PDA

View Full Version : Pathfinder Starting a Wrath of the Righteous Campaign [GM Perspective, may contain spoilers]



The Mystic
2017-11-13, 01:16 AM
Welcome.

First of all, the usual start to a thread like this. If you recognise my username as that of your GM, kindly leave now.

Otherwise if you are a current player or intend to play in the future I have no personal stake, but suggest not reading further. If you want to though, I welcome your input.

------------------------------------------------

Right, with that out of the way, hello everyone. I'm going to be starting a Wrath of the Righteous campaign in the near future (Probably around the new year, maybe sooner, depending on other circumstances). Almost everybody I talk to about roleplaying is going to be in the campaign, which leaves me having all these ideas I'm excited about, as well as these quandaries I'd love to bounce off of people and little outlet for either. So I'm making this thread. Hope there are some who are interested.

The campaign is "Wrath of the Righteous" adventure path. I'll put up a brief summary here, but unless somebody asks for elaboration I'll be assuming basic familiarity with the campaign.

The plot of Wrath of the Righteous follows the story of the worldwound, a hole rent between the abyss and the material plane just over 100 years ago, among the various cataclysms surrounding the death of the god Aroden, patron of humanity. The game begins with the demons breaking the stalemate of the last 80 or so years by destroying one of the artifacts known as the "Wardstones" which formed a nation sized barrier to keep the abyss contained. Resultant from these events are our Heroes, who find themselves invested with some of the power of this artifact, becoming "Mythic" (more on Mythic in a bit) and the increasing stakes as our heroes must go on the offensive and ultimately close the worldwound before the restraining wall fails completely.

Mythic rules for Pathfinder are similar in some ways to Epic rules from d&d. Both feature characters achieving things "Beyond the impossible" in regular play. However the implementation of these rules are quite different. Epic rules move beyond ordinary levelling, whereas mythic accompanies it. It rarely allows a character to do something they could theoretically achieve sooner than normal, but instead breaks the limits on what somebody could possibly achieve. Of course, many of these limits were there in the first place for balance reasons making Mythic something which requires careful GM management, worse, a number of options are instead "Bigger Numbers" which can really throw balance out the window. One example of breaking these limits is, while a Mythic Necromancer cannot necessarily cast "Create Greater Undead," which is determined by their normal character level, they can gain the "Mythic Command Undead" feat at their first mythic tier, which grants them the ability to control intelligent undead without them receiving a new save every day. In the Golarion setting, as far as I can tell, Mythic is not talent or skill. If you are talented you have higher attributes, if you are skilled you have more levels. Being Mythic is the ability to achieve things that no level of mundane training or practice can achieve.

The background traits of each character leave them "Primed" to carry mythic power, but do not confer anything of the sort on them just yet.

------------------------------------------------

The Cast of Player Characters

The first major change I've made was removing the synergy bonuses for taking the Mythic Path associated with the campaign traits. My players are all capable character builders who are unlikely to have any issue being powerful anyway, and if their traits fit mechanically and thematically there is no reason to arbitrarily curtail their options.

Each of the characters needed to find a trait that suited their backstory, and ideally a different one to the other player's choices. I kept the option open for a custom one, but am glad they've all found one that felt fitting and saved me the trouble (Many had largely designed their characters before selecting traits, so it worked out quite well). The character also needed a reason to be in Kenabres for the Armasse celebrations that would kick of the story. Beyond this, and a willingness to fight the demonic hordes, they have a large degree of freedom in what they create, and I encouraged them to find things that Mythic let them do that was normally just not viable.

Sam Sparrow
Class: "Swiftblade" (Arcane Bloodrager that barely resembles the original class, but in a good way)
Campaign Trait: Riftwarden Orphan
Intended Mythic Path: Trickster

Sam's player has definitely taken the "Find something that normally wouldn't work that you want to play"
suggestion to heart. His character, called a "Swiftblade" to avoid the preconceptions around the bloodrager doesn't get angry,
he gets fast. The Urban Bloodrager archetype lets bloodrage give him dexterity bonuses and has no restriction on the actions he can take. At 4th level he gains a permanent blur while raging and at 8th level he can switch this to Haste. Mythic abilities allow him to further increase his base speed and when he puts resources into it he can achieve some incredible speeds.

As a former 3.5 player he wished to recapture the feel of that edition's prestige class, and has done so wonderfully.

Narratively, the character is definitely built to accommodate the mechanics, but has a Luke Skywalker charm to him never the less.

Sam is a half-elf, born to his crusader mother (Mundane Fighter, now retired) and an elven wizard father who abandoned his mother with a child, and an excuse of "A secret mission." Though his father bequeathed an Arcane bloodline upon his son,
his absenteeism soured Sam on arcane spellcasters and never worked to develop that talent, instead living with his mother,
living a relatively simple life and accepting her training in self defence. Never the less, his blood tells and Sam essentially possesses super-speed, which augments his combat prowess.

The savvy among you have probably figured out that his father did not deliberately abandon him, but was in fact killed, or turned to evil, on that fateful mission. (Trying to decide whether "No, I am your father" and "Join me, and together we shall rule" is too cliché or not, particularly as the player will pick up on the slightest speck of foreshadowing a mile away, as the trope really benefits from foreshadowing, but only if it is still a surprise in the end.

Recently Sam has discovered that his birthmark is of mystical significance to a secret society, but so far has only learned their name. The Riftwardens.

Tekri of Belkzen
Class: Fighter 1 / Cleric of Shelyn
Campaign Trait: Touched By Divinity (Heavily modified)
Intended Mythic Path: Hierophant

By far the most detailed character backstory of the group. She is also the one that diverts most from her campaign trait's description, but fortunately in ways that I could work with. More on those later. I'll start with an excerpt from the backstory the player sent me.

"Tekri was born to the Broken Grin tribe, a tribe of orcs which claimed land south of Scarwall in the Hold of Belkzen. The daughter of the tribe’s Abyss-tainted shaman, and an unknown human father. Bred for the half-orc cleverness and cunning, Tekri was destined to serve, and then replace, her mother.

There was one problem. Tekri was not particularly evil. An anomaly in the masses of orcs which populate Belkzen, she had neither the inherent maliciousness or malevolence of her brethren. She did not exactly understand why, or how, but her natural disposition put her at odds with the life she had been born into.

Now, while not exceptionally intelligent - though a little quicker than her full-blooded kin - Tekri was possessed by a strong intuitive sense, and yes, the bred-for cunning her half-breed kind were known for. She knew that if she fought back against, protested, or even merely questioned that which she lived amongst, her days would be ended. So she kept her mouth closed, and kept her eyes open for an escape."

When her tribe captured a party of adventurers, she arranged to set them free, on the condition that they take her with them. Once they had escaped she took on the role of scout and guide to the orcish lands for these adventurers and, as they travelled, began learning the strange details of the world beyond the orcish brutality that had been everything she had ever known. In particular it was the party cleric that showed her kindness. A devotee of Shelyn, goddess of art and beauty, whose mere existence seemed so alien to the Orc-blood.

All good things cannot last forever (much to Shelyn's perpetual discomfort) and Tekri returned one day from hunting to discover the party had been slaughtered.

"Though grief-stricken, Tekri knew that she had to move on, that she could not remain where she was. The orcs who had come for the group could certainly return, and even if they didn’t, sitting in a ravaged campsite that reeked of blood was a fool’s idea. But she had little idea where to go. She could not go back to the Broken Grin, nor did she wish to move backwards in life and try and find a new tribe to join. She did not want to stay in Belkzen. But where was there to go?

Tekri figured she had two options, based on what she had learnt from her foreign compatriots. She could head to Lastwall and join the crusaders there, or she could head to Absalom, and try and become a Pathfinder. She was uncertain that the crusaders would accept an orcish applicant - even if they did not simply kill her when they found her - but she had no idea where Absalom actually was, while she knew that Lastwall at least bordered the Hold.

So Tekri gathered up what camping and travel supplies had survived the raid, stuffing them into an old backpack. Surprisingly, she found the half-elf’s holy symbol, scuffed and unlooted, underneath a shred of tent canvas. So using it as a cloak clasp, she pinned the Shelynite symbol to her chest, and began making her way south-east, towards Lastwall."

But fate again, had other ideas. Between numerous distractions and clear omens, Tekri found her path turning more and more to the north, through parts of Ustalav and along the worldwound border. Eventually bringing her to an unknown city in the throws of celebration. Tekri had arrived at Kenabres in time for Armasse.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mechanically Tekri starts as a fighter, and will be transitioning to cleric shortly after the game starts (I have some ideas for this, later). Her player intends to have her play in the style of a reach cleric, functioning as a tower of safety for the party to retreat to for healing and support.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for the "Touched by Divinity" trait. The player grossly misunderstood what elements of the trait needed to be retained for the plot to play out as intended. He ended up holding the holy symbol of Shelyn, but there wasn't much mystery or control of her parentage for me. Though her father is unknown, there seems little reason for Shelyn to have had congress with an Demon worshipping shaman. I've long since abandoned that line, as I like Tekri's backstory far better than the likely result of forcing that, and frankly it feels to me that a godling should be more than mundane, right from the beginning.

Instead I will be taking a more general "Chosen One" approach. Tekri is a true rarity among the orcs, and she has earned the attention of Shelyn for it. If not for the events of the campaign, Tekri may have been prepared, then one day returned to create a safe place in Belkzen, where others may find peace. But as she becomes involved in the events of the worldwound incursion Shelyn will have to set that aside, as the world comes to rest on Tekri's shoulders.

Fortunately the game has done a fairly appalling job at making being the child of a god relevant, mechanically or narratively, which means I'm relatively free to play with this trait as I wish.



Karus
Class: Alchemist
Campaign Trait: Chance Saviour
Intended Mythic Path: Trickster / Archmage

Karus was initially inspired by the descriptions of racism in Kenabres against Tieflings, though his player has since come to realise that the racism tends to be more subtle than overt (The epidemic of witch hunting was a few decades ago now). The character's primary aspiration was to discover a way, alchemically, to no longer be a tiefling. This starts in the early stages as being able to use spells such as Disguise Self and Alter Self but with dreams much greater, such as 'curing' the abyssal affliction of the Tiefling and potentially even of Demons themselves.

We have developed on this idea, looking at motivations and history.

Karus was born during, or slightly before, the first crusade, but remembers little of his parentage. He and his younger sister (as he has largely accepted social outcast for himself, somebody else to motivate him felt useful) have grown up in the temple of Sarenrae in Kenabres, but he and his sister grew to adulthood over an entire human lifetime, so while there are those at the temple they love, and that support them, the two still felt isolated and needed to rely on each other.

Now an adult, Karus has found his own house and work as an alchemist, but his sister (about equivalent to a human 16 year old)
remains at the temple, and has begun learning the ways of an acolyte of Sarenrae.

Karus' ambition to create a cure the abyssal taint comes from a skewed perception of Sarenrae's ideology of redemption and seeks not only to cure form, but alignment. In a somewhat childish understanding of the way such things work.

At least at the beginning of the campaign, this is an ambition, not a goal. He is aware that this isn't attainable, or at least far beyond his capabilities.

Ysabel Bertran-Saintraille
Class: Oracle of the Outer Rifts (Flavoured towards angelic powers, rather than demonic)
Campaign Trait: Child of the Crusade
Intended Mythic Path: Hierophant (I think...)

The idea behind Ysabel came from two things the player notices in the rules and lore. The first is the idea that petitioners (the spirits of the dead) are occasionally called to ascend the mountain of heaven and become an archon. The second was a quirk of the spell "Cyclic Reincarnation" which, for non-humanoids, has a 75% chance to return the creature to life as a youth of it's race (Humanoids come back as a young adult who looks suspiciously like them).

The player mused to me about playing as a hero of the first crusade, reborn part way through their ascension to celestia. While normally this is something a little too outlandish for me, I felt that it could be a very interesting concept in a Mythic campaign.

Rather than trying to finagle the mechanics, we've agreed to handwaive the exact process of being reincarnated as an infant.

From this we get Ysabel, with no memories or awareness of her past life, born as a near-human aasimar, whose soul is slowly transmuting into an archon (and indeed her capstone is "You are now an outsider").

Modern day Ysabel is the inheritor to the minor noble title originally granted to her past self, though she has left management of the estate in her mother and sister's hands in order to join the crusades.


Tristan
Class: Sorceror (Words of Power, Abyssal Bloodline)
Campaign Trait: Stolen Fury
Intended Mythic Path: Archmage

Tristan is another example of doing something normally much less viable with mythic.
Specifically this character will be using the Words of Power ruleset, mitigating the loss of normal spellcasting using the Mythic ability "Wild Arcana" which will allow the player to access the more traditional spells a few times a day. After learning that the campaign as written has a fairly low optimisation threshold required to be functional, the player has decided that his first feat will be Martial Weapon Proficiency (Longsword).

This character was born with the arcane bloodline, and in his early teens was just starting to master cantrips when his parents took him from the city to visit relatives, before veering into the worldwound once safely away from civilisation. It was there that they subjected him to the ritual of the Stolen Fury trait, wishing to activate the latent power of their son, and to finally induct him into their demonic cult. (Though their biological child, he was born for the sake of maintaining a disguise, more than out of a desire for a child or love between his parents)

The ritual failed however, and the character escaped and, starving, diseased and more than half dead, was picked up by a crusader patrol.

Given shelter in the temple of Iomedae, the character had lost everything. The life he thought he knew was gone, shattered. Even the magic that he was beginning to discover refused to come to his call, and so, utterly without anything to rebuild his life around, the character became fervently Iomedaen, even as he was watched and suspected by others in the temple.

Only a few months before the beginning of the campaign he finally began to manifest magic again. Only now it was different,
it felt different, even though it still felt wonderful to use. What he now possessed was more chaotic, more primal. Though he does not yet realise it, his power comes now from the abyss.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

It is possible, depending on how the character progresses, that they will be taking a version of the Dragon Disciple prestige class,
adapted to demonic heritage.


-------------------------------------------------------------------

Right, that's probably enough to start with, but I've got plenty more to raise. One last thing to leave you with, as it's fairly central to the campaign, are my ruminations on Iomedae.

Iomedae
The Inheritor

As a mortal Iomedae was a paladin in service to Aroden, perhaps the greatest of them. When Iomedae gained a spark of the divine by completing the trial of the starstone she became the herald of Aroden. For nearly 700 years she served in this role, protecting the human world from the many entities that have tried to consume them.

This ended almost exactly 100 years ago upon the death of Aroden. Where Iomedae did what she has always done. She fought chaos and the evils it brings by ascending, taking charge and leading the way. It is in this way that Iomedae is the godess of leadership and of setting an example for others to follow.

Iomedae is not Aroden. Her church is not his church, of advancement and culture. Hers is a church of protection and preservation, for that was always her role as Herald. To create a space for these things to flourish.

Iomedae is unique among the greater gods for her youth, at about 800 years old there are surviving mortals that are older than her, and for the rapidity of her rise to the status of greater god, as she had only a small following prior to stepping in to protect the followers of Aroden. For these reasons, though Iomedae herself is clear in her intent, the religion of those who follow her is, even now, finding it's feet in the world in which it finds itself.

Draacul
2017-11-13, 11:52 AM
Ah,Chance Encounter.Worst trait of them all but the most important from the story perspective.

Geddy2112
2017-11-13, 12:41 PM
I am personally not a fan of mythic or epic, and curtailing it some is probably not killer if you know what you are doing. the AP needs it some, just make sure to read ahead. Overall I liked it as a fun big damn heroes fight ultimate evil adventure, and looks like you have a pretty cool cast.

Also, note that the designers made the Inheritor come off as a total four letter word in one part of the AP, making her kind of awful for an LG deity, so you might want to change that part or modify it so she comes off as less of a jerkish LG paladin stick in the mud trope. James Jacobs even admitted it was not the best execution. (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qngl?Book-5-Discussion-on-Iomedae-SPOILERS-AHOY)

The Mystic
2017-11-13, 06:53 PM
Thanks for your responses.


Ah,Chance Encounter.Worst trait of them all but the most important from the story perspective.

I'm not actually sure exactly why you think it's the worst. Mechanically a +2 to concentration strikes me as less useful than a free reroll on a failed stealth check. Thematically I actually like it more than Touched by Divinity (more for it's flawed payoff) or Exposed to Awfulness (whose payoff feels odd to me [Though I'm actually combining it with the stolen fury storyline])

Certainly some of the traits strike me as better narratively and mechanically than others, but they're all workable so long as they adapt to you, rather than you to them.


I am personally not a fan of mythic or epic, and curtailing it some is probably not killer if you know what you are doing. the AP needs it some, just make sure to read ahead. Overall I liked it as a fun big damn heroes fight ultimate evil adventure, and looks like you have a pretty cool cast.

Also, note that the designers made the Inheritor come off as a total four letter word in one part of the AP, making her kind of awful for an LG deity, so you might want to change that part or modify it so she comes off as less of a jerkish LG paladin stick in the mud trope. James Jacobs even admitted it was not the best execution.

I'm very well aware of the flaws in both the campaign and the mythic ruleset. I've done fairly extensive reading on that front, including that thread. As for the Iomedae scene, she will definitely be portrayed differently, though she's definitely not the only scene I'll be changing. I haven't come to any specifics on that, as I want to see the characters in action, before I decide on how Iomedae responds to them. Particularly the Heretical sorcerer.

I like what Mythic tries to do, thematically, even if it's mechanically full of flaws just waiting to be exploited. I would not ever consider running Mythic with a group I do not trust. However, I've been with my group for over a year now, two for many of them, and though we're all fairly skilled at optimisation, we all regard the group fun as our optimum. To this end I've seen my players deliberately avoiding taking abilities that improve raw damage and such, preferring the things that would not be accessible outside of mythic, which is where the true flavour really comes into play. Beyond this, I have made them aware that, if necessary, to avoid power creep I may need to ask them to adjust their abilities. As much as I hate doing this, power creep is a far worse consequence than adjustment.

I have had the recent pleasure of playing a Mythic Archmage, who is currently at level 18 / Tier 4 and I have thoroughly enjoyed the versatility that Wild Arcana brings me. However I have taken the lessons learned from that experience. For example, I will be limiting the number of maximum level spells that can be cast through mythic power to 2/day (working value). In order to give a little less reason to conserve their mythic points from other uses or lower level niche spells that don't usually see use because nobody prepares them.

The Mystic
2017-11-21, 08:48 AM
The quandary that currently has me struggling to progress is that of the Azverindus Rite.

In order to flesh out the backstory of Tristan (The Abyssal Bloodline Words of Power Sorcerer) I need to put some details to the Rite, so that the player and I can develop on the events that led up to, and followed, this incredibly significant event in their past.

For those who don't know of this Rite. It is a truly astounding ritual that allows an unwilling subject to be turned into a demon in the space of 24 hours. The ritual has only one stated caveat. It must be conducted in a place where the material and the abyssal planes are particularly weak. Fortunately the worldwound provides one (not the wound itself, though I suppose it's epicentre would also be viable).

The ritual has at least one second implied caveat. It didn't work. Something interrupted the ritual, or caused it to fail.

This ritual has given me some consternation, because it allows in one day what the only other ritual that transforms somebody into a demon can achieve in at least two years of dedicated work. It felt a bit like it broke the setting to me for a while.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The first thing I've determined about the rite, is that it's primary caster must be mythic. Simply put, it breaks the rules by which the universe naturally works. This breaks the "Why isn't everybody doing it?" question fairly handily, as mythic-ness has only recently become as common (which is still rare) as it is in very recent times.

The second thing I've done is merge this story with the trait which I felt was narratively weakest, and also went unused by any of the players. The Sarkoran barbarian who partially transforms into a demon when he rages was also a subject of this failed ritual (I'll be adapting him to be an Abyssal Bloodrager). He will recognise the PC, not as blood, but as a brother never the less, having embraced the powers the ritual has left him with. He will try to convince the PC to join him, and revel in the power. (I'll be completely honest and say that I actually mixed up these two traits at one point by accident, but liked what I got)

I've already told the player there were four subjects in the ritual, though not their fates. It is possible one or two of the others died, or could show up later in a variety of roles.

Related to this, I've decided that the ritual was conducted by the Glazrebu who favours elven form, "Jerribeth" prior to her becoming mythic. This allows me to tie the PC indirectly to the fall of Drezen, particularly if he learns the true story behind it, as well as gives me some roleplaying opportunities when she shows up later.

The player knows his parents were cultists (of Baphomet, though he doesn't know that bit). They never inducted him because he was simply their cover, not a child of any love. They saw an opportunity however when he began to develop cantrips, and Jerribeth quite pleased to discover a fourth suitable subject for her ritual at the last moment.

He was led out of the city on the pretence of visiting family, where they met Jerribeth and a party of cultists, as well as the three other subjects. Jerribeth sacrificed her monthly wish, having one of the cultists wish for the subject's compliance. From there he happily and obliviously travelled into the worldwound to the site of the ritual. Looking back he knows he, and the other children, were enchanted, though not the means.
--------------------------------------------------

What I am currently trying to figure out are the details of going through the ritual itself, as well as the events that allowed Tristan to escape. I'd love to hear ideas or scenes you guys think would fit.

SpamCreateWater
2017-11-21, 07:57 PM
I recommend reading through Kol Korran's WotR campaign journal. He has a tonne of spin off threads that ask questions on how to best approach issues he found in the AP. Also a good read :smallwink:

At the very least try get in contact with him to discuss the pitfalls he ran into. I definitely think, as one person said earlier, that you should read ahead. Far ahead. Even skimming a book or two ahead, so you have a general idea of what happens, will help you to decide the correct course for your campaign. Because players can be unintentional jerks and what is amazing at the time really messes with the future assumptions of the book and causes you hours more work.

The Mystic
2017-11-21, 10:45 PM
Kol Korran's campaign journal is what inspired me to start a thread to discuss ideas, share what I had in mind and tinker with problems that were nagging at me. There's a lot I plan to take from that journal.

Thanks for the general advice, but as I mentioned, I've read quite widely on the subject. My hope here is to discuss more specific elements.

SpamCreateWater
2017-11-22, 07:21 PM
Kol Korran's campaign journal is what inspired me to start a thread to discuss ideas, share what I had in mind and tinker with problems that were nagging at me. There's a lot I plan to take from that journal.

Thanks for the general advice, but as I mentioned, I've read quite widely on the subject. My hope here is to discuss more specific elements.

Of course, my apologies, I must have missed that part - or, more likely, read it and then got sidetracked :smalltongue:

Good luck to you and yours. I look forward to reading the fruits of your labour.