ways to improve grapple and trip as a monk

[King of Nowhere]

As a monk, I am making my utility niche as a support disabler with anti-caster skills. Basically, I tumble around the battlefield stunning, tripping or grappling those who survived the wizard's area debuffs, especially spellcasters.

I know that to be effective at such a build I'd need to increase my effective size to get bonuses at those actions. the +4 from improved grapple/improved trip is nice, but not really much of a guarantee in an opposed roll, and since I neeed to buff my WIS any fighter type is going to have much more STR than me anyway. What I do not know is how to increase my size.

Well, except for getting a permanent enlarge person, which however would be a problem if we must go through some narrow space.

So, can you suggest me some feat or prestige class for it? I am level 6 so my build is still flexible enough. Consider that I want to keep my stunning fist DC as high as reasonably possible and I also want to keep good saving throws and generally keep a build focused at fighting casters (for backstory reasons), which means surviving spells, reaching a spellcaster through his ways to keep distance, and disable him. I'd also like to keep the monk's spell resistance, but I can give it up for some juicy enough prc. thanks.

[Eldariel]

As a monk, I am making my utility niche as a support disabler with anti-caster skills. Basically, I tumble around the battlefield stunning, tripping or grappling those who survived the wizard's area debuffs, especially spellcasters.

I know that to be effective at such a build I'd need to increase my effective size to get bonuses at those actions. the +4 from improved grapple/improved trip is nice, but not really much of a guarantee in an opposed roll, and since I neeed to buff my WIS any fighter type is going to have much more STR than me anyway. What I do not know is how to increase my size.

Well, except for getting a permanent enlarge person, which however would be a problem if we must go through some narrow space.

So, can you suggest me some feat or prestige class for it? I am level 6 so my build is still flexible enough. Consider that I want to keep my stunning fist DC as high as reasonably possible and I also want to keep good saving throws and generally keep a build focused at fighting casters (for backstory reasons), which means surviving spells, reaching a spellcaster through his ways to keep distance, and disable him. I'd also like to keep the monk's spell resistance, but I can give it up for some juicy enough prc. thanks.

Well, you need to maximize your Strength unless you plan on being Polymorphed forever. It's not optional, it's a necessity since Trip is a pure Strength-check and Grapple is a BAB+Strength check. In Grapple you'll be doing even rolls vs. martial casters like Clerics and Druids (behind on BAB vs. Cleric with Divine Power) so it's down to your Strength to Grapple them. On the plus side, your Grapple-checks deal a bunch more damage than average. Trip is a pure Strength-check so it's even more important that you put complete priority to Strength.

For size improvements, please peruse Person Man's size increasing compendium (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?127732-3-X-Increasing-Size-Effective-Size-Unarmed-Damage-Reach&p=7081777#post7081777). I'd like to highlight Polymorph (Any Object) [Arcane], Metamorphosis [Psionic], Expansion [Psionic] and Jotunbrud [Feat, Player's Guide to Faerun] (but do check with your DM that it's read as "one size larger" instead of "large" since else it doesn't work with Enlarge Person). Jotunbrud is your best bet if it's read appropriately. There's also Wolf Berserker [Unapproachable East] for a flat +4 to trip checks but it does require the ability to rage and Berserker Lodge membership, which you could potentially swing as a monastic tradition but probably not. Passive Way (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#monkVariantFightingSty les) would give you +4 to trip vs. enemies denied Dex-bonus to AC but that's generally too specific to really be worth it.

[King of Nowhere]

Well, you need to maximize your Strength unless you plan on being Polymorphed forever. It's not optional, it's a necessity since Trip is a pure Strength-check and Grapple is a BAB+Strength check. In Grapple you'll be doing even rolls vs. martial casters like Clerics and Druids (behind on BAB vs. Cleric with Divine Power) so it's down to your Strength to Grapple them. On the plus side, your Grapple-checks deal a bunch more damage than average. Trip is a pure Strength-check so it's even more important that you put complete priority to Strength.

For size improvements, please peruse Person Man's size increasing compendium (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?127732-3-X-Increasing-Size-Effective-Size-Unarmed-Damage-Reach&p=7081777#post7081777). I'd like to highlight Polymorph (Any Object) [Arcane], Metamorphosis [Psionic], Expansion [Psionic] and Jotunbrud [Feat, Player's Guide to Faerun] (but do check with your DM that it's read as "one size larger" instead of "large" since else it doesn't work with Enlarge Person). Jotunbrud is your best bet if it's read appropriately. There's also Wolf Berserker [Unapproachable East] for a flat +4 to trip checks but it does require the ability to rage and Berserker Lodge membership, which you could potentially swing as a monastic tradition but probably not. Passive Way (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#monkVariantFightingSty les) would give you +4 to trip vs. enemies denied Dex-bonus to AC but that's generally too specific to really be worth it.

Well thanks. That's less helpful than I hoped - there are very few ways available to me without buff spells, most would require very specific races - but if that's all I can get, I'll settle for it. At the level of optimization we're playing, if I can get jotunbrud and stack enlarge person with it, I'm fine. Meaning that being huge would be enough, not that I'd get -4 to size :smallcool:

[Eldariel]

Well thanks. That's less helpful than I hoped - there are very few ways available to me without buff spells, most would require very specific races - but if that's all I can get, I'll settle for it. At the level of optimization we're playing, if I can get jotunbrud and stack enlarge person with it, I'm fine. Meaning that being huge would be enough, not that I'd get -4 to size :smallcool:

There are always ways to buff stat checks, which both Trip and Grapple are (Marshal's Motivate Strength is one non-magical option and there are some Soulmelds and such that help with this available via. feats). There are also lots of ways to buff Grapple checks but sadly 95% are spells or caster stuff (off the top of my head, Octopus familiar [Stormwrack] gives +3 to Grapple checks so if you can qualify as an arcane caster with caster level 3 [doable with e.g. Magical Training and Dragonsblood Pool trick] you could pick Obtain Familiar for that). Hidden Talent [Expanded Psionics Handbook] would give you a single power and some power points; you could grab Expansion that way.

But yeah, sadly in 3.5 casters have the lion's share of everything. Thus becoming good at these tricks as a non-caster and particularly a medium BAB non-caster without Rage is gonna be really hard. A Barbarian has way more options to this end for example combined with their naturally full BAB, but of course casters have even more.

[Deadline]

There are a couple of ways to enhance grapple checks that don't require spells, per se:


Grip of Iron Psionic power
Girallon Arms Soulmeld (can be gotten with Shape Soulmeld feat)
Scorpion Claws (exotic weapon in Sandstorm that grants +4 to grapple checks)


Other than that, you've got spells. Size enlargers, Fearsome Grapple, and the like.

You might also want to look at the Scorpion's Grasp feat in Sandstorm, which is very similar to the Improved Grab monster ability.

[ShurikVch]

Goliath Liberator PrC gets Improved Trip as a bonus feat at 3rd level, and +4 to trip bigger creatures
Sanctified One (of Kord) - when you gain "Master" affiliation title, you will get +2 on trip checks

There are tactical feats in Complete Warrior:
Elusive Target (Cause Overreach)
Shock Trooper (Domino Rush)

Other feats:
Defensive Throw (Complete Warrior)
Great Throw (Oriental Adventures)
Hyena Tribe Hunter (Shining South) //[regional], required Human
Pebble Underfoot (Dragon Compendium)

If Dragon magazine stuff is OK:
Fierce Grappler PrC (#295) - 2nd-level CF allow you to grapple enemies 2 sizes bigger
Feats:
Initiate of Kord (#342) - +4 to various Str-related checks
Sweeping Trip (#343) - when you successfully trip somebody, you may trade free attack to trip somebody else (within your reach)
Tactical Advantage (#335) - add your Favored Enemy bonus to trip checks
Fighting Styles:
Broken Fist (#309): Broken Fist I allow you to count as one size bigger for trip attempts, and Broken Fist II add half of your character level to trip checks

[Hiro Quester]

One of the best ways to grapple as a monk is to also be a Druid. There is a lot of synergy between Druid and Monk (though many off us do it with a one or two-level dip in monk on a druid chassis, this can also be effective with a 6 level monk investment.

Most of your monk abilities are augmented by wildshape's natural weapons (Kung Fu Panda!). You can get many extra attacks; your unarmed strike full attack can be followed by claw, claw bite at -5 BAB, plus grab (grapple check) and rake with back claws in big cat forms --Kung Fu Panther then Kung Fu Tiger). Plus big cats get pounce for full attack after charging.

But the other reason for suggesting this is that a lot of the good wildshape forms have improved grab, which stacks with the bonus to grapple from improved grapple. They also can have massive strength. And they get large size at Druid 8.

Druid Buff spells can also augment these abilities; look at the Bite of the WereTiger and Were bear for even bigger strength boosts top of wildshape.

Plus Kelpstrand spell enables remote grappling using your wisdom and caster level, but also including your bonuses to grapple from feats.

Seriously, take a few levels of Druid, the buffs and spells augment your monk abilities in all kinds of ways.

You can even pick up a PrC that progresses both Monk and Druid. Master of the North Wind (PrC from Dragon mag 314) progresses both Monk AC bonus, unarmed damage and speed bonus, as well as progressing druid wildshape (at half progression) and druid casting.

Of course, you could just buy your friendly caster a wand of Enlarge Person.

[ShurikVch]

Powerful Wild Shape feat (Races of Stone) allow to keep benefits of Powerful Build while in Wild Shape

(Also, Wild Monk from Dragon #324 gets Wild Shape at 5th level)

[King of Nowhere]

One of the best ways to grapple as a monk is to also be a Druid. There is a lot of synergy between Druid and Monk (though many off us do it with a one or two-level dip in monk on a druid chassis, this can also be effective with a 6 level monk investment.


that would be great min-maxing wise, but it would absolutely not fit the character. Otherwise I'd have done it already.

[Eladrinblade]

wizard + wand of enlarge person
rage spell, good hope spell, fearsome grappling spell, armbands of might, stone of good luck, pale green prism ioun stone
as a monk, you may as well keep a spiked chain in your hands for the free AoO's; you don't need your hands to make unarmed strikes on your turn, and it's good to trip and disarm with

[ShurikVch]

that would be great min-maxing wise, but it would absolutely not fit the character.OK. What's the limits there:
Which sources are allowed?
At what level(s) we should aim?
Which alignments are OK?
Which races are acceptable?
How about the LA and rHD?
Which classes - besides the Monk - allowed?
How much gp we can spend there?
What's about the weapon which isn't Unarmed Strike? Natural weapons?

[emeraldstreak]

Technically, indefinite PAO as a spellcasting service is OKed in PHB.