Hybrid monk/invetigator type build help

[frost890]

I am trying to find a acrobatic monk type build that allows for a lot of skills. I am hoping for unarmed progression but that is not likely from what I see. I also like having skills but it seems like you never have enough skill points. I am looking for something like MacGyver meets Bruce Lee.

So my question is how do I build a Skill Monkey Monk? I have been doing school work so if I am unclear just say so my brain is shot.

[ATHATH]

From what a quick search on (the) Archives of Nethys tells me, no 1st party Monk archetype exists that alters the number of skill points that you gain per level. Several alter your class skills, though (although remember that archetypes that modify the "class skills" feature can't stack with each other).

Here's a list of them:
http://archivesofnethys.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Monk%20Brazen%20Di sciple
http://archivesofnethys.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Monk%20Hellcat
http://archivesofnethys.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Monk%20Karmic%20Mo nk
http://archivesofnethys.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Monk%20Perfect%20S cholar
http://archivesofnethys.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Monk%20Sage%20Coun ciler
http://archivesofnethys.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Monk%20Serpent-Fire%20Adept
http://archivesofnethys.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Monk%20Terra-Cotta%20Monk
http://archivesofnethys.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Monk%20Wanderer

The Perfect Scholar (http://archivesofnethys.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Monk%20Perfect%20S cholar) archetype gives you access to the Lore ability, which may be of use to you.

Lore (Ex): At 3rd level, the perfect scholar gains a bonus equal to 1/2 his monk level on Knowledge checks and can attempt Knowledge checks untrained.

This ability replaces still mind.

[ATHATH]

Ninjas get 8+INT skill points per level and can pick up Unarmed Combat Mastery as a Master Ninja Trick, which gives them the unarmed strike damage of a Monk of their Ninja level minus 4. Ninjas have Ki pools as well, if you're interested in those.

[ATHATH]

A quick search on (the) Archives of Nethys revealed no Investigator archetypes that improve your unarmed strike damage.

If you're using 3.PF material, this list might be of use to you: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?127732-3-X-Increasing-Size-Effective-Size-Unarmed-Damage-Reach

If you're willing to stomach a 3 level dip into Monk, the Monastic Legacy (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/monastic-legacy-combat/) feat combined with a Monk's Robe (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/r-z/robe-monk-s/) should bring your Unarmed Strike damage up to pretty decent levels.

[ATHATH]

A Toxicant Alchemist (http://archivesofnethys.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Alchemist%20Toxica nt) can inflict some nasty debuffs on those that he hits with his unarmed strikes or natural attacks. Alchemists are an INT-focused class with 4+INT skill points per level, btw.

A Brute Vigilante (http://archivesofnethys.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Vigilante%20Brute) gets 6+INT skill points per level (IIRC) and can spend a talent in order to use a Monk's unarmed strike damage while in Hulk-form.

[Rynjin]

If you're using 3rd party material, Dreamscarred Press has the Greater Unarmed Strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/feats/greater-unarmed-strike-combat/) Feat. SImply take that on an Investigator or other skill monkey class of your choice and you're set.

Similarly with the Feat the Internal Alchemist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/Alchemist/archetypes/paizo-alchemist-archetypes/internal-alchemist) is a fun Monk-like archetype for Alchemist, and stacks with Vivisectionist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/Alchemist/archetypes/paizo-alchemist-archetypes/vivisectionist) unless your GM is extreeeeeeemely pedantic about whether abilities that add options "alter" a class feature enough to make archetypes not stack.

Likewise an Irori worshiping Inquisitor works just fine as well.

Both perform admirably WITHOUT the Feat mind you; Most damage in Pathfinder comes from the static damage bonuses, so damage dice are largely irrelevant.

If spellcasting/extracts are not a main draw, you could play a Vigilante (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/vigilante/) with the Fist of the Avenger Talent. Full BaB, 6+Int skills/level, and +5 stacking damage to unarmed strikes (making them d10 equivalents by 10th) isn't too shabby.

If spellcasting IS a necessity, the Kensai (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/Magus/archetypes/paizo-magus-archetypes/kensai) Magus is also good (if you do end up with aforementioned overly strict DM that won't let you choose Unarmed Strike since it's not a Martial or Exotic weapon, just take the Rope Gauntlet or Thorn Bracer and enjoy being stronger anyway). Do not be suckered in by the Monk-like Esoteric (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/Magus/archetypes/paizo-magus-archetypes/esoteric-magus-archetype). It is very bad.

Brute Vigilante is likewise a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge trap, stay far, far away. Once you hit 6th and take the Sizing Equipment talent tax it's not as horrendous, but SURVIVING to 6th is not super likely for a character with d8 hit dice and -3 AC while wearing no armor. The average Brute will have a 9 AC (+2 Dex, 0 armor, -1 size, -2 special unnecessary Brute AC hit) between levels 1 and 5, deal pretty **** damage all things considered (as every low level unarmed attacker does), has a solid chance to attack his allies in every combat, and doesn't get a real Vigilante Specialization so can't take most of the currently available Talents...including the Avenger talents that grant extra Feats (and extra Feats are...kinda necessary for an unarmed user that doesn't get Flurry unless they get massive static damage boosts, which the Brute does not).

TL; DR: Brute bad. Ugh.

Basically, focus on the "skill monkey" bit, not the "Monk" bit. Fighting with unarmed strikes is easy, getting more skills per level isn't, relatively speaking.

[Geddy2112]

In addition to the above, throw improved unarmed strike on a bard(maybe even dip Umonk scaled fist for CHA to AC) and you can do some serious stuff. Bard's are probably the best skillmonkeys thanks to versatile performance and the near broken pageant of the peacock (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/bardic-masterpieces/masterpieces/pageant-of-the-peacock/). At 4th level, a bard can replace every knowledge skill with a charisma based skill, making intelligence irrelevant. You can dump it to 7 without issue and still out skill the smart skill monkey.

With pageant, you can trade out bardic knowledge and lore master in a more martial archetype. Arcane duelist comes to mind, but there are plenty out there.

[Psyren]

Seconding Perfect Scholar or Ninja - though neither are Int-focused, you don't need much Int to make them good either. For PS, combine it with Qinggong Monk.

[Ellrin]

I am trying to find a acrobatic monk type build that allows for a lot of skills. I am hoping for unarmed progression but that is not likely from what I see. I also like having skills but it seems like you never have enough skill points. I am looking for something like MacGyver meets Bruce Lee.

So my question is how do I build a Skill Monkey Monk? I have been doing school work so if I am unclear just say so my brain is shot.

If all you're looking for is a guy with brains who can punch some faces in, pure investigator can (eventually) get you there, if you don't mind magicking up a bit to get to the punching faces portion of the evening. Investigators get access to the monstrous physique line of spells, which among other forms, allows you to become forms such as the calikang (six claws) and gegenees (six slams). Since these are primary natural attacks, you make all of them at your full BAB (or BAB-5 if you're also using a manufactured weapon in the same attack action). You could also wear a manufactured weapon that you don't need to use your arms for (such as armor spikes, though those specifically may not work thematically for punching face) in order to get all six of your natural attacks on top of your iteratives.

You could also add on extracts like fluid form and long arm to increase your reach, making you more a Dhalsim than a Bruce Lee type.

I believe monstrous physique II, which is when you get access to the calikang, only comes online at level 10, though, so you'd have a bit of a wait getting there. Since you'd already be planning to specializing in natural and unarmed attacks, though, you could certainly take feats/equipment that would bolster your unarmed attacks prior to that point.

If you're worried about action economy, a pair of poisoner's gloves will let you self-"bad"-touch to activate extracts on yourself at the cost of a single attack action each (or maybe even less, depending on the permissiveness of your DM—since it's usually a free action to touch yourself).

[Domar]

A Polymath Investigator with Greater Unarmed Strike and Broken Blade could work. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/classes/martial-class-templates/polymath-template/

[Rynjin]

A Polymath Investigator with Greater Unarmed Strike and Broken Blade could work. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/classes/martial-class-templates/polymath-template/

If you're bringing in DSP classes, you can just play a Meditant Psychic Warrior, Vigilante Stalker, or Aurora Soul Mystic in any case.

That archetype/template actually seems pretty cool though if you want to play a Monk-like Investigator specifically. Too bad it doesn't stack with Empiricist though.

[Domar]

Other DSP classes are better at punching but it's still a good choice if you want to be a spellcasting skill monkey.
Studied Strike works well with the single attack nature of most strikes.
Domino Effect works great with multi hit and multi target attacks whenever you have adjacent enemies.

[ATHATH]

Do not be suckered in by the Monk-like Esoteric (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/Magus/archetypes/paizo-magus-archetypes/esoteric-magus-archetype). It is very bad.
Why, exactly, is the Esoteric bad?

[angelpalm]

Why, exactly, is the Esoteric bad?

Lesser spells, no spell recall, no bonus feats, and a crap crit range and multiplier using your unarmed strikes come to mind. I think you lose your medium and heavy armor proficiency for something like a +2 total dodge bonus that you don't even see until higher levels lol. Better off just being a normal magus using a Cestus.

[frost890]

Thanks all this will give me some things to think about.