Xanathar's rangers. Do they make the non-revised ranger work?

[Rfkannen]

So I don't really know enough about it to say, but I always hear people say that the phb ranger is the weakest class in there, and that it doesn't work very well. (I don't have experience with this I have just heard people say it.)

So I was wondering, it seems like the spells and subclasses in xanathars give it a substantial buff, do you think that is enough of a buff to make the phb ranger work?

It sounds like the revised ranger isn't happening (at least in it's current form) So do you think we have enough to make a competitive ranger now?

What are your thoughts on the current state of the ranger?

[Throne12]

The phb ranger is find as is if your playing a hunter. BUUUTT the Revised ranger is just so much better. The ranger did get some sweet sweet stuff in this new book. Horizon walker it's to add some force damage to there attacks they also get misty step and haste add to there spells. The gloom stalker get there op extra attack at level 3. And the monster slayer from what I heard if is good and playable.

[Quoz]

I think the gloom stalker's level 3 abilities will be worth the dip for a number of builds. I'm looking at a ranger (gloom stalker)3 / Fighter (battle master) X pistoleer with crossbow expertise. Love the Batman/ninja fluff of invisible to darkvision, and the first turn nova of action surge + dread ambusher will end a lot of fights before they begin.

On that note, does anyone have a clarification of whether the extra d8 from dread ambusher applies to all attacks on that action or only to the extra one? and would it apply twice on an action surge? or with haste?

[Vorpalchicken]

I don't have Xanathar's yet but I was under the impression there was going to be, beyond subclasses, alternative base ranger class abilities.

[mer.c]

I don't have Xanathar's yet but I was under the impression there was going to be, beyond subclasses, alternative base ranger class abilities.

Nope. That's what a lot of the community was hoping for (a formalized, canonized, standardized, AL-legal Revised Ranger), but they tweeted a few months back that Revised Ranger wouldn't be in Xanathar's.

[rbstr]

Revised Ranger isn't in the book. But that's not news they've been saying it wouldn't be for quite a while.

Anyway, any of the new archetypes work pretty well with the PHB option. Revised is clearly stronger but, just like the Hunter was fine in the PBH, these new ones are fine too.
If your DM is letting you use revised all you need to do is add extra attack at level 5.

Also, on Dread Ambusher. It's very clear the extra damage only happens on the extra attack granted by that feature.
I'm pretty sure that you only get the one extra attack regardless of something like action surge, but I don't have the text in front of me.

[JustAMcGuffin]

All of the new ranger subclasses are pretty strong, and the ranger now has access to some pretty sweet new spells. Overall this is definitely an improvement to the phb ranger. :smallbiggrin:
What really scare me though is the revised ranger combined with the new subclasses and spells. :smalleek:

[KorvinStarmast]

All of the new ranger subclasses are pretty strong, and the ranger now has access to some pretty sweet new spells. Overall this is definitely an improvement to the phb ranger. :smallbiggrin:
What really scare me though is the revised ranger combined with the new subclasses and spells. :smalleek:
Gee. Whoever could have predicted power creep in D&D material subsequent to the core books coming out? :smallcool:

[PeteNutButter]

The new rangers all feel a little bit better than the hunter.

As for the gloom stalker. If I recall the wording is “if” you take the attack action on the first round of combat you get another attack. Does that work with action surge/haste? Well that’s going to be DM dependent. I’d say yes, but I can see how people would say no.

Basically it comes down to if you think it’s a one time trigger, even though it doesn’t specify.

[EvilAnagram]

The PHB ranger was already fine.

...at range. There wasn't a whole lot of spell support for melee rangers, and there are some new spells to address this. The archetypes themselves aren't any stronger (from what I've seen) than the options already available, but they're still quite nice, and they enable players to focus on different aspects of the class. I have a feeling that people are still going to default to Hunter, especially if they don't anticipate reaching level 13+.

[mephnick]

Ranger has always worked. Revised Ranger was arguably "needed" for BeastMaster but is major powercreep for any other subclass. Hunter and the new ones are all good at combat, RR pushes them too far IMO

[Arkhios]

I just realized that at 15th level PHB Beast Master could share Guardian of Nature with his companion! It might actually start doing more than just soak one or two hits and perish... :P

[Easy_Lee]

Base ranger is fine at early levels but sucks pretty bad at later levels, and many of the abilities are unweidly or generally useless.

Revised Ranger is overpowered in the right hands. A beast conclave kobold riding a wolf has advantage on every attack of up to five attacks per round and deals +4 damage per attack against Favored Enemies, which can include all humanoids, by level 6. His minimum DPR assuming hits against Favored Enemies is higher than a rogue's average DPR, and some of his attacks can knock the target prone. Combine this with being able to track the number, direction, and distance of Favored Enemies within several miles at will, add a wolf's movement speed and additional skills, and you have a powerful character.

Xanathar's archetypes on top of revised ranger is a contender for best class.

I suspect revised ranger will be released in time as "alternate class features," but will be nerfed.

[Rogerdodger557]

Oh abso-****ing-lutely. I've felt like paladins should have mirrored paladins a bit more, considering their similar roles(paladins are martial clerics, rangers are martial druids), and the subclasses in Xanathar's give that to me. Each of the subclasses have a list of spells known, and are just better made.

[Throne12]

I'm looking at making a melee horizon walker. I'm love what they did with Zyphra strike it one of my new fav spell.

[Naanomi]

Low levels, Rangers work OK *if* you know the kind of monsters and/or terrain you will be in; but at higher levels... a combination of lackluster and often niche spells, most campaigns moving terrain and foes types rather rapidly, and you getting abilities that other classes have had for several levels... the whole thing just feels lackluster

[Waterdeep Merch]

I'm okay with power creep that replaces weak options, so long as they don't overdo it. I realized a while ago that Monster Hunter and Hunter are basically the same thing conceptually anyway, might as well finish the job and release a working beast master under a new name (someone said pet master. Maybe also beast friend, animal pal, doggy daycare worker, martial veterinarian?). Then just add in some spells to make a melee ranger actually enjoy TWF and suddenly the revised ranger isn't needed.

I'm sort of reminded of the Charlie Brown Christmas Special. After everyone gave the ranger crap for being underwhelming, WotC surrounded it and said "...It's not a bad little class". Then they throw some decorations on it, and wham! The ranger gets to be good for two editions in a row. Progress!

[GlenSmash!]

I've had good success with a Longbow wielding PHB Hunter Ranger making liberal use of Hunter's mark, and Spike Growth. I thinke a non-revised Gloom Stalker ranger will be even better.

[RickAsWritten]

martial veterinarian?

Yes! I can now complete my long-held desire(about 37 seconds) to play as the main character from All Creatures Great and Small in DnD. Obscure Reference Power Activated. I now have a +1 to all Wisdom Saving Throws

[MeeposFire]

The PHB ranger was already fine.

...at range. There wasn't a whole lot of spell support for melee rangers, and there are some new spells to address this. The archetypes themselves aren't any stronger (from what I've seen) than the options already available, but they're still quite nice, and they enable players to focus on different aspects of the class. I have a feeling that people are still going to default to Hunter, especially if they don't anticipate reaching level 13+.

I would agree with this though I would say that melee is fine and ranged was better (and certainly better supported at the time).

However the revised ranger makes many people happier and some others upset (since they see it as too powerful). I still have problems with hunter rangers though as I still think all rangers should get evasion (at some point) and much more importantly whirlwind attack is full of suck and fail 90+% of the time and it comes at a level where you are supposed to get a significant boost in many classes.

[rigolgm]

I'm looking at making a melee horizon walker. I'm love what they did with Zyphra strike it one of my new fav spell.

Horizon Walkers already have plenty of things demanding their Bonus Action and/or Concentration (Hunter's Mark, Planar Warrior, later Haste etc). I wouldn't imagine Zephyr Strike would get used much.

[Unoriginal]

For those interested, Crawford tweeted:



The revised ranger continues to be unofficial. We plan to release an updated version of some of its features and get more feedback before making them official.

[rbstr]

Horizon Walkers already have plenty of things demanding their Bonus Action and/or Concentration (Hunter's Mark, Planar Warrior, later Haste etc). I wouldn't imagine Zephyr Strike would get used much.

Zephyr Strike is pretty clearly an alternative to Hunter's Mark depending on how you want to play it:
Zephyr Strike would save bonus actions vs. Hunter's Mark if you have multiple enemies. You don't have to move it after a kill.
It only loses 1d6 on a non-dual wielding character, but you don't have to hit a specific creature.
It has a defensive edge being immune to opp. attacks.
Advantage on an attack rocks for those GWM or SS builds.

Hunter's Mark on a dual-wield build would give you more DPR against a single target but when you don't dual wield, like with Planar Warrior, Zephyr has a lot to like.
And, sure, it might last all day if you're lucky.

But then with your GWM ranger you start using Guardian of Nature when you get level 4 spells! That's a fun one too.

[rigolgm]

Zephyr Strike is pretty clearly an alternative to Hunter's Mark depending on how you want to play it:
Zephyr Strike would save bonus actions vs. Hunter's Mark if you have multiple enemies. You don't have to move it after a kill.
It only loses 1d6 on a non-dual wielding character, but you don't have to hit a specific creature.
It has a defensive edge being immune to opp. attacks.
Advantage on an attack rocks for those GWM or SS builds.

Hunter's Mark on a dual-wield build would give you more DPR against a single target but when you don't dual wield, like with Planar Warrior, Zephyr has a lot to like.
And, sure, it might last all day if you're lucky.

I was answering their comment about Zephy Strike on a Horizon Walker. The problem with the Zephyr Strike is that, even though you can 'retain' it for one minute, you can only use its attack once per casting. And each casting costs a bonus action. So, apart from its nice movement advantage, it costs you a spell slot and a bonus action per 1D8 damage (at advantage) that it does.

Horizon Walkers want to spend almost every turn using their bonus action for their own free +1D8/2D8 attack. The advantage of Hunter's Mark is that you only need spend your bonus action to shift targets and it won't eat up your spell slots quickly. Both Hunter's Mark and Zephyr Strike are later competed-for by Haste.

I'm not saying Hunter's Mark is better than Zephyr Strike. It isn't. But Horizon Walker clashes a bit with Zephyr Strike (even down to things like, at higher levels, Horizon Walkers teleporting constantly in combat so no longer needing to evade).

Horizon Walkers really are a glorious mixture of potent-looking abilities undermined by a lot of clashing priorities. I'm running a dwarf one!

[CapnZapp]

Gee. Whoever could have predicted power creep in D&D material subsequent to the core books coming out? :smallcool:

Save your snark. It did not actually appear.

[strangebloke]

The issue with the ranger as it stands right now is that it is strong, but has some weak levels, which makes it kinda tasty from a multiclass perspective.

...But those levels are all very high, so I don't see this as being a real problem.

[Aett_Thorn]

Save your snark. It did not actually appear.

Is there a reason you decided to post on a two-month-old thread just for that?