcerer of some kind:
Twin spell on this could get you 2 of them, one for each hand.
However, no sorcerer gets a second attack.
It is good on a sorcerer but not tremendous.

4. Hexblade/Pact of the Blade Warlock:
2 attacks from PoB
Ok HP and AC
Various Invocations that could help.
However, if you use this, then you are not using your pact weapon, unless you are dual wielding. Also, you can not bond with it as far as I know so no Cha to hit and damage.
VERY low spell slots to use from.

5. Arcane Trickster Rogue:
All the normal rogue goodies.
Has perfect stats for a rogue weapon.
However, does not get it til level 7, and has few spell slots.
Also, Rogues only get 1 attack a turn normally so it is not as useful as it would be to some others.
Could dual wield it with another light weapon, throwing it would get stat to damage anyway, but kind of seems a waster of a spell slot for that.


So, build a character around the spell or just use other concentration effects?

[stoutstien]

Concentration definitely put this in a niche category. I personally like the flavor of it. It looks good for eldrick nights until you realize it's not their bonded weapon. So all in all it's just flame sword with a less resistant damage type.

[Throne12]

A dex based war wizard cast mage armor AC 18. The use your war wizard ability to get a +2 to AC. Bumping it up to AC 20 then use your action to attack with green flame blade or booming blade.


Or go war wizard with few levels of cleric. Cast Spiritual weapon and shadow blade and use BB or GFB. Use spells like mirror image, blink, shield if war wizard shield won't cut it.

[Dudewithknives]

A dex based war wizard cast mage armor AC 18. The use your war wizard ability to get a +2 to AC. Bumping it up to AC 20 then use your action to attack with green flame blade or booming blade.


Or go war wizard with few levels of cleric. Cast Spiritual weapon and shadow blade and use BB or GFB. Use spells like mirror image, blink, shield if war wizard shield won't cut it.

While I love BB/GFB with a weapon that is that good I am not sure it is worth losing the second attack.

[Throne12]

While I love BB/GFB with a weapon that is that good I am not sure it is worth losing the second attack.

I'm using the war wizard and using its +2 to AC or +4 to save force you to only using a standed action or casting a cantrip so and your only getting one attack unless you MC with extra attack.

You could go valor bard and get 2 attacks and Spiritual weapon attack but that's not tell 10th level.

My biggest problem with this spell is it Duration isn't only 1min.

[Easy_Lee]

I suspect the spell will be pretty good on college of swords bards.

[Dudewithknives]

I suspect the spell will be pretty good on college of swords bards.

Yeah, sadly would have to either MC to 3 for it or wait til level 10 to magic secret it.

[Spiritchaser]

I’d go sorcerer, and get two attacks by quickening green flame blade.

With the high shadowblade base damage, plus fire, plus maybe a draconic +cha to fire, times two attacks, should work well enough.

[Finieous]

I don't have the book, but I don't see what's so crazy powerful about it. Is it an additional bonus-action attack, like spiritual weapon?

[RickAllison]

I don't have the book, but I don't see what's so crazy powerful about it. Is it an additional bonus-action attack, like spiritual weapon?

It is actually just a weapon. This is what differentiates it from Flame Blade, that it is a scaling spell that synergies with anything that boosts Attacks. For example, a level 20 EK with the spell can use it with all four attacks, and the fact that it is a weapon means that a rogue can use it for Sneak Attack. It is not that Shadow Blade is crazy powerful, but that people get excited because you can actually combine it with other features!

[Finieous]

It is actually just a weapon. This is what differentiates it from Flame Blade, that it is a scaling spell that synergies with anything that boosts Attacks. For example, a level 20 EK with the spell can use it with all four attacks, and the fact that it is a weapon means that a rogue can use it for Sneak Attack. It is not that Shadow Blade is crazy powerful, but that people get excited because you can actually combine it with other features!

Eh. That's pretty bad then. No EK 20 would ever use it, except maybe in a no magic item game. It's basically a rapier with the thrown property that does +1d8 damage at the cost of a spell slot and concentration (and spell known, for EKs and ATs). It actually sounds kinda terrible IMO.

ETA: Can it be upcast? Still doesn't seem like a great choice, but if it has a really aggressive upcasting progression, I could maybe see it at higher levels.

[Arcangel4774]

Is it conpatible with twinned spell, making 2 shadow blades for twf

[DracoKnight]

It is obvious they did not forsee people taking it on an Eldritch Knight.

According to Jeremy Crawford it was designed with the Eldritch Knight in mind.

[SharkForce]

Eh. That's pretty bad then. No EK 20 would ever use it, except maybe in a no magic item game. It's basically a rapier with the thrown property that does +1d8 damage at the cost of a spell slot and concentration (and spell known, for EKs and ATs). It actually sounds kinda terrible IMO.

ETA: Can it be upcast? Still doesn't seem like a great choice, but if it has a really aggressive upcasting progression, I could maybe see it at higher levels.

advantage in dim light and darkness sounds pretty good to me...

[DracoKnight]

Eh. That's pretty bad then. No EK 20 would ever use it, except maybe in a no magic item game. It's basically a rapier with the thrown property that does +1d8 damage at the cost of a spell slot and concentration (and spell known, for EKs and ATs). It actually sounds kinda terrible IMO.

ETA: Can it be upcast? Still doesn't seem like a great choice, but if it has a really aggressive upcasting progression, I could maybe see it at higher levels.

+1d8 out of a 3-4th level spell, 5-6th level, and 7th level spell slot. For a grand total of 5d8 per swing. EK caps out at 3d8 per swing, but a Sorc Twinning Booming Blade can hit the cap. A Bladesinger can also hit 5d8, and they'll be adding both DEX and INT.

[RickAllison]

Is it conpatible with twinned spell, making 2 shadow blades for twf

Nope. It targets self, and so can't be Twinned. Of course, I'm guessing many DMs would be okay with ruling it that way.

[Finieous]

advantage in dim light and darkness sounds pretty good to me...

Is it illusion or evocation? If it's illusion, it might be worth taking for AT as a backup during owl downtime. If it's evocation, it might be okay for Dex EK. On an EK, though, I'd mostly want advantage for GWM. Either way, I don't think it's the best choice for your concentration in most cases.


+1d8 out of a 3-4th level spell, 5-6th level, and 7th level spell slot. For a grand total of 5d8 per swing. EK caps out at 3d8 per swing, but a Sorc Twinning Booming Blade can hit the cap. A Bladesinger can also hit 5d8, and they'll be adding both DEX and INT.

Yeah, not a great progression.

It's a cool spell...I just think the concentration requirement makes it a bit weak.

[Submortimer]

Eh. That's pretty bad then. No EK 20 would ever use it, except maybe in a no magic item game. It's basically a rapier with the thrown property that does +1d8 damage at the cost of a spell slot and concentration (and spell known, for EKs and ATs). It actually sounds kinda terrible IMO.

ETA: Can it be upcast? Still doesn't seem like a great choice, but if it has a really aggressive upcasting progression, I could maybe see it at higher levels.

It totally can be upcast. EK can get it up to 3d8 per hit. Since it's one-handed, you can use it with a shield and Dueling.

4 attacks, 3d8+7 per hit for 12d8+28 (82) per round, while rocking an AC of at least 19. as well, you can get that with a 3rd or 4th level spell, so you can do that in most encounters.

[Finieous]

It totally can be upcast. EK can get it up to 3d8 per hit. Since it's one-handed, you can use it with a shield and Dueling.

4 attacks, 3d8+7 per hit for 12d8+28 (82) per round, while rocking an AC of at least 19. as well, you can get that with a 3rd or 4th level spell, so you can do that in most encounters.

Yeah, or you could cast haste and greater invisibility instead and hit them with your legendary greatsword and GWM at 20th level. Like I said, maybe in a no-magic-items/no feats game.

[DracoKnight]

Is it illusion or evocation? If it's illusion, it might be worth taking for AT as a backup during owl downtime. If it's evocation, it might be okay for Dex EK. On an EK, though, I'd mostly want advantage for GWM. Either way, I don't think it's the best choice for your concentration in most cases.



Yeah, not a great progression.

It's a cool spell...I just think the concentration requirement makes it a bit weak.

It's a terrific progression on an EK. Using this instead of GWM out of a 3rd-level spell slot (roughly) equates to hitting with all four of your attacks, and two of them being your GWM -5/+10 attacks with a greatsword. EKs also have CON save proficiency, heavy armor, and enough bonus ASIs to take Warcaster and Heavy Armor Master, so they're gonna be able to maintain the spell fairly easily.

[Finieous]

It's a terrific progression on an EK. Using this instead of GWM out of a 3rd-level spell slot (roughly) equates to hitting with all four of your attacks, and two of them being your GWM -5/+10 attacks with a greatsword. EKs also have CON save proficiency, heavy armor, and enough bonus ASIs to take Warcaster and Heavy Armor Master, so they're gonna be able to maintain the spell fairly easily.

So EK 20 using a 3rd-level slot and concentration gets a 3d8+7 attack, right? What kind of weapon does the GWM who is hasted or invisible have at 20th level?

[DracoKnight]

So EK 20 using a 3rd-level slot and concentration gets a 3d8+7 attack, right? What kind of weapon does the GWM who is hasted or invisible have at 20th level?

They're not guaranteed anything beyond the weapons table in the PHB. If they're lucky they could have a +2 greatsword.

[Submortimer]

Yeah, or you could cast haste and greater invisibility instead and hit them with your legendary greatsword and GWM at 20th level. Like I said, maybe in a no-magic-items/no feats game.

For one, no you can't: haste and greater invisibilty both require concentration.

For two, that's a 4th level and a 3rd level slot for one fight.

For three, that's TWO rounds of combat where you are doing nothing substantial but casting buffs.


The magic greatsword is a very good point, though.

Lets take two builds. For one, I'll assume a +3 greatsword and GWM feat. For the other, I'll assume +3 armor and Shield Master. Both have 20 strength.

GWM: 4 attacks, 8d6+12+20+40 (100 avg), +9 to hit. 18 AC.

Shadow Blade: 4 attacks +1 Shield bash, 12d8+8+20 (82 avg), +11 to hit, advantage if the shield bash succeds. 23 AC.

Seems like a pretty even trade off.

[Dudewithknives]

For one, no you can't: haste and greater invisibilty both require concentration.

For two, that's a 4th level and a 3rd level slot for one fight.

For three, that's TWO rounds of combat where you are doing nothing substantial but casting buffs.


The magic greatsword is a very good point, though.

Lets take two builds. For one, I'll assume a +3 greatsword and GWM feat. For the other, I'll assume +3 armor and Shield Master. Both have 20 strength.

GWM: 4 attacks, 8d6+12+20+40 (100 avg), +9 to hit. 18 AC.

Shadow Blade: 4 attacks +1 Shield bash, 12d8+8+20 (82 avg), +11 to hit, advantage if the shield bash succeds. 23 AC.

Seems like a pretty even trade off.

Also, it is light, can be thrown and gives advantage in dim and dark conditions, and is only a bonus action to cast in the first place.

Also because of the dice of the weapon it crits harder.

[Finieous]

They're not guaranteed anything beyond the weapons table in the PHB. If they're lucky they could have a +2 greatsword.

I know they're not guaranteed anything. My campaigns that have gone to high level have all featured magic items, but I understand perfectly well it isn't assumed. That's why I said it might be an okay choice in a game without magic items.

Doing the math on a +2 greatsword, it seems like a better option than haste when the GWM can't get advantage and the shadow blade is in dim light or darkness. Is it an in-school spell for the EK? If so, I revise my opinion to "pretty decent." :)

[Finieous]

For one, no you can't: haste and greater invisibilty both require concentration.

For two, that's a 4th level and a 3rd level slot for one fight.

For three, that's TWO rounds of combat where you are doing nothing substantial but casting buffs.


Dude, you were talking about using 3rd and 4th level slots to cast shadow blade in multiple combats. I was doing the same, only using those same slots for haste and greater invisibility instead. Obviously I can't cast both at the same time.



The magic greatsword is a very good point, though.

Lets take two builds. For one, I'll assume a +3 greatsword and GWM feat. For the other, I'll assume +3 armor and Shield Master. Both have 20 strength.

GWM: 4 attacks, 8d6+12+20+40 (100 avg), +9 to hit. 18 AC.

Shadow Blade: 4 attacks +1 Shield bash, 12d8+8+20 (82 avg), +11 to hit, advantage if the shield bash succeds. 23 AC.

Seems like a pretty even trade off.

Except the GWM is either going to be hasted (5 attacks) or invisible (advantage on all attacks, disadvantage on all attacks against him).

[DracoKnight]

Is it an in-school spell for the EK? If so, I revise my opinion to "pretty decent." :)

It’s an illusion spell, so you can grab it at 8th.

[Easy_Lee]

Crazy idea but, how about a Gloom Stalker 6 / Rogue 2 / Warlock X? Bonus action hide or dash, hide from creatures with darkvision as if they didn't have darkvision, Devil's Sight, has a fighting style and decent HP. Should be interesting.

[Mortis_Elrod]

Crazy idea but, how about a Gloom Stalker 6 / Rogue 2 / Warlock X? Bonus action hide or dash, hide from creatures with darkvision as if they didn't have darkvision, Devil's Sight, has a fighting style and decent HP. Should be interesting.

How did you know about my build!!!!

[Finieous]

It’s an illusion spell, so you can grab it at 8th.

Yeah, I'd never spend my out-of-school spell on that. I like it pretty well for ATs, though, even with concentration.

[Mortis_Elrod]

Yeah, I'd never spend my out-of-school spell on that. I like it pretty well for ATs, though, even with concentration.

idk know man, can you throw a greatsword? is it a cool damage type? is it also finesse? IS IT ALSO MADE FROM SHADOWS?

sure maybe pretty decent. But +7 coolness levels above greatsword, while being on par with the trade in for dpr/ac and such.

[Submortimer]

Dude, you were talking about using 3rd and 4th level slots to cast shadow blade in multiple combats. I was doing the same, only using those same slots for haste and greater invisibility instead. Obviously I can't cast both at the same time.


You're right, that's on me. The way you worded it ("or you could cast haste and greater invisibility instead") made me think you were trying to cast both together.


Except the GWM is either going to be hasted (5 attacks) or invisible (advantage on all attacks, disadvantage on all attacks against him).

I'm not disagreeing with you, but it's still less optimal if for no other reason than you are using your first action to cast haste or greater invisibility.

Example:

The same two EKs from before go at it. Same feats, items, and stats.

Round 1
EK1: Cast haste, Attack once for 2d6+18 damage (25). Total damage: 25
EK2: Cast Shadow Blade, Attack 4 times for 12d8+28 (82). Total Damage: 82

Round 2
EK1: Attack 5 times for 10d6+90 (125) Total Damage: 150
Ek2: Attack 4 times for 12d8+28 (82) Total Damage: 164

Round 3
EK1: Attack 5 times for 10d6+90 (125) Total Damage: 275
Ek2: Attack 4 times for 12d8+28 (82) Total Damage: 246

It takes till round 3 for the GWM to overtake the Shadow Blade, and that's assuming a +3 Greatsword.

Without:

Round 1
EK1: Cast haste, Attack once for 2d6+15 damage (22). Total damage: 22
EK2: Cast Shadow Blade, Attack 4 times for 12d8+28 (82). Total Damage: 82

Round 2
EK1: Attack 5 times for 10d6+78 (113) Total Damage: 135
Ek2: Attack 4 times for 12d8+28 (82) Total Damage: 164

Round 3
EK1: Attack 5 times for 10d6+78 (113) Total Damage: 248
Ek2: Attack 4 times for 12d8+28 (82) Total Damage: 246

And that's assuming he can hit with a -5 to the attack roll.

The Greater Invisibility is even worse, since the majority of the damage you are getting from your greatsword is static damage, not dice. By contrast, Shadow Blade with a shield has an easy way to get advantage with his shield Bash, and is hitting for 8d6 on a crit.

[Finieous]

You're right, that's on me. The way you worded it ("or you could cast haste and greater invisibility instead") made me think you were trying to cast both together.


Yeah, I can see how my wording was unclear.



I'm not disagreeing with you, but it's still less optimal if for no other reason than you are using your first action to cast haste or greater invisibility.



I think the shadow blade can actually do slightly better damage with hit chance applied and in dim light or darkness, but apart from the damage, haste/greater invisibility also offer mobility/defensive buffs. They can also be cast on others. I just can't see using an out-of-school spell selection on this being the best choice for an EK. You only get three after 3rd level. Any other new spells for EKs in the book?

[Submortimer]

I think the shadow blade can actually do slightly better damage with hit chance applied and in dim light or darkness, but apart from the damage, haste/greater invisibility also offer mobility/defensive buffs. They can also be cast on others. I just can't see using an out-of-school spell selection on this being the best choice for an EK. You only get three after 3rd level. Any other new spells for EKs in the book?

The insane bit is focusing Dex, and then taking Elven Accuracy. But yeah, if you can get a magic greatsword, thats a better option.

As for proper EK spells...not really? Toll the dead is pretty nice, since it scales on a d12 and meshes decently with war magic, and Warding Wind is a pretty decent for avoiding ranged attacks, but the only spell that really feels like it SHOULD be an EK spell (Steel Wind Strike) is 5th level.

[DracoKnight]

The insane bit is focusing Dex, and then taking Elven Accuracy. But yeah, if you can get a magic greatsword, thats a better option.

As for proper EK spells...not really? Toll the dead is pretty nice, since it scales on a d12 and meshes decently with war magic, and Warding Wind is a pretty decent for avoiding ranged attacks, but the only spell that really feels like it SHOULD be an EK spell (Steel Wind Strike) is 5th level.

Thunder Step is awesome for an EK.

[Dudewithknives]

Thunder Step is awesome for an EK.

Yeah, I have been building a Kobold EK, but I was making him an archer, this would be my backup spell for when they get on me.

Kobold with Urd Wings and XBE, with this as backup, some kind of nice.

[Throne12]

I know they're not guaranteed anything. My campaigns that have gone to high level have all featured magic items, but I understand perfectly well it isn't assumed. That's why I said it might be an okay choice in a game without magic items.

Doing the math on a +2 greatsword, it seems like a better option than haste when the GWM can't get advantage and the shadow blade is in dim light or darkness. Is it an in-school spell for the EK? If so, I revise my opinion to "pretty decent." :)

But you can't put magic items or feats in the equation. Because not every allows feats and not every gives out magic items. That my game for example I don't give magic items with +x to them. Also. It's a one handed weapon why are you comparing it to a greatsword.

[tsotate]

But you can't put magic items or feats in the equation. Because not every allows feats and not every gives out magic items.
Are there really tables out there that don't allow feats, but DO allow Xanathar's?

[Throne12]

Are there really tables out there that don't allow feats, but DO allow Xanathar's?

Yes yes there are.

[Finieous]

But you can't put magic items or feats in the equation. Because not every allows feats and not every gives out magic items. That my game for example I don't give magic items with +x to them. Also. It's a one handed weapon why are you comparing it to a greatsword.

That's why I said waaaaaaaaay up there in my first post that it would be better in a no magic item/no feats game. Wonder why people keep bringing it up.

I compared shadow blade to a greatsword because if I want an EK to do damage, he's using a greatsword (or polearm, but I felt like the GMW + PAM comparison would be unfair).

[SharkForce]

That's why I said waaaaaaaaay up there in my first post that it would be better in a no magic item/no feats game. Wonder why people keep bringing it up.

I compared shadow blade to a greatsword because if I want an EK to do damage, he's using a greatsword (or polearm, but I felt like the GMW + PAM comparison would be unfair).

then you should at least acknowledge the +2 AC the shadowblade is allowing over the greatsword.

[Finieous]

then you should at least acknowledge the +2 AC the shadowblade is allowing over the greatsword.

Sure, your EK can use a shield with a one-handed weapon, shadow blade or otherwise. In those higher-level slots we were talking about, haste and greater invisibility will both provide superior defense to shadow blade and shield. For that matter, so does blur or mirror image for the 2nd-level out-of-school slot, though at an action cost.

I'm really not sure what all the argument is about. It's an option for an EK. It's one I wouldn't take, but others would. Options are good. I certainly don't agree with the OP that it's "crazy powerful" and maintain it's a much easier choice to make for an AT as an in-school spell. On the downside, it's not going to be that much of a force multiplier for a rogue without extra attacks. I'd probably still prefer haste for off-turn sneak attacks at those higher levels, but since it's an illusion, it's much easier for the AT to have both.

All IMO, of course.

[X3r4ph]

advantage in dim light and darkness sounds pretty good to me...

https://i.imgflip.com/1z8f8q.jpg

[Ganymede]

I don't think anyone pointed it out, but a Pact of the Blade Warlock is only able to make two attacks with the pact weapon itself.

In the OP, it said this Warlock would be able to get two attacks with the Shadow Blade, which isn't the case.

(I still plan on off-handing the Shadow Blade while I make two attacks with my pact weapon, tho.)

[skaddix]

https://i.imgflip.com/1z8f8q.jpg

Yes the Warlock does seem to have ways to brutally exploit Elven Accuracy...I am looking at Shadow of Moil guaranteed Advantage.

[PeteNutButter]

Four words: Ring of Spell Storing

At level 9 you cast a 5th version into the ring and hand it to the guy that can make 2-4 attacks a round, such as a martial that dipped 1 level in war cleric.

It obviously would take time to attune back and forth, but could totally be used for one big fight a day. Just do the attunment shenanigans in the morning.

If that hunter/war cleric triggers horde breaker he is looking at 4d8+7 times 4. That’s 100 average damage. To quote Tenacious D, “That’s f*cking teamwork!”

[Throne12]

Four words: Ring of Spell Storing

At level 9 you cast a 5th version into the ring and hand it to the guy that can make 2-4 attacks a round, such as a martial that dipped 1 level in war cleric.

It obviously would take time to attune back and forth, but could totally be used for one big fight a day. Just do the attunment shenanigans in the morning.

If that hunter/war cleric triggers horde breaker he is looking at 4d8+7 times 4. That’s 100 average damage. To quote Tenacious D, “That’s f*cking teamwork!”

You don't need to be attuned to the ring of spell storing anyone can cast a spell into it.


Ring of Spell Storing

Ring, rare (requires attunement)

This ring stores spells cast into it, holding them until the attuned wearer uses them. The ring can store up to 5 levels worth of spells at a time. When found, it contains 1d6 − 1 levels of stored spells chosen by the GM.

Any creature can cast a spell of 1st through 5th level into the ring by touching the ring as the spell is cast. The spell has no effect, other than to be stored in the ring. If the ring can’t hold the spell, the spell is expended without effect. The level of the slot used to cast the spell determines how much space it uses.

While wearing this ring, you can cast any spell stored in it. The spell uses the slot level, spell save DC, spell attack bonus, and spellcasting ability of the original caster, but is otherwise treated as if you cast the spell. The spell cast from the ring is no longer stored in it, freeing up space.

[PeteNutButter]

You don't need to be attuned to the ring of spell storing anyone can cast a spell into it.


Ring of Spell Storing

Ring, rare (requires attunement)

This ring stores spells cast into it, holding them until the attuned wearer uses them. The ring can store up to 5 levels worth of spells at a time. When found, it contains 1d6 − 1 levels of stored spells chosen by the GM.

Any creature can cast a spell of 1st through 5th level into the ring by touching the ring as the spell is cast. The spell has no effect, other than to be stored in the ring. If the ring can’t hold the spell, the spell is expended without effect. The level of the slot used to cast the spell determines how much space it uses.

While wearing this ring, you can cast any spell stored in it. The spell uses the slot level, spell save DC, spell attack bonus, and spellcasting ability of the original caster, but is otherwise treated as if you cast the spell. The spell cast from the ring is no longer stored in it, freeing up space.

So even better. Thanks, I’m AFB.

[Sudsboy]

I've been thinking about this since XGtE released, and here's the character I've come up with to abuse Shadow Blade.

The spell itself isn't enough to build around, IMO. It needs support from class features, other spells, etc. For that reason I've decided on Conquest Paladin 6, Divine Soul Sorcerer X. This gives me more spell slots of a higher level to cast Shadow Blade with (I'll be upcasting it as 3rd level the moment I get it). The build also allows for three attacks, including one quickened melee cantrip.

This gives a character who produces great DPR, plus pretty insane burst via smite + upcast Shadow Blade. With Shield and upcast Armor of Agathys, you have crazy defenses. Going DEX on a half-elf enables Elven Accuracy, and is only 1 less AC that full plate & shield. There are lots of spell slots for both smite and upcast AoA + heals. I prefer Divine Soul for access to the Cleric list, which has more options for non-concentration spells than Dragon Sorc, though bonus to fire and +1 HP per level are worth considering, particularly on a point buy character.

Going DEX means you don't need heavy armor proficiency, so take your first level in Sorc for the CON saves. Then I go five levels of Conquest Paladin, and two more Sorc for a character that fully comes online at level 8. At 9th I take my last Paladin level, giving me +CHA to all saves, and then Sorc the rest of the way. At 9th level, you'll have the spell slots of a 6th level pure caster. Since you have your concentration spoken for at all times, you can burn those slots on sorc points, smite, utility spells, or quickened spells that don't require concentration. Personally, I'll be saving most for smite and Shield spells.

The thing I like best about this character is how many options there are with metamagic and two full spell lists to choose from. Lots of buttons to push on this character, as my group likes to say. The downside is MAD, obviously. This character is best with great rolled stats, though it can operate with standard point buy or stat array.

In summary, this character produces round to round damage at level 20 that is superior to Eldritch Knight with Shadow Blade, and it produces vastly superior DPR in the earlier tiers of play. Those numbers are before you count in Armor of Agathys or the smite feature. If someone has a higher DPR Shadow Blade idea, I'd love to hear it.

[Lolzyking]

Also fun forgotten fact, you can use it as the weapon for bb or gfb

[wilhelmdubdub]

advantage in dim light and darkness sounds pretty good to me...

hello elven accuracy

[Jerrykhor]

Shadow blade can't be Twinned.

[danpit2991]

im planning on using this spell on a half orc champion warlock i am playing have not yet picked a pact i am leaning to tome for some utility but blade might be fun dual wield shadow blade and pact weapon in off hand for the bonus attack and hope to crit with the shadow

[RSP]

It works well on AT, is great for a Sword Bard (though waiting until 10 requires patience), and I think it could be interesting on a melee-first bladesinger (I know it's not popular to actually have them in melee).

Sword Bard, in particular, benefits as they're the best combo of 1) many spell slots for regular casting, 2) higher slots for upcasting, 3) good enough melee abilities to regularly choose attacking with a sword over casting with flourishes. Only downside is 4) need to keep Concentration, and no built in buff to do so. Mobile would help with this, though it's a MAD build.

Bladesinger falls into categories 1 and 2, but less so with 3, though their Conc bonus helps with 4. If you want to dedicate yourself to melee, this would be the best way to use Shadow Blade, in my opinion.

AT is lacking 1 and 2, but is great with 3, and Cunning Action helps with getting away and not getting hit.

EK, same as AT, though they'll be getting hit more. Prof in Conc helps, but eventually that'll catch up.

[Calminiaon]

For any combination of Sorcerer and Paladin, this spell becomes incredibly powerful, if not broken.

My build calls for PLD 12/SRC 8, which makes him a 13th level multi-caster. (I'm currently at 10/3.) Once fully realized at 20, it makes for ungodly damage. Cast at 7th level (5d8), combined with quickened draconic fire ancestry Green Flame Blade(3d8+5), Improved Divine Smite(1d8), not to mention three 4th (5d8), three 3rd(4d8), and three 2nd (3d8) level Divine Smites.

That works out to an average of 11d8+6.66 (56.166 average) per attack for the first 9 hits, with three attacks a round (minus one attack in the first round, followed by up to 4 rounds of quickened GFB). With four 1st, two 5th, and a 6th level slot left over, if whatever it is survives 505.5 average damage. The 1st level slots are reserved for shield or absorb elements as required. The higher slots could be converted to more lower level slots via sorcery points if need be, or dumped into aid/false life for more hours.

As far as concentration goes, heavy armour with a shield, plus the shield spell means I'm unlikely to get hit. When I do get hit, warcaster generally maintains concentration. Even if it doesn't, I can recast SB each round at 5th or 6th level. I'd still be doing 9d8+10 per hit (for the first 9 hits) with two attacks a round, without GFB and with SB cast at 5th.

Of course, more Sorcerer, less Paladin would add even more spell slots with which to smite, but that doesn't fit my character.

[Zene]

Wow, no offense meant, but people sure like to have this conversation over and over again.

Like with the exact same points, arguments, and theorycrafting.

(TLDR this thread: EK does well with it up to 11; then EK 11-12 / Full Caster 8-9 does extremely well with it. Most participants in the convos theorycraft and agree. Some grudgingly agree. Some never concede the point).

Google search “shadow blade reddit” and you’ll find a several threads on it that all pretty much cover the same territory.

I know there’s at least one thread on this board —maybe more—where it’s been discussed in-depth.

I’m guessing ENworld has a thread or two as well.

[Driftw00d]

Wow, no offense meant, but people sure like to have this conversation over and over again.

Like with the exact same points, arguments, and theorycrafting.

(TLDR this thread: EK does well with it up to 11; then EK 11-12 / Full Caster 8-9 does extremely well with it. Most participants in the convos theorycraft and agree. Some grudgingly agree. Some never concede the point).

Google search “shadow blade reddit” and you’ll find a several threads on it that all pretty much cover the same territory.

I know there’s at least one thread on this board —maybe more—where it’s been discussed in-depth.

I’m guessing ENworld has a thread or two as well.
What he said. Any class with multiple attacks multiclassed with any primary caster can make great use.
Ek12/any primary caster8
Hunter/Horizon Walker 12/any primary caster8
Monk8/Primary caster 12 as a simple finesse weapon it IS a monk weapon.
Paladin/Sorc or Bard (I'm not really convinced about this one too many things competing for spell slots)

[Calminiaon]

So, taking a closer look at the numbers Shadow Blade is definitely more powerful at lower levels than a +1 sword. At PLD11/SRC5 with twin spell haste (on another melee, if they exist) it evens out quickly.

Round 1
Quickened GFB, Twinned Haste, 2nd Melee
4d8+5 +2d8+5 (37 avg)
+1 smite
Shadow Blade cast at 5th as a bonus
(5d8+4)*2 (49 avg)
+2 smites

Round 2
Hasted and Second Melees Hasted Attack
Bonus Action:
Convert 5th level slot to sorcery points
(2d8+5)*3 +2d8+5 (56 avg)
+3 smites
Shadow Blade and quickened GFB
(5d8+4)*2 +7d8+5 (88.5 avg)
+3 smites

Third Round
Hasted, 2nd Melee, GFB
(2d8+5)*3, +2d8+5, +4d8+5 (74 avg)
+4 smites
Shadow Blade and Quickened GFB
(5d8+4*2) +7d8+5 (88.5 avg)
+3 smites

Round 4
Hasted, 2nd Melee, GFB
(2d8+5)*3, +2d8+5, +4d8+5 (74 avg)
+Remaining smites
Shadow Blade, convert for Sorcery points
(5d8+4)*2 (51 avg)
+Remaining smites

Round N (out of GFBs and smites)
Hasted, 2nd Melee
(2d8+5)*3, 2d8+5 (56 avg)
Shadow Blade
(5d8+4)*2 (51 avg)
________________________________

At 20th level, PLD12/SRC8
(assuming a +2 sword)

Round 1
Quickened GFB, Twinned Haste, 2nd Melee
5d8+7 +2d8+7 (35.5 avg)
+1 smite
Shadow Blade cast at 7th as a bonus
(6d8+5)*2 (55 avg)
+2 smites

Round 2
Hasted, 2nd Melee Hasted Attack, GFB
(2d8+7)*3, +2d8+7, +5d8+12 (98.5 avg)
+4 smites
Shadow Blade and Quickened GFB
(6d8+5)*2 + 9d8+10 (114.5 avg)
+3 smites

Round 3
Hasted and 2nd Extra Attack
Bonus Action: Convert for sorcery points
(2d8+7)*3 +2d8+7 (64 avg)
+3 smites
Shadow Blade and Quickened GFB
(6d8+5)*2 +9d8+10 (114.5 avg)
+3 smites

Round 4
Hasted, 2nd Melee, GFB
(2d8+7)*3, +2d8+7, +5d8+12 (98.5 avg)
+1 smites
Shadow Blade and Quickened GFB
(6d8+5)*2 + 9d8+10 (114.5 avg)
+1 smites

Round 5
Hasted, 2nd Melee, GFB
(2d8+7)*3, +2d8+7, +5d8+12 (98.5 avg)
Shadow Blade, convert for Sorcery points
(6d8+5)*2 (64 avg)

Round N=<10 (no GFBs or smites)
Hasted, 2nd Melee
(2d8+7)*3, 2d8+7 (64 avg)
Shadow Blade
(6d8+5)*2 (64 avg)

Shadow Blade definitely gets out of the gate faster, and stays ahead by 15.5-16 points of damage when both are hitting with GFB. Plus, if something sneaks past your plate, shield, rings, cloaks, or shield spells your not lame for a turn, if warcaster can't keep up concentration.

However, Twinned Haste adds +2AC, advantage on Dex saves, and can be used with a magical weapon. The bonus to hit would easily counterbalances the extra damage.

Hasting with a magical greatsword for 2d6+1d8+(6/7) per hit, drops the difference to 5.5-6 points. It also adds to the probability of hitting and getting hit.

Additionally, any powerful magic weapons like the Holy Avenger, Flame Blade, Frost Brand, etc. would blow the Shadow Blade completely out of the water in the above calculation.

[strangebloke]

Single class builds:
Shadow Sorcerer? Shadow is thematic, but can't use darkness at that same time as shadow blade and you only get one attack. You can get multiple hits in if you twin BB, but.... Usually not worth it. Draconic sorc is slightly better, but not much.

Hexblade? Can't use thirsting blade with shadow blade.

EK? Pretty great here. Shouldn't be compared against GWM builds, since shadow blade is clearly what you take if you're going S&B.

AT? Only one attack, but an extra 1d8 or three is always good. Very easy source of advantage.

Wizard? Not really familiar with the bladesinger but I guess it's good?

Valor/Swords bard? Pretty great, although you don't get it until level 10.

Multiclass builds:
Fighter 2, Bladelock X? Still not a pact weapon, bro.

Paladin 6, Sorcerer X? Not bad here. Lot's of good usage. Jives well with a DEX-based S&B build

Hexblade 3, Paladin X? Hahahaah this is great. Boosted crits and bonus die, baby. Multiple attacks a round.

Coffeelock? Shadow blade is an efficient spell. You don't care about that.

AT 6/ Gloomstalker X? Play a wood elf with elven accuracy and become the deadliest combatant in the dark. No idea if this is any good.

[arnin77]

I just picked up Shadow Blade for my Arcane Trickster at level 7. Cast it as a bonus action, procked my Elven Accuracy, cast booming blade and crit. 6d8+8d6+5 damage. I think I did 67 damage on the hit if I remember correctly. It was pretty nice but I was rolling for concentration a lot.

[Pirate ninja]

Please don't revive dead threads.