Can Kenku Wiz duplicate conjured items?

[LordofGoats]

I have been considering making a Conjuration Wizard Kenku. My main interest in them is hypothetically a conjuration wizard can make magical duplicates of small objects which eventually vanish. Since Kenku get advantage to duplicating items it seems they would be able to create nonmagical permanent copies of these conjured items. The issue of is it allowed is technically these conjured items were made by the player, even though technically they are copies of already existing objects.

VGtM says "You can duplicate other creatures' handwriting and craftwork. You have advantage in all checks made to produce forgeries or duplicates of existing objects." Does the fact that you are duplicating a duplicate override the fact that you made the conjured item yourself and make it permissable or does it violate the sacred laws of Kenku?

[Honest Tiefling]

I think the ability is meant for non-magical means only...Because it grants advantage. The Minor Conjuration ability doesn't call out for a check, so advantage on it wouldn't actually help at all. Fabricate doesn't give a check either, just wants the proficiency. If you are using a skill to make the non magical permanent versions, that'll probably depend on the DM and the skill.

If your question is if it violates the curse, I'd personally rule no, as long as you don't make any changes to the design without help from another character.

Also, sacred laws of the Kenku? I thought it was a curse, not a law.

[LordofGoats]

So you think it wouldn't work because the minor conjuration items are magical? I suppose that makes sense. I was thinking you could copy magical items in terms of physical design you just couldn't copy the actual magical effects within them, as that would be horribly powergamey. In this case I don't really care about maintaining a faint magical glow from the minor conjuration items so there is no real loss from this perspective.

Anyway, thanks for the response. I just liked the idea of a Kenku getting a fun and unique synergy with a ability from a non-optimal racial class.

[Potato_Priest]

I think the OP wants to run it like this.

1. Sees key
2. Makes magic copy of key
3. Use kenku forgery to make a physical copy of conjured key.

If you want to do it like that, it ought to work.

[LordofGoats]

Thank you, Potato_Priest! That is exactly what I was thinking. Basically it just lets you not have to steal to have the item, if you so wish.

[Honest Tiefling]

So you think it wouldn't work because the minor conjuration items are magical?

No, just that the class feature wouldn't help, mechanically, since there are no rolls. I think otherwise it'd just be an ability check to make a non-magical forgery, through the idea to use magic to make something to duplicate later is a good one. Only issue is that Fabricate wants you have proficiency in the tool and minor conjuration only lasts an hour, so you probably have some time constraints with that tactic for objects that take more an hour to forge, such as jewelry or coins.

I think there is room for the DM to say that you cannot perfectly duplicate an object, but I think ruling that a Kenku can is very flavorful for the race. I'd probably rule in favor, but might require an Investigation check for situations where time or other constraints apply. If your DM is a little leery of this, try to ask if you can use the skill to study an object quickly enough to make a copy to study from.

As a curiosity, what are you trying to forge? Knowing that might help because letting the Kenku forge papers occasionally is common sense because they literally have a racial trait for it, but I wonder if you're trying something more daring.

[LordofGoats]

Only issue is that Fabricate wants you have proficiency in the tool and minor conjuration only lasts an hour, so you probably have some time constraints with that tactic for objects that take more an hour to forge, such as jewelry or coins.


As a curiosity, what are you trying to forge? Knowing that might help because letting the Kenku forge papers occasionally is common sense because they literally have a racial trait for it, but I wonder if you're trying something more daring.


I didn't think the 1 hour limit was an issue because you can conjure items an unlimited number of times. The character could easily conjure an item again until the duplicate is created.

That is a good question. My idea was to have a mysterious merchant character like the Weapon Dealer in Resident Evil 4. I decided the Criminal background with the fence specialty (seller of stolen goods) would be very fun and flavorful for a Kenku. The ability to duplicate would also let him make copies of stuff he really liked which I thought was cool.

Overall I would definitely duplicate keys and documents as well as cool trinkets that aren't mechanically useful but that my character covets. Since Kenku lose normal speech I wanted to be able to employ their forgery to its fullest. Really it seems like the ability could be either pathetic or incredible depending in how the adventures go.