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Icewalker
2007-08-18, 02:01 AM
I think there's a feat somewhere which lets you use a two-handed weapon in one hand, but I don't know what it is and I can't find it. Anyone know? I need it so my hoplites can use spears and a shield.

SadisticFishing
2007-08-18, 02:05 AM
Well, by 3.0 rules (I think), Monkey Grip (CWar) would let you do this.

Not anymore. :(

Icewalker
2007-08-18, 02:07 AM
Hrm, looking for something 3.5. I don't see why you can't use spears in one hand anyways :smallannoyed: loads of civilizations did so, especially ancient Greece (phalanx, anyone?).

Also: anybody know how to get a 6th feat to a 12 HD construct?

Paragon Badger
2007-08-18, 02:19 AM
Well... if your DM is liberal with interpretations of the rules... :-P

[/quote]A weapon’s size category isn’t the same as its size as an object. Instead, a weapon’s size category is keyed to the size of the intended wielder. In general, a light weapon is an object two size categories smaller than the wielder, a one-handed weapon is an object one size category smaller than the wielder, and a two-handed weapon is an object of the same size category as the wielder.[quote]

So a medium sized creature wielding a two-handed weapon with monkey grip may just be able to use it as a one-handed weapon, since it's now one size category smaller... Maybe. You'd really have to run it by your DM, though.

It really depends on the game... I'm an advocate of house rules varrying from campaign to campaign, though...so whatever. :-P

Icewalker
2007-08-18, 02:21 AM
Well, I'm using it for a homebrew creation for use in the MitP II project...so I'm not sure.

Droodle
2007-08-18, 02:22 AM
Hrm, looking for something 3.5. I don't see why you can't use spears in one hand anyways :smallannoyed: loads of civilizations did so, especially ancient Greece (phalanx, anyone?).Shield and Pike style from Dragon Magazine (338 p92) allows you to use a reach granting polearm with a shield.

Icewalker
2007-08-18, 02:26 AM
Can you please explain how that works? Sounds perfect.

I could also use the stats for a pike.

Edit: Never mind! I found the feat. Looks great, although I have to downgrade his shield to light. Still, looks good. Thank you for your help.

Douglas
2007-08-18, 08:30 AM
There's Wield Oversized Weapon from Complete Warrior, but that's an epic feat.

brian c
2007-08-18, 10:36 AM
Hrm, looking for something 3.5. I don't see why you can't use spears in one hand anyways :smallannoyed: loads of civilizations did so, especially ancient Greece (phalanx, anyone?).

Also: anybody know how to get a 6th feat to a 12 HD construct?

Constructs are mindless, and thus don't get any skills or feats. The only exception, far as I can think, are Warforged because they're Living Constructs.

Iku Rex
2007-08-18, 11:16 AM
I think there's a feat somewhere which lets you use a two-handed weapon in one hand, but I don't know what it is and I can't find it. Anyone know? I need it so my hoplites can use spears and a shield.Use Small longspears.

UglyPanda
2007-08-18, 11:23 AM
Awaken Construct gives constructs an int score, which will give it skills and feats. The fact that Warforged have intellects let them take skills and feats, not the organic components.


Use Small longspears.
According to the FAQ, that causes a -2 penalty.

Iku Rex
2007-08-18, 11:37 AM
According to the FAQ, that causes a -2 penalty.According to the Player's Handbook it does indeed cause a -2 penalty. I know that. But it lets his hoplites use (long)spear and shield.

Icewalker
2007-08-18, 01:52 PM
Constructs are mindless

No, most are, but not all. Some have an int score and get skills and feats.

Kevlimin_Soulaxe
2007-08-18, 02:14 PM
Just use a trident and describe it as a spear.

Besides, hoplites didn't pull D&D style melee-ing with spear and shield, they pressed forward in a formation. Which is something I don't think your "hoplite" is going to do anytime soon...

knightsaline
2007-08-19, 12:47 AM
The only weapon that would allow you to do something like that is a bastard sword. you would have to either take MWP bastard sword (feat technically does not exist, as those proficient with martial weapons would be able to take the next feat) or EWP bastard sword (requires 13 STR, allows you to deal 1d12 damage, look really cool while doing the nearly impossible). this is core only, there may be some other weapons from the other setting books that have this.

Miraqariftsky
2007-08-19, 09:11 AM
How about a medium character plain well taking two small greatswords with TWF? Stretching the logic, is it possible?

TheOOB
2007-08-19, 11:16 AM
Constructs are mindless, and thus don't get any skills or feats. The only exception, far as I can think, are Warforged because they're Living Constructs.

Actually, most constructs (including golems, the quintessential constructs) are mindless. A good number of constructs (such as the inevitables) do have an Int score and gain skills and feats just like any other creature. A warforged gets skills and feats not because they are a living construct, but because they have an Int.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-08-19, 11:56 AM
How about a medium character plain well taking two small greatswords with TWF? Stretching the logic, is it possible?

It requires no stretch of logic, just an additional -2 modifier on attack rolls.

Matthew
2007-08-19, 07:05 PM
RAW, there are only two or three ways to use a Spear with a Shield.

3.0 - Monkey Grip makes it possible to use any Large Weapon as a Medium sized Weapon, the meaning of which was more significant at that time.

3.5 - The aforementioned Pyke and Shield Feat is your best bet, with the Short Spear being pretty much the only other option outside of 'inappropriately sized weapons' and certain rubbish Feats.

Using a Trident and 'changing the fluff' is pretty much equiavlent to just changing the mechanic of Spears so that they can be used One Handed with Martial Weapon Proficiency (Spear). Both are alterations of what is presented in the book and neither will unbalance your game.

Personally, allowing Long Spears and Spears to be used as One Handed Martial Weapons is my favoured solution to the problem; I would also grant Tridents a +2 Disarm Bonus to prevent them becoming entirely obsolete.

the_tick_rules
2007-08-19, 07:56 PM
i would allow a character with monkey grip to wield a THW of their size in one hand. a large longsword has same damage, crit range, and almost same weight as a medium greatsword, close enough.

yango
2007-08-19, 09:18 PM
i would allow a character with monkey grip to wield a THW of their size in one hand. a large longsword has same damage, crit range, and almost same weight as a medium greatsword, close enough.

Except you should probably tack on the -2 normally associated with using a large longsword, otherwise they're getting away from it for free.

Theres also the issue that magical large longswords cost more than magical medium greatswords.

If you allow that, you've got a bunch of issues balancing large/medium weapons for cost.

Funkyodor
2007-08-20, 02:05 AM
Imagine the cheese then involved with the Small Spiked Chain and Large or Tower Sheild. Or Dual wield Small Spiked Chains... I really do not know how one would do this, well just a sec. I do remember seeing a martial arts flick where some guy swung around 2 chains and beat on the main hero, but he got his rear kicked. For a -2 to hit you get a decent AC bonus with the shield, or -4 for 2 reach attacks.

Paragon Badger
2007-08-20, 02:16 AM
I'd make a house rule that you do not gain reach benefits from a reach weapon that is smaller than normal... :smallconfused:

Because... A small longspear is really just a medium shortspear, no? :smalltongue:

Zincorium
2007-08-20, 02:17 AM
Imagine the cheese then involved with the Small Spiked Chain and Large or Tower Sheild. Or Dual wield Small Spiked Chains... I really do not know how one would do this, well just a sec. I do remember seeing a martial arts flick where some guy swung around 2 chains and beat on the main hero, but he got his rear kicked. For a -2 to hit you get a decent AC bonus with the shield, or -4 for 2 reach attacks.

kusari-gamas, DMG pg 145.

Reach and most of the other spiked chain bonuses, d6 damage, and they're light weapons, rather than one handed like two spiked chains would be.

Oh, and only a -2 penalty when dual wielding rather than -6 for two small-sized spiked chains.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-08-20, 03:01 AM
I'd make a house rule that you do not gain reach benefits from a reach weapon that is smaller than normal... :smallconfused:

Because... A small longspear is really just a medium shortspear, no? :smalltongue:


It is not even really a house rule.


Reach Weapons: Glaives, guisarmes, lances, longspears, ranseurs, spiked chains, and whips are reach weapons. A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that aren’t adjacent to him or her. Most reach double the wielder’s natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away.
(My emphasis)

BardicDuelist
2007-08-20, 03:37 AM
Yes, but the above post does not involve SMALL longspears (which have reach). It WOULD be a house rule to make them not have reach when used by medium characters. Normally they simply take a -2 penalty.

I favor this ruling. While a lance may be used one handed while mounted with the implied reasoning being that this was a historically common use for it, a similar special circumstance should be made for longspears used in combination with a shield. This was also commonly used.

Or you could take improved buckler defense and shield specialization buckler an have a similar mechanical effect of using a light shield and a reach weapon.

If you were going to use a trident and just change the fluff, you might as well use a shortspear. d6 to d8 is nothing to really worry about, and you can throw it better.

Just a side note, if you want to create a hoplite-esque character, Expertise and Allied Defense make a good combination for both crunch and fluff (all adjacent allied gain the benefit of your Expertise bonus to AC).

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-08-20, 03:49 AM
Yes, but the above post does not involve SMALL longspears (which have reach). It WOULD be a house rule to make them not have reach when used by medium characters. Normally they simply take a -2 penalty.

It follows quite naturally from the mentioning of inappropriate weapon sizes in relation to large creatures.
Why should this not apply to creatures of other sizes than large?


How do reach weapons work if they are of a different size than the creature wielding them? Say, an ogre wielding a Small or Medium glaive, or a human with the MonkeyGrip feat wielding a Large ranseur? What is the reach for each situation?

A reach weapon doubles its wielder’s natural reach, but only if the weapon is at least of an appropriate size for the wielder. Wielding a “too-small” reach weapon grants no reach.
An ogre (Large) wielding a Medium or smaller reach weapon gains no reach from the weapon, and could thus attack foes either 5 feet or 10 feet distant (as normal for a Large creature wielding a non-reach weapon).
A human (Medium) wielding a Large or larger reach weapon could attack a creature 10 feet away (but no further), and could not use the weapon to attack a creature 5 feet away
(as normal for a Medium creature wielding a reach weapon). A human wielding a Small reach weapon would gain no reach from the weapon.
The Player’s Handbook isn’t as clear on this as it could be, although an example of reach in action on page 113 in the Player’s Handbook provides pretty strong support: “A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away . . .” [italics added]. While this reference doesn’t mention the ability to wield a reach weapon larger than the appropriate size, allowing such a weapon to grant reach to its wielder is a reasonable extension of the spirit and intent of the rule.

SpikeFightwicky
2007-08-20, 07:53 AM
Why not just use a shortspear? It's one handed and has a 20 ft. range increment.


Shortspear: A shortspear is small enough to wield one-handed. It may also be thrown.

Seems to fit bill quite nicely.

Matthew
2007-08-20, 08:07 AM
Why not just use a shortspear? It's one handed and has a 20 ft. range increment.



Seems to fit bill quite nicely.
That would be because it sucks (also because it used to be known as the 'Half Spear' and was specifically made for the 'short folk' who under 3.0 Rules would not have otherwise been able to use Spears).

3e
Half Spear (1D6 x2) [Medium Simple Weapon (One Handed)]
Short Spear (1D8 x3) [Large Simple Weapon (Two Handed)]
Long Spear (1D8 x3) [Large Martial Weapon (Two Handed)]

3.5e
Short Spear (1D6 x2) [One Handed Simple Weapon]
Spear (1D8 x3) [Two Handed Simple Weapon]
Long Spear (1D8 x3) [Two Handed Simple Weapon]

One of the worst revisions between 3.0 and 3.5.

Thanatos 51-50
2007-08-20, 08:23 AM
Pole weapons get shafted (no pun intended) when you try to give them rule to govern their behavior.
For example: sure, its REALLY easy to beatt the snot out of someone right next to you if you're wielding a halbred, lance or longspear, just bust 'im up with the haft. I also never liked shortspears (pointy!) dealing damage equivilent to a quarterstaff (blunt) because the pointy thing is smaller. Unfortunatly, it comes down to game balance.
By RAW, changing the flavor on tridents seems to be your best bet short of ridiculous feats. (I even call my daggers "stilettos", "dirks" or "main-gauches" and mess around with other weapon names on a constant basis.)

Person_Man
2007-08-20, 09:11 AM
I'd just let you use it as a house rule.

Another option is to arm your first row with spears and shields, and your second row with Awl Pikes (15 ft. reach, you can find it on Crystalkeep). This will grant you the same formation benefits, without having to screw with the rules.

Matthew
2007-08-21, 12:31 PM
Actually, I have been meaning to try out a formation with three ranks of 3e Awl Pikes and Bucklers (which I have just remembered is another method of producing a Shield and Spear formation).

I just can't think of an appropriate context where it would be fun for an Adventure. I might end up running a War Game with D&D Rules just to see how it would work. I'll have to take another look at Complete Warrior and Heroes of Battle.