Major updates to Shapechange Handbook

[jmax]

I've made some significant improvements to my Shapechange Handbook, both adding new creatures (especially form non-Core sourcebooks) and in some new organizational changes. Check it out, and let me know if you have any specific requests for forms you'd like to see added.

3.5 Shapechange Handbook (https://docs.google.com/document/d/127el4KqlL2ALu1chZ9WLPGFOu1InVTJ2pmxAmYAARbE/edit?ts=59f7dabb#)

As notable examples, check out the new consolidated tables for Physical Defense (https://docs.google.com/document/d/127el4KqlL2ALu1chZ9WLPGFOu1InVTJ2pmxAmYAARbE/edit?ts=59f7dabb#bookmark=id.g5o1pwa2udv0), Magical Defense (https://docs.google.com/document/d/127el4KqlL2ALu1chZ9WLPGFOu1InVTJ2pmxAmYAARbE/edit?ts=59f7dabb#bookmark=id.r2mfwpnk407n), and High Ability Scores (https://docs.google.com/document/d/127el4KqlL2ALu1chZ9WLPGFOu1InVTJ2pmxAmYAARbE/edit?ts=59f7dabb#bookmark=id.6bqqcpz8b0sm):

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EDIT: Apologies for the large images in the original post - I forgot to zoom back out.

[Eldariel]

I was actually thinking we really need one of these. Hm, a couple of pointers for the generic chapter:
- I'd use a short bullet point list for all the big forms to consider in the beginning.
- I personally like Construct and Incorporeal Undead forms as all day ones since even if you get randomly assailed, they bestow you with basically every immunity known to elf meaning you're unlikely to be influenced. Incorporeals being able to reside inside objects in particular are pretty sweet; and there are even incorporeal swarms (at least Ephemeral Swarm [MMIII]) to make you even more impossible to affect. Less important on a persistomancer and outside Core but in Core it's one of the few ways to get blanket immunities to basically everything all day. Not for sitting in a tavern but for entering e.g. dungeons warded from extraplanar travel or ones you can't divine, doing research or in general doing your own thing. From Core, Iron Golem, Marut & Dread Wraith are very usable.
- One thing that can give you NI Charisma is the Polymorph/Awaken loop (turn into an Animal, Awaken yourself, rinse and repeat) but of course that's not really relevant in a normal game.
- Strength of the True Form [Dragons of Eberron Sorc 1] can be combined with Shapechanging into a utility form if you've Grand Theft Bodied someone (Magic Jar chain or True Mind Switch) or have natively high stats (you're a Dragon or something) - this allows you to pick both, great stats and great abilities. Best of all, it's level 1 so you can manually persist it without metamagic cheats making it fair game for most tables.
- You should go through the non-core Dragons. They offer greater flight speeds than the Core ones, some really impressive breath weapons (Disintegrate from Pyroclastic Dragon, negative levels from Shadow Dragon, etc.), etc. Mercury Dragon [Dragons of Faerun] gets 250' Good flight very early on (Young - Old are all 250' Good forms within Shapechange, Very Old is Huge within Reserves of Strength. Ancient hits 300' speed but is sadly too high). My mini Zombie Dragon Compendium (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?499642-Best-Dragon-to-Zombie-Dragon) covered Draconomicon and Core though at least Dragons of Faerun, Dragons of Eberron, Oriental Adventures and Dragon Magazine stuff is missing. And I focused on movement modes and breath weapons, leaving most Su abilities and such without note.
- You should add the sources for Reserves of Strength [Dragonlance Campaign Settings]. It's fairly obscure so most people not in the community will probably be unable to find it.

Thanks a lot for doing this! Very, very useful! I'll add stuff if I see any important categories or things you've missed.

[jmax]

I'd use a short bullet point list for all the big forms to consider in the beginning.
Good point - I tend to default to large blocks of text (obviously), but this would be easier to digest. It's something I need to remind myself frequently.


I personally like Construct and Incorporeal Undead forms as all day ones since even if you get randomly assailed, they bestow you with basically every immunity known to elf meaning you're unlikely to be influenced.
Also a great point. I'll add another section for dungeon-walking-around as opposed to tavern-walking-around. That also makes Shadesteel Golem handily beat out Will-o-wisp if you care more about immunities than AC.

In the game where I have shapechange, our characters have earned a number of functionally non-dispellable permanent spells (our choice, topping out at 6th-level adjusted for base duration - SL+3 for rounds/level, +2 for minutes/level, +1 for 10 minutes/level) as rewards from functional demigods, so I've taken care of most immunities with those, making this something I haven't had to consider, but it's absolutely valid for every other game. On that note, remind me to publish my "Immunity to Everything" spreadsheet, which goes through all of the possible negative conditions in layers to find the combination of spells most optimal to get maximum immunity.


and there are even incorporeal swarms (at least Ephemeral Swarm [MMIII]) to make you even more impossible to affect
Are swarms valid for shapechange? I wasn't sure they qualified as creatures. If so, I'll have to add them.


One thing that can give you NI Charisma is the Polymorph/Awaken loop (turn into an Animal, Awaken yourself, rinse and repeat) but of course that's not really relevant in a normal game.
I'll add it to the "Cheese" section.


Strength of the True Form [Dragons of Eberron Sorc 1] can be combined with Shapechanging into a utility form if you've Grand Theft Bodied someone (Magic Jar chain or True Mind Switch) or have natively high stats (you're a Dragon or something) - this allows you to pick both, great stats and great abilities. Best of all, it's level 1 so you can manually persist it without metamagic cheats making it fair game for most tables.
It's in there under "Cheese". Granted, I may be interpreting it slightly more literally than you are. As written, you check once and use the better scores of your original and current forms (at cast time) for the rest of the duration, which means you pick the form with the best physical ability scores to start and then keep those all day (even after shapechange ends). Magic jar is a somewhat less cheesy way to do it though - if you interpret "original" to mean the form you've snatched.


You should go through the non-core Dragons.
Will do. I haven't bothered so far because they're specifically off the table in my current game due to a setting-specific custom dragon list - I get to use chromatic/metallic dragons refluffed as non-intelligent "drakes", which is fine from a crunch perspective because their minds aren't relevant for shapechange anyway. I'm pretty sure the answer is no, but I'll ask specifically about the non-core ones. And I'll definitely check out your Zombie Dragon Compendium as a place to get started - thanks!


You should add the sources for Reserves of Strength [Dragonlance Campaign Settings]. It's fairly obscure so most people not in the community will probably be unable to find it.
Derp, good point. I'm seriously torn on whether to take it in my current game - there's an easy way to boost caster level without breaking caps, and I also have across-the-board +2 to caps from an inherent trait and a nifty magic item. That means only the 28-HD forms are really unlocked with it, and the only one I've covered so far that really interests me is Garngrath. But Garngrath really interests me. That it has Iron Will as a feat tax doesn't help.


Thanks a lot for doing this! Very, very useful! I'll add stuff if I see any important categories or things you've missed.
Praise from one of the masters! My pleasure :-)

I was just telling my wife last night that this is long enough to qualify as a dissertation and wondering when I get my PhD in Shapechange - you can be my thesis committee :-P

[Anthrowhale]

There are a few oddball classes that might be worth mentioning since they get earlier & more powerful access to shapechange.

A full BAB charisma focused class (paladin, hexblade, etc...) going into Divine Crusader (Complete Divine) gets access to Shapechange via an appropriate domain at ECL 16 with a Charisma focus.

A Sha'ir is a charisma focused full caster that gets access to Shapechange at ECL 17. An Urban Druid has access at the same level. Both are in Dragon Compendium and both can cast the divine spell to trigger Prayer Beads for caster level boost.

The Divine Crusader in particular has quite a bit of room to take advantage of X to Y (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?125732-3-x-X-stat-to-Y-bonus) via something like a Battle Dancer 1/Paladin 4/Fist of Raziel 1/Witch Hunter 1/Divine Crusader 9 for charisma to AC, saves (twice), and occasionally to-hit via smite.

Edit: Oh, and Shapechange[Tome Dragon] (dragon magazine 343?) is extremely useful for metamagic reduction.

[jmax]

There are a few oddball classes that might be worth mentioning since they get earlier & more powerful access to shapechange.

Good point - and Sublime Chord is also worth mentioning now that I think about it. Later access than even sorcerer (ECL 19), but 5/8 BAB (vs. 1/2), Cha-based, and gets both bard and sor/wiz spells. Hadn't realized Urban Druid was based on Charisma. Looks like it doesn't have any of the nice druid animal buffs, though, and it lacks the great variety of sorcerer/wizard buffs, so I think Sha'ir is probably the better choice.

[Anthrowhale]

Some more details about supernatural metamagic.

The Tome Dragon (Dragon #343) has Free Metamagic(Su) which reduces metamagic costs on a spell by 1 (Very Young+ 6HD), 2 (Young Adult+ 15HD), or 3 (Old+ 24HD) levels.

In addition the Slaymate (Libris Mortis) has Pale Aura (Su) which reduces metamagic costs on a necromantic spell by 1.

Easy Metamagic (Dragon #325) provides another -1 metamagic cost reduction.

Incantatrix 10 provides another -1 to all metamagic costs.

Halruaan Elder 1 provides another -1 to one metamagic cost.

Given this, a Sha'ir 5/Incantatrix 10/Halruaan Elder 5 taking Obtain Familiar can cast shapechange and have the familiar shapechange into a Slaymate while they shapechange into a Tome Dragon. After activating prayer beads, they can cast a persistent spell as +0 metamagic or a extended persistent necromantic spell as +0 metamagic.

[jmax]

I'll make a note on the metamagic from the dragons and Slaymate. Unfortunately you technically can't stack Incantatrix metamagic with it because shapechange takes away your own supernatural abilities when not in your own form. I do think it's silly for that to apply to class features, but rules-as-written I don't think it works.

That said, I'll also have to see how the metamagic buy-down works. Can you prepare spells in that form and keep the prepared spells when you change? Or are you adding metamagic on the fly?

[Anthrowhale]

I'll make a note on the metamagic from the dragons and Slaymate. Unfortunately you technically can't stack Incantatrix metamagic with it because shapechange takes away your own supernatural abilities when not in your own form. I do think it's silly for that to apply to class features, but rules-as-written I don't think it works.

That said, I'll also have to see how the metamagic buy-down works. Can you prepare spells in that form and keep the prepared spells when you change? Or are you adding metamagic on the fly?
I see your point about the wording of Shapechange. This interpretation would really suck for Supernatural-based classes like Binders.

There is an argument against losing class-based supernatural abilities: You generally get to choose which order you apply things to a character to most advantageous effect. Hence, you could decide to apply class-based abilities after shapechange abilities, achieving the desired layering. (This argument would not work for race-based supernatural abilities since you are no longer of your starting race after applying shapechange.)

Free Metamagic is plausibly written with spontaneous casting in mind, but it doesn't seem to limit to spontaneous casting by RAW. The operative text is:

... tome dragons can subtract an amount based on their age category from the increase in spell level caused by using metamagic feats.
which seems clear enough in the case of prepared casters.

[jmax]

I see your point about the wording of Shapechange. This interpretation would really suck for Supernatural-based classes like Binders.

There is an argument against losing class-based supernatural abilities: You generally get to choose which order you apply things to a character to most advantageous effect. Hence, you could decide to apply class-based abilities after shapechange abilities, achieving the desired layering. (This argument would not work for race-based supernatural abilities since you are no longer of your starting race after applying shapechange.)

I have to say I like your interpretation better :-)

If that's plausible from a rules perspective, I'm all for it. I think losing class-based abilities is silly anyway, since they have nothing to do with your actual form.


Free Metamagic is plausibly written with spontaneous casting in mind, but it doesn't seem to limit to spontaneous casting by RAW. The operative text is:

which seems clear enough in the case of prepared casters.

Works for me - and it does indeed sound like you can use that form just while preparing and switch to something else afterward. Excellent!

[Baby Gary]

Thanks a lot for this, this is a great thing to have for when I every get shapechange on any of my characters (my Barbarian can do this if I believe in him)

I do want to point a few things out though. You said that Nixie’s Grace is a very good spell for this but it has a short duration and that it is a bard only spell. If only you could get that to last for a while a lot longer and to also be able to cast Shapechange... I think I found a way that you could do this.

first how to get Shapehange on a bard. This is rather easy, Sublime Chord. This PrC you already mentioned so I don't think I need to go into detail how it would work.

But the million dollar question is how to get Nixie's Grace to last longer. I have a solution. Divine Bard + Dip in Cliotered Cleric + DMM. Divine bard so your spells are divine, cloistered cleric to get Turn Undead attempts (you already have a high cha, so these shouldn't be too hard of a resource to obtain) and to get Extend Spell for free (got to love planning domain), and DMM to persist Nixie’s Grace.

in the end the build could look something like this:
Divine Bard 1/ Cloistered Cleric 1/ Divine Bard +8/ Sublime Chord 1/ Mystic Thurge 9

If you have any questions about how this would work (I am rather tired right now) just ask. I may have messed up slightly with some of the stuff due to not having my book with me right now.

[jmax]

Thanks a lot for this, this is a great thing to have for when I every get shapechange on any of my characters (my Barbarian can do this if I believe in him)

I do want to point a few things out though. You said that Nixie’s Grace is a very good spell for this but it has a short duration and that it is a bard only spell. If only you could get that to last for a while a lot longer and to also be able to cast Shapechange... I think I found a way that you could do this.

first how to get Shapehange on a bard. This is rather easy, Sublime Chord. This PrC you already mentioned so I don't think I need to go into detail how it would work.

But the million dollar question is how to get Nixie's Grace to last longer. I have a solution. Divine Bard + Dip in Cliotered Cleric + DMM. Divine bard so your spells are divine, cloistered cleric to get Turn Undead attempts (you already have a high cha, so these shouldn't be too hard of a resource to obtain) and to get Extend Spell for free (got to love planning domain), and DMM to persist Nixie’s Grace.

in the end the build could look something like this:
Divine Bard 1/ Cloistered Cleric 1/ Divine Bard +8/ Sublime Chord 1/ Mystic Thurge 9

If you have any questions about how this would work (I am rather tired right now) just ask. I may have messed up slightly with some of the stuff due to not having my book with me right now.

Yeah, I've started putting together some not-super-cheesy shapechange-based builds. The only one I've finished so far is a Divine Bard/Sublime Chord. You need Alternate Source Spell (from Dragon Magazine #325) to qualify for Sublime Chord with a Divine Bard, but I include that bit. (Incidentally, I really really want to play this build, because it makes me grin like an idiot thinking about having all of those Charisma-based abilities with the same save DC as my best spells.)

The Cloistered Cleric dip is an interesting idea. I generally try to stay away from Divine Metamagic shenanigans - I'm already pushing the boundaries of reasonable with shapechange in general. I do have a section on Cheese where all the really stupid-broken stuff goes.

I think your build is technically legal (if you use Alternate Source Spell to qualify), although it's a little dubious. Sublime Chord technically is an arcane class even if you build it on top of a divine base class with Alternate Source Spell, but it makes the whole thing feel shaky. Probably worth a mention. Although if you're only after persisted nixie's grace, it's probably not worth taking the one-level dip anyway - Sublime Chord 9 only gives you a single 9th-level spell, so your shapechange career starts at 20 and has no other 9th-level spells in its future. On the other hand, you could of course persist all kinds of other junk, so it's a useful variant if you can present it to your DM with a straight face.

If you want to check out the Shapechange Builds document I'm working on, it's here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OPQvqC0Q9p0LdFZJ1Yq30sfhXeYtkgbH8oNxCXrU9zk/edit?usp=sharing (keep in mind that it is a work in progress)

Someday I'll need to find an experienced local DM interested in doing a 20th-level for playing with shapechange so I can test a lot of my theories and builds. Something he won't mind getting wrecked. Probably a tall order.

[Eldariel]

Thanks a lot for this, this is a great thing to have for when I every get shapechange on any of my characters (my Barbarian can do this if I believe in him)

I do want to point a few things out though. You said that Nixie’s Grace is a very good spell for this but it has a short duration and that it is a bard only spell. If only you could get that to last for a while a lot longer and to also be able to cast Shapechange... I think I found a way that you could do this.

first how to get Shapehange on a bard. This is rather easy, Sublime Chord. This PrC you already mentioned so I don't think I need to go into detail how it would work.

But the million dollar question is how to get Nixie's Grace to last longer. I have a solution. Divine Bard + Dip in Cliotered Cleric + DMM. Divine bard so your spells are divine, cloistered cleric to get Turn Undead attempts (you already have a high cha, so these shouldn't be too hard of a resource to obtain) and to get Extend Spell for free (got to love planning domain), and DMM to persist Nixie’s Grace.

I recommend Sacred Exorcist so you don't lose caster levels (though of course, you can fit the CC level before Sublime Chord to not lose any effective casting so that's just as well). That said, there are plenty of ways, really. Incantatrix, Spelldancer, etc. work right out of the box. You can get it on arcane lists through Arcane Disciple for Miracle or something like Wyrm Wizard or Recaster with Spell Research/similar effects. You could be a base Cleric and Miracle Nixie's Grace persisting it via. DMM. Archivist works the same with a Sacred Exorcist dip. Druid would have to add it to their list somehow, but if they could, they also have access to DMM. There are also many ways to reduce your Persist costs and do this the oldfashioned way; if you get 9th level spells (e.g. Sublime Chord), just reducing DMM to +4 (say, Practical Metamagic and Metamagic School Focus) and taking Versatile Spellcaster would allow persisting Nixie's Grace off a 10th level slot by burning two 9th level ones.

[jmax]

I recommend Sacred Exorcist so you don't lose caster levels (though of course, you can fit the CC level before Sublime Chord to not lose any effective casting so that's just as well). That said, there are plenty of ways, really. Incantatrix, Spelldancer, etc. work right out of the box. You can get it on arcane lists through Arcane Disciple for Miracle or something like Wyrm Wizard or Recaster with Spell Research/similar effects. You could be a base Cleric and Miracle Nixie's Grace persisting it via. DMM. Archivist works the same with a Sacred Exorcist dip. Druid would have to add it to their list somehow, but if they could, they also have access to DMM. There are also many ways to reduce your Persist costs and do this the oldfashioned way; if you get 9th level spells (e.g. Sublime Chord), just reducing DMM to +4 (say, Practical Metamagic and Metamagic School Focus) and taking Versatile Spellcaster would allow persisting Nixie's Grace off a 10th level slot by burning two 9th level ones.

I think at that point it makes more sense for me to link to a Free & Reduced Metamagic handbook rather than try to include all the permutations in the shapechange handbook. Too much scope creep, and the handbook is already 100 pages. If you have a particular handbook or guide you recommend for that, I'll link to that.

[Eldariel]

Now that I think about it, there probably isn't a generic metamagic reduction/free metamagic application handbook. All the options are covered in their respective class guides but the only Metamagic Handbook is the Metamagic and You: A Thesis (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=972), which is comprehensive but a tad too comprehensive for such purposes. Be that as it may, it may be worth a link and just mention the most common easy means of accessing free persistomancy in a cliff notes sort of a way (Incantatrix, Spelldancer, Divine Metamagic; Metamagic Song might warrant a mention but then again the cap makes it unable to persist anything truly extraordinary - and Tainted Scholar is just too broken to play) with a link for more details. Of course it bears to focus more on the metamagic reduction and other things offered by Shapechange (it just so happens e.g. Tome Dragon metamagic reduction suffices for persisting Nixie's Grace on a Sublime Chord generally).

[jmax]

it just so happens e.g. Tome Dragon metamagic reduction suffices for persisting Nixie's Grace on a Sublime Chord generally

So convenient! :smallbiggrin:

I'll add a small section on persistomancy. That's really the only magic relevant for shapechange except Extend Spell. I probably won't go into too much depth, though. Anyone who wants a deep dive can read Metamagic and You.

Have you had a chance to check out the "Divine Chord" build? I sent it to you by email a while back, but it's linked in the handbook itself now under Specific Builds (https://docs.google.com/document/d/127el4KqlL2ALu1chZ9WLPGFOu1InVTJ2pmxAmYAARbE/edit?ts=59f7dabb#bookmark=id.mrjti4vnuc5x) (which is deceptive because right now there's only the one). I'm particularly interested in any more efficient ways to spend the wealth by level, although it's already surprisingly flexible if you don't plan to dump a bunch of resources into beat-sticking.