Circus Wagon

[Arzul]

Hello fellow gamers,

I'm trying to figure out what the circus wagon they used in the 2017 IT movie is called ? I am planning to make it into the vehicle of my IT/Pennywise build and i also need a hand figuring out what magic to have on it, like to hide it and to keep unwanted people out of it?

[Avigor]

For magics, the most powerful option for the inside would be a combination of Private Sanctum and Forbiddance. For the outside you'll need Nondetection or Sequester, depending on how powerful you want the effect to be.

As for the type of wagon, sorry no help there... Shouldn't be hard to just homebrew something appropriate if you need to know it's carry capacity or such. Also, remember that in the movie, it didn't move, at most it opened.

[Arzul]

For magics, the most powerful option for the inside would be a combination of Private Sanctum and Forbiddance. For the outside you'll need Nondetection or Sequester, depending on how powerful you want the effect to be.

As for the type of wagon, sorry no help there... Shouldn't be hard to just homebrew something appropriate if you need to know it's carry capacity or such. Also, remember that in the movie, it didn't move, at most it opened.

Ok private sanctum and forbiddance are good i'm thinking sequester over nondetection but also thinking of either secret chest or or using a bit of information on the folding wagon 4 or 5 and making it be able to hold more items and treasure lol though next would be to figure out what type of creature to pull it unless i have a gnome pilot it lol

[Avigor]

Ok private sanctum and forbiddance are good i'm thinking sequester over nondetection but also thinking of either secret chest or or using a bit of information on the folding wagon 4 or 5 and making it be able to hold more items and treasure lol though next would be to figure out what type of creature to pull it unless i have a gnome pilot it lol

Another idea that might be worth implementing is surrounding it with a fear aura, so they have to make a will save just to enter. Something tells me using a full-blown unhallow with fear attachment might be a bit much (at the very least, I have trouble reconciling the magic circle against good effect) so I'd suggest only applying a 10' fear aura so they have to make that save before they hit the forbiddance damage.

As for movement, why not just use some sort of animated object/ telekinesis/ poltergeist flavor shenanigans? IT is rather supernaturally inclined so this fits the flavor IMO.

[Arzul]

Another idea that might be worth implementing is surrounding it with a fear aura, so they have to make a will save just to enter. Something tells me using a full-blown unhallow with fear attachment might be a bit much (at the very least, I have trouble reconciling the magic circle against good effect) so I'd suggest only applying a 10' fear aura so they have to make that save before they hit the forbiddance damage.

As for movement, why not just use some sort of animated object/ telekinesis/ poltergeist flavor shenanigans? IT is rather supernaturally inclined so this fits the flavor IMO.

Maybe an animated statue of a nightmare though i am wondering how you'd get a poltergeist flavor style shenanigans to move the wagon? i am making modifications to the stagecoach wagon transforming it into a circus wagon taking up 8 5' squares on the battle mat instead of 6 5' squares and then modifying it even farther by adding in the folding wagon 4 capacity for a bag of holding 4 type ability so it can hold more weight

[Avigor]

Maybe an animated statue of a nightmare though i am wondering how you'd get a poltergeist flavor style shenanigans to move the wagon? i am making modifications to the stagecoach wagon transforming it into a circus wagon taking up 8 5' squares on the battle mat instead of 6 5' squares and then modifying it even farther by adding in the folding wagon 4 capacity for a bag of holding 4 type ability so it can hold more weight

Think of it like a more powerful, undead-flavored Unseen Servant: Basically, it moves on it's own unless hit by an AMF or some sort of powerful dispel magic, dispel evil, turn undead, etc (and even then, the loss of movement might only be temporary). If you're the DM, you don't have to limit yourself to RAW, and if you're a player and you're creating IT for an evil campaign, I imagine the DM will probably be pretty open so long as you don't OP things too far.

Also, why does IT need to carry around a lot of weight? Is the load meat? If so, make sure you specify that the Private Sanctum prevents smell... cause I don't know if the RAW form does or not.

[Arzul]

Think of it like a more powerful, undead-flavored Unseen Servant: Basically, it moves on it's own unless hit by an AMF or some sort of powerful dispel magic, dispel evil, turn undead, etc (and even then, the loss of movement might only be temporary). If you're the DM, you don't have to limit yourself to RAW, and if you're a player and you're creating IT for an evil campaign, I imagine the DM will probably be pretty open so long as you don't OP things too far.

Also, why does IT need to carry around a lot of weight? Is the load meat? If so, make sure you specify that the Private Sanctum prevents smell... cause I don't know if the RAW form does or not.

actually thinking more about the bleak ones that the base monster can create lol i found a wagon called a shadow carriage to modify with the stagecoach and folding wagon my DM sees IT as a balancing force in the world so true neutral

[Avigor]

actually thinking more about the bleak ones that the base monster can create lol i found a wagon called a shadow carriage to modify with the stagecoach and folding wagon my DM sees IT as a balancing force in the world so true neutral

...a balancing force...? ...how...? ...IT is a child eating, arguably either necromancer or illusionist, fear-vampire monster... Unless you are doing something like completely repurposing IT to feed on the fear of the powerful, not caring about if they are good or evil...

[Arzul]

...a balancing force...? ...how...? ...IT is a child eating, arguably either necromancer or illusionist, fear-vampire monster... Unless you are doing something like completely repurposing IT to feed on the fear of the powerful, not caring about if they are good or evil...

I don't know lol i'm using a grey jester as the race for this build they feed on childen going with psionics such as wilder/sorcerer fighter/beguiler into mindbender/ nightmare spinner and shadowcraft mage the book heroes of horror says the grey jester is neutral evil

[Avigor]

Okay, however while that monster does look nice, it isn't really Pennywise, given that it feeds on joy - not fear.

I'd try and get the DM to agree to let you customize the monster - swap the Tasha's Hideous Laughter at will for HD giving Sorcerer levels (for more versatility of not only fear spells but also illusions/shapechange magics, maybe even a homebrew "Poltergeist" spell that functions like a more powerful Unseen Servant but is vulnerable to Turning and Dispel Evil and can pull your wagon for you), swap the requirements for feeding so the victim must be frightened (and if he's hesitant because of how relatively easy that is, offer to up the requirement to "panicked or cowering" given the state of Pennywise's victims in the movies, and/or add in that to feed you must learn the specific victim's personal fears and create them as a custom illusion), and take Dread Witch to bypass fear immunity (unless as part of the deal he doesn't want you getting that bypass option).

[Arzul]

Okay, however while that monster does look nice, it isn't really Pennywise, given that it feeds on joy - not fear.

I'd try and get the DM to agree to let you customize the monster - swap the Tasha's Hideous Laughter at will for HD giving Sorcerer levels (for more versatility of not only fear spells but also illusions/shapechange magics, maybe even a homebrew "Poltergeist" spell that functions like a more powerful Unseen Servant but is vulnerable to Turning and Dispel Evil and can pull your wagon for you), swap the requirements for feeding so the victim must be frightened (and if he's hesitant because of how relatively easy that is, offer to up the requirement to "panicked or cowering" given the state of Pennywise's victims in the movies, and/or add in that to feed you must learn the specific victim's personal fears and create them as a custom illusion), and take Dread Witch to bypass fear immunity (unless as part of the deal he doesn't want you getting that bypass option).

i'd like to get the fear stuff but i still have to talk with him about it

[Arzul]

i'd like to get the fear stuff but i still have to talk with him about it

Well he shot down the wagon idea but is letting me change the empathic feeding to fear instead of happiness and joy
so i have to change the tasha's hidious laughter to a fear spell any ideas ?

[Avigor]

Well he shot down the wagon idea but is letting me change the empathic feeding to fear instead of happiness and joy
so i have to change the tasha's hidious laughter to a fear spell any ideas ?

So full Sorcerer casting, with limited spells/day but the variety of options beyond fear like illusion and shape changing (which is Pennywise's main stock in trade) was thrown out in favor of an at-will spell-like ability? Ok...

Well, scare is the same spell level (wiz/sor 2, PHB), but it only causes the frightened condition and has an HD limit which is pretty restrictive and I am unaware of any means to directly increase that limit; on the other hand, it does hit 1 creature per 3 CL (HD?). Also, very weak flavor, as it's not an illusion or such. If you get stuck with this, you're basically stuck feeding on weaker civilian NPC's.

A stronger, yet still easy suggestion is fear (wiz/sor 4, PHB) which causes panic (or cowering if cornered) to all creatures in a cone with no HD limit. Still not very flavorful however, and as it is a stronger effect I could easily see it being veto'd.

However, far better than either of those is manifest nightmare (Improved Oneiromancy feat spell level 4, Heroes of Horror - poetic that it's the same book you're already using for your monster), which makes a single target's worst fear manifest as an illusion, causing either shaken or panicked conditions depending on if they succeed or fail at their Will save vs fear on any given round during it's duration (concentration + 3 rounds), and they must interact with it to disbelieve the illusion and stop the constant saving throws. Add in the modification that instead of the illusion appearing in open air it appears over your character in a manner similar to a disguise self (which would mean that if they try to attack their fear they are attacking you, which should help any balance concerns given the higher spell level and stronger effect compared to scare or fear) and you now have your Pennywise!

There are other fear spells, but they're either even higher spell levels, far weaker effects, or cause damage, so yeah those are probably your best bet.

[Arzul]

So full Sorcerer casting, with limited spells/day but the variety of options beyond fear like illusion and shape changing (which is Pennywise's main stock in trade) was thrown out in favor of an at-will spell-like ability? Ok...

Well, scare is the same spell level (wiz/sor 2, PHB), but it only causes the frightened condition and has an HD limit which is pretty restrictive and I am unaware of any means to directly increase that limit; on the other hand, it does hit 1 creature per 3 CL (HD?). Also, very weak flavor, as it's not an illusion or such. If you get stuck with this, you're basically stuck feeding on weaker civilian NPC's.

A stronger, yet still easy suggestion is fear (wiz/sor 4, PHB) which causes panic (or cowering if cornered) to all creatures in a cone with no HD limit. Still not very flavorful however, and as it is a stronger effect I could easily see it being veto'd.

However, far better than either of those is manifest nightmare (Improved Oneiromancy feat spell level 4, Heroes of Horror - poetic that it's the same book you're already using for your monster), which makes a single target's worst fear manifest as an illusion, causing either shaken or panicked conditions depending on if they succeed or fail at their Will save vs fear on any given round during it's duration (concentration + 3 rounds), and they must interact with it to disbelieve the illusion and stop the constant saving throws. Add in the modification that instead of the illusion appearing in open air it appears over your character in a manner similar to a disguise self (which would mean that if they try to attack their fear they are attacking you, which should help any balance concerns given the higher spell level and stronger effect compared to scare or fear) and you now have your Pennywise!

There are other fear spells, but they're either even higher spell levels, far weaker effects, or cause damage, so yeah those are probably your best bet.

Thanks man this is just to replace the spell like ability Tasha's Hideous that helps the empathic feeding i still get arcane spells from my classes my DM said to change it since that doesn't fit pennywise also changing the ability drain from charisma to INT he gave me the choice of WIS or INT i choose INT

[Avigor]

Thanks man this is just to replace the spell like ability Tasha's Hideous that helps the empathic feeding i still get arcane spells from my classes my DM said to change it since that doesn't fit pennywise also changing the ability drain from charisma to INT he gave me the choice of WIS or INT i choose INT

Personally I'd have left it at CHA drain or maybe switched to WIS drain as CHA reflects your sense of self while WIS drain is often used for insanity (such as the Madness Domain and Willing Deformity: Madness feats), but whatever works. Hope you get the manifest nightmare as disguise self given the OK as that is really the most fitting SLA for this.

[Arzul]

Personally I'd have left it at CHA drain or maybe switched to WIS drain as CHA reflects your sense of self while WIS drain is often used for insanity (such as the Madness Domain and Willing Deformity: Madness feats), but whatever works. Hope you get the manifest nightmare as disguise self given the OK as that is really the most fitting SLA for this.

I hope so but it seems i don't need the feats to take the spell as an SLA

[Avigor]

I hope so but it seems i don't need the feats to take the spell as an SLA

I should hope a racial SLA won't require a feat... Unless it was to upgrade the SLA's effect (like I remember the Drow have feats to do fancy things with their racial SLA's)...