When should I allow a magic gun?

[darkbuu_1]

First a bit of context:

I'm attempting to ease myself into dming by running the pre-written campaign "Sunless Citadel", which is 3.5 material but I've been using pathfinder stats for monsters. It's normally intended for four lvl ones but since I only have two players I've bumped them up to level 3, which in hindsight feels a little too high especially since they're also gestalts (gunslinger/cleric and summoner(uc)/ranger). They're been having a pretty lax time of it so I'm in no rush to hand out more bonuses.

So, even ignoring the horrible mess I've made to balance.

At what level should a gunslinger be getting his hands onto a magic gun and how much of their wealth should it take up?

Also if anyone knows how much xp players should have at the end of the first floor? I might be messing that up too

Thanks for any help.

Edit: or am I just doing the new dm thing where I'm afraid of high numbers?

[Forrestfire]

Pathfinder expects 3rd-level characters to have around 3,000gp worth of combined equipment and gold (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/character-advancement). Some characters would go for a magic gun at this point, though many I've seen purchase masterwork ones as well. At 4th-level, the expected amount is 6,000gp, and the relative cost of a gun is now just over a third of what they're meant to have.

As such, a character who's primarily fighting with a weapon will generally expect to gain or purchase a +1 weapon at some point between levels 3 and 4, or level 5 at the latest. Likewise, they probably might be looking for a cloak of resistance +1 and maybe +1 armor; the game's math (inasmuch as it has consistent math; there's outliers all over the place) runs on the assumption that characters have been allotted this amount of money for gear and spent a decent amount of it on equipment.

[digiman619]

A magic gun? Where'd they purchase that? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poI5dBNien0)

[Deophaun]

Magic guns are OP. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThxcIgUYse4)

Anyway, your question is basically "when do I give my players 2,000 gp." So yeah, you're doing the new DM thing. Worse: +1 isn't even getting you close to a high number. Its value is much more in overcoming DR/magic or hitting incorporeal creatures than the +1 damage (because you get the +1 to hit through masterwork already).

[Psyren]

A magic gun? Where'd they purchase that? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poI5dBNien0)

This! Comic! Sucks!


First a bit of context:

I'm attempting to ease myself into dming by running the pre-written campaign "Sunless Citadel", which is 3.5 material but I've been using pathfinder stats for monsters. It's normally intended for four lvl ones but since I only have two players I've bumped them up to level 3, which in hindsight feels a little too high especially since they're also gestalts (gunslinger/cleric and summoner(uc)/ranger). They're been having a pretty lax time of it so I'm in no rush to hand out more bonuses.

You should have done either the gestalt or the 2-level-boost, not both. Preferably the former since they actually have 3 characters (the two gestalts, and the eidolon, and they're about to get an animal companion too.)


So, even ignoring the horrible mess I've made to balance.

At what level should a gunslinger be getting his hands onto a magic gun and how much of their wealth should it take up?

Also if anyone knows how much xp players should have at the end of the first floor? I might be messing that up too

Thanks for any help.

Edit: or am I just doing the new dm thing where I'm afraid of high numbers?

Given that they're already ahead of curve, don't be afraid to curtail their wealth a bit until the module catches up to them. WBL is a guideline, not a rule - you should follow it in general, but deviating up or down throughout a campaign is fine too. As mentioned above, they have plenty of firepower.

[Buufreak]

Well, considering guns are weapons, I'd say roughly the exact time you allow any other magic weapon.

[darkbuu_1]

Thanks a bunch for all your reassurance. I saw the ~3,500gp price tag and the acceleration towards what is essentially a 90% hit chance and started panicking.

I'll keep them where they are power wise until the difficulty catches up but otherwise I'll just treat it as a regular weapon.

Thanks again.

[Forrestfire]

Thanks a bunch for all your reassurance. I saw the ~3,500gp price tag and the acceleration towards what is essentially a 90% hit chance and started panicking.

I'll keep them where they are power wise until the difficulty catches up but otherwise I'll just treat it as a regular weapon.

Thanks again.

Something to note is that the first attack in a full attack will hit the 75-90% hit chance (against average enemies) fairly quickly for most martials. That's a normal, expected result of the game math; it's the iterative attacks that, for most characters, will miss more commonly.

[Crake]

two things to keep in mind: Guns are generally significantly more expensive than other weapons, so they shouldn't appear at the same time other magic weapons do. After all, a standard rifle (not even masterwork) costs as much as a set of +2 armor without even enchanting. A +1 rifle is 6,300gp, while a +1 greatsword is 2,350gp.

Plus, you need to consider the rarity of guns in your campaign. I mean, if you've got common guns, then the price of guns is actually 1/10th of the book price, so then yeah, you should basically treat it as any other weapon, but if guns aren't common, then the real question is, what are the chances of them just finding magical guns lying around? Seems too convenient, and it downplays the uniqueness of the player having his own gun. What I would recommend is let the player enchant his own weapon, rather than tossing aside his gun that he's had since the start of his career for another one.