[3.5] NPC Swordsage Help

[Thurbane]

Hey all,

Needs some fairly urgent help with an NPC (villain) for tomorrow night's game.

Character is a 1/2 Ogre Swordsage 6. He is leading a small group of Ogre "bandits".

Race, ability scores and feats are set [for DM reasons]: mainly looking for help with Maneuvers and Stances. Str 18, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 15, Cha 6; EWP: Spiked Chain, Combat Reflexes, Stand Still.

He'll mainly be there to inflict statuses and lock-down melee types with his reach, while the other ogres attack the party casters and archer (other Ogres are all standard, except for one "archer" who has a Fighter level).

Maneuvers Known: 11
Stances Known: 3
Maneuvers Readied: 6

All suggestions welcomed, but again, race, feats and abilities are set and can't be changed.

Cheers - T

[Eldariel]

Debuffer Swordsage? Definitely Strength Draining Strike [Shadow Hand], Flesh Ripper [Tiger Claw] and Devastating Throw [Setting Sun]. Add Charging Minotaur [Stone Dragon], Sudden Leap [Tiger Claw], Cloak of Deception [Shadow Hand], Shadow Jaunt [Shadow Hand], perhaps Baffling Defense/Counter Charge [Setting Sun]. Flashing Sun [Desert Wind] for when she needs to just smack someone in the face or trip a lot - could be augmented with Discipline Focus. Stances are a bit harder; Hunter's Sense is obvious but aside from that, hard to say. Island of Blades is probably useful and from 3rd level I'd say Roots of the Mountain or Pearl of Black Doubt.

[Darrin]

Hmm. Is this going to be a long-term villain or is this more of a speedbump encounter? Well, either way, you've got six readied maneuvers, so presumably you'd expect him to stick around for at least six rounds.

Some maneuvers that come to mind...

Counter Charge (Setting Sun 1): If there's a charger in the group, you can use this to "bait" him into some hostile terrain, such as a pit trap, caltrops, campfire, lava, hallucinogenic mushroom patch, etc. It boils down to either an opposed Str or Dex check, which isn't necessarily an automatic success against a pouncebarian, but could be a good way to neutralize one of the bigger meatbags for a round.

Clever Positioning (Setting Sun 2): Your chain guy has 20' reach. Position the other ogres around him, have them delay or ready their actions, and then he throws out a "Scorpion" attack a la Mortal Combat: "C'm'ere!" Target makes a Ref save vs. DC 12 + Dex modifier. If the target fails, you switch positions, and the PC gets dogpiled by the surrounding ogres.

Devastating Throw (Setting Sun 3): As with Counter Charge, make sure there is some interesting terrain like pit traps, caltrops, campfires, lava, hallucinogenic mushroom patches, etc. Throw a PC into something interesting.

Death Mark (Desert Wind 3): A mule is a large animal with 22 HP that costs 8 GP. Death Mark turns it into a 6d6 firebomb with a 20' radius. Rough it up a bit so you can take it out with a single hit, direct it to move into the middle of the PCs, and then hit it with a spiked chain to set it off. 20' reach with a 20' blast radius may put your half-ogre in the blast, but he can tumble around the fire damage with the Flame's Blessing stance (9 ranks = fire resistance 10) or increase his reach with Burning Brand (Desert Wind 2).

Cloak of Deception (Shadow Hands 2): If you want this villain to escape, then this (and/or Shadow Jaunt) might be a good way to get him out of harm's way.

You also have several counters available: Fire Riposte (Desert Wind 2), Zephyr Dance (Desert Wind 3), or Baffling Defense (Setting Sun 2). Sense Motive would be around +12, Third Eye Expose could give him another +5, so Baffling Defense could be a good "NOPE!" card against a nasty attack.

Stances:

Island of Blades (Shadow Hand 1): Looks pretty obvious for a group of bandits, although large-sized bandits versus medium-sized PCs limits the amount of flanking you can cram in.

Dance of the Spider (Shadow Hand 3): I love the idea of this guy hanging out on the ceiling, 30' above the PCs, swinging his chain down at them. I was thinking provide some low-level illumination on the ground floor, so that he can see the PCs but the top 10' of the room is in complete darkness, but any PCs with darkvision or anything bright as a torch makes the "attacking from darkness" thing moot.

Pearl of Black Doubt (Diamond Mind 3): There's a nasty trick you can use with this, have a bunch of low-level minions swing improvised or nonproficient weapons at him every round to pump up his AC to obscene levels. Whips are good for this, as they have 15' reach and don't do any damage if he has any kind of armor bonus.

[Nifft]

Flame's Blessing stance (DW 1) - "Adventurers can't catch me when I'm on fire." Pull PCs into a 3 ft. deep fire pit in the middle of the cavern.

Shadow Blade Technique (SH 1) - When you really want to hit.

Bonecrusher (SD 3) - When you want THAT GUY to die from critical hits.

-- -- --

I'd focus on either Strikes or Counters.

This NPC does not have Adaptive Style, so you will use each ability EXACTLY ONCE in the encounter, and you will probably not refresh any maneuvers.


Suggestions:
- Swap feats to use Adaptive Style, EWP: Spiked Chain, and Improved Trip.
- Two other ogres take Combat Reflexes (+ Stand Still) instead. Maybe give them reach weapons? Or don't bother, just being an ogre means 10 ft. reach.

[Mike Miller]

Flame's Blessing stance (DW 1) - "Adventurers can't catch me when I'm on fire." Pull PCs into a 3 ft. deep fire pit in the middle of the cavern.

Shadow Blade Technique (SH 1) - When you really want to hit.

Bonecrusher (SD 3) - When you want THAT GUY to die from critical hits.

-- -- --

I'd focus on either Strikes or Counters.

This NPC does not have Adaptive Style, so you will use each ability EXACTLY ONCE in the encounter, and you will probably not refresh any maneuvers.


Suggestions:
- Swap feats to use Adaptive Style, EWP: Spiked Chain, and Improved Trip.
- Two other ogres take Combat Reflexes (+ Stand Still) instead. Maybe give them reach weapons? Or don't bother, just being an ogre means 10 ft. reach.

Adaptive Style doesn't actually do what a lot of people claim it does. If you reread it, you will realize it doesn't help refresh anything. Here (https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/34740/does-adaptive-style-really-let-you-recover-expended-maneuvers)is an in-depth look at the feat and why it isn't the must-have feat for swordsages that people claim it is.

As for Thurbanes request, I would think to some extent it depends on what you want from the villain. If you want him to survive and get away, maybe focus on counters and boosts. If you want him to put up a good fight but still lose, focus more on strikes.

[Nifft]

Adaptive Style doesn't actually do what a lot of people claim it does. If you reread it, you will realize it doesn't help refresh anything. Here (https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/34740/does-adaptive-style-really-let-you-recover-expended-maneuvers)is an in-depth look at the feat


https://i.imgur.com/x8xKZun.png


So basically... you're wrong, and you provided a link which explains in detail why you are wrong.

Adaptive Style does work the way everyone thinks it works.

Swordsages are not screwed horribly.

Everybody celebrates!

[Thurbane]

Thanks everyone for the advice so far.


As for Thurbanes request, I would think to some extent it depends on what you want from the villain. If you want him to survive and get away, maybe focus on counters and boosts. If you want him to put up a good fight but still lose, focus more on strikes.

Not looking for the villain to escape, mainly just to put up a good fight, and not be a pushover.

[Mike Miller]

https://i.imgur.com/x8xKZun.png


So basically... you're wrong, and you provided a link which explains in detail why you are wrong.

Adaptive Style does work the way everyone thinks it works.

Swordsages are not screwed horribly.

Everybody celebrates!

If you read the post below that, it does a far better job of explaining the reason why I posted the link. You just read the first reply. Just because more people found the first answer more to their liking, doesn't mean it is accurate. In any event...

SS 6 will know 5/3/2 maneuvers (level 1/2/3). I would give the villain: 1: Burning Blade, Clinging Shadow Strike, Counter Charge, Moment of Perfect Mind, Shadow Blade Technique /2: Burning Brand, Clever Positioning, Fire Riposte /3: Devastating throw, Bonecrusher

Then you can decide what to ready based on the party. Or do some shifty DM stuff and not have anything readied and just use a total of 5/3/2 maneuvers as you'd like. (If it was me I would select a set to ready, but hey, whatever is easier, right? The DM has enough to do)

A sample to have readied: 1: Counter Charge (if you have chargers) OR Moment of Perfect Mind (if you want to help out his will save by boosting his Concentration check), 2: Burning Brand (for extra reach), Clever Positioning (for positioning...), Fire Riposte (for an extra attack), 3: Devastating throw (to get that pesky PC in a more advantageous location), and Bonecrusher (for damage)

[Hellpyre]

If you read the post below that, it does a far better job of explaining the reason why I posted the link. You just read the first reply. Just because more people found the first answer more to their liking, doesn't mean it is accurate.
H


Having read it, the second answer makes a lot more assumptions than the first, and so I'd be disinclined to give it greater weight. Either way, the NPC is unlikely to have time sitting around to spend a full round meditating if it wants to do a good job of being threatening (probably - we don't really know the party composition for the PCs).

I'd recommend either focusing on having a more martial or more supernatural paradigm for the Swordsage so that the PCs don't waste time thinking it's a different type of encounter. Either come in hard with the SH and DW style techniques to lay down some exotic damage for the ogre with a big weapon, or go for a focus blademaster thing with Diamond Mind stances and strikes and Setting Sun counters.

[Thurbane]

Having read it, the second answer makes a lot more assumptions than the first, and so I'd be disinclined to give it greater weight. Either way, the NPC is unlikely to have time sitting around to spend a full round meditating if it wants to do a good job of being threatening (probably - we don't really know the party composition for the PCs).

I'd be quite surprised if the encounter lasted long enough for the NPC to use all of his readied Maneuvers.

[Nifft]

I'd be quite surprised if the encounter lasted long enough for the NPC to use all of his readied Maneuvers.

Then pick more Counters. :)