Building first 5e Wizard

[Hyperversum]

So guys, hi there!

I'm a quite experienced player but not in 5e. And no, I'm not here to ask about uber-super optimization, just some questions because I'm gonna play with some people who are used to this edition (I'm a 3.5 player, mostly) and so I don't want to make 'em lose time. Also, I love building my PCs way before the first session. So... My character is gonna be a simple human wizard, in his 40s, ex-professor in a setting heavily based on the history of Italy in the 1500/1550, from the, as my DM said, "absolutely not Venice-based city". So I wanted him to be a pretty charismatic dude, just for RP. You know, the high-society kind of intellectual. So it's absolutely out of question using BGs like Charlatan or Urchin to get CHA-based skills. I was thinking to use Sage, but even Noble could work.

My DM allows Human Variant, but he is thinking about giving also to the standard human a bonus skill (so, in both cased, I can get my Persuasion) since Variant is way stronger, generally speaking.

My scores are: 10 - 11 - 12 - 12 - 15 - 15. Obviously I'm gonna get a 15 Int and a 15 Con, just to remain alive. I'm allowed to take away 2 points from a stats to add one to another, just once obviously.
Therefore... questions.

1) Negative Scores. Are they THAT bad? In my ol' games, having a 8, even 6, Strength Wizard wasn't a problem. But here there is the Str-based ST. Generally, I don't expect my wizard to tank a shove action from an enemy (or a companion while arguing) but there are some nasty effects that requires to have... well, at least a 0? I ask this because I wanted to make my Str 8 and get a 13 in Charisma, which would be upgraded to 14 with the +1 from Human (the other is obviously used on Int to reach 16). But, as from title.... is negative Str that bad? I don't know to be honest.

2) Feat. I was thinking about getting Resilient on Con, in order to make it 16 and getting the bonus on CON ST, in particular for... well, concentration obviously.
But there is also the option of getting Alert (i Hate having low initiative) or War Caster for the advantage on concentration check, which is probably even better than the proficiency. I seriously can't get what is optimal in this aspect.

3) Low levels strategies
For design, I want to focus on a supporting role (my PCs should be one that doesn't like dirtying his hands, so I'm not gonna pick low levels blast a part for a regular Fire Bolt for personal defense), and apart from picking everything that is ritual and obvious win-spells like Sleep or Grease I haven't seen any "very good" option for ground control. I don't speak about non-concentration spells, since it's a thing that we have to play with and may be a very good idea from a balancing POV, but spells that can really do something.
I mean, ok, Fog Cloud is cool for some cover or annoying ranged enemies, but they can just walk through it with no side effect. My first wizard (and first PC) in 3.5 used a lot Smoke Wall to cover the team, but fog cloud has no side effect.

Casting Grease inside it (making movement dangerous, in particular since they are supposed to don't know where they are going) is a tactic but... just wipes out my 2 slots for a single combo, and after it we have to do a short rest or I can just blast some d10s And not even that effective since it looks like CDs can't be upgraded from your standard in any way, and for what I can see the ST are more than ever based on the luck in the roll.

4) School
I was gonna get Diviner because Portent rocks for my idea and because I liked the "I-see-things-before-entering-the-ruins" archaeologist that should be my PC. But also Abjuration seems good, since it's also this based on the "supporting caster" role. And the Trasmuter's Stone is really interesting. In general, all schools (in particular Illusion and Divination, and somehow Conj) looked suited for a support caster who tries to focus on ground control. Can't decide which is the best since I have no real preference about it.


So... some suggestion about these things?
I wanted to try a Buffing/GC wizard after playing for 2 years my dear necromancer who just kicked everything with tons of debuffs.

[Knaight]

Negatives aren't a big deal at all, provided that they're on less important stats. The concept of the dump stat is still in full effect.

[Crgaston]

Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on the system. A couple of things to think about... Wisdom skills and saves are vital. On a wizard, I’d have Wis as my 2nd or 3rd stat for sure. As for background, take a look at Acolyte for the two bonus languages (you worked in the library) or Guild Artisan for the Insight and Persuasion skills (you could be a calligrapher or mapmaker, or rare book seller for instance).

For a feat, give Observant a close look.


A 1 or 2 level dip in knowledge cleric would fit your backstory as well as provide some awesome abilities... 3 extra cantrips, expertise in 2 Int skills, Command and Identify prepared for free, etc.

Oh, and the diviners portent ability is great fun at the table. Evoker is generally not well regarded, but being able to drop AOE and CC spells without affecting your allies is pretty dope.

[Hyperversum]

Negatives aren't a big deal at all, provided that they're on less important stats. The concept of the dump stat is still in full effect.

Love to hear this.


Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on the system. A couple of things to think about... Wisdom skills and saves are vital. On a wizard, I’d have Wis as my 2nd or 3rd stat for sure. As for background, take a look at Acolyte for the two bonus languages (you worked in the library) or Guild Artisan for the Insight and Persuasion skills (you could be a calligrapher or mapmaker, or rare book seller for instance).

For a feat, give Observant a close look.


A 1 or 2 level dip in knowledge cleric would fit your backstory as well as provide some awesome abilities... 3 extra cantrips, expertise in 2 Int skills, Command and Identify prepared for free, etc.

Oh, and the diviners portent ability is great fun at the table. Evoker is generally not well regarded, but being able to drop AOE and CC spells without affecting your allies is pretty dope.

The problem with this is... well, I could consider Acolyte, but Sage gives me already some languages and Sage gives Arcana and History (autopick imo) and so I can take and Insight and then consider for the last two other skills. One of them being free since it's from Human.

The problem with the dip is... how I would do it since it's from level 1? I mean, RP the first level of Cleric out of nothing would be probably heavy. If this was 3.5, I would take Archivist any day but...sigh.
Also, are those extra cantrips and skills worth the slower level up in normal spells? Reaching 3rd Tier at level 6 could be pretty heavy. I never liked Sorcerer and co in the ol' days after all.

And as last thing... what about the ward? On the book, it looks awsome. Free tanking, easy recharge of the skill (between Shield and Mage Armor) and a better "scaling" of it (from level 6 I can use it on the party, while the third portent is a high level ability, even if the ability to cast high level Divination and recover a slot under it... it's juicy.

[Crgaston]

I didn’t realize sage gave the languages also, so obviously that’s more in line with your concept. RP wise, especially with just one level of a Knowledge cleric, I’d just fluff it as part of your magical training. The “2 skills with expertise” is huge by itself. Double your cantrips, and the versatility of being able to prepare any 1st level cleric spell AND upcast them if desired, plus full slot progression (you’ll be one level behind on gaining new Wiz spell levels) AND armor/shield proficiency... totally worth it to me. Ymmv.

I haven’t seen an Abjurer in play, but it does look good on paper for sure.

[Willie the Duck]

Evoker is generally not well regarded, but being able to drop AOE and CC spells without affecting your allies is pretty dope.


I haven’t seen an Abjurer in play, but it does look good on paper for sure.

Honestly, evoker is my third choice after diviner and abjurer. Evokers are like Champions for fighters-they are supposedly underperforming, but actually do fine in that they are straightforward and their abilities get out of the way and allow you to concentrate on what you otherwise would be doing. Evoker-- you can drop area effect damage on the front line without hurting your allies. No thinking involved. Now get back to your character backstory and whatnot.

Abjurer is great for a party or play-style where the wizard has a hard time keeping out the enemies' targeting. So small groups, groups without sticky front-liners, campaigns where you never know when the dinner party is going to turn into assassination attempts, whatever. It works best with a wizard with an already decent AC (such that you are actually going to be casting shield or the equivalent a bit). If you roll for stats and get a 16+ (such that you don't want to choose a race with an Int bonus), my favorite evoker is a mountain dwarf--Dex 14 and half plate is a 17 AC (or take heavily armored feat at level 4 and justify your strength bonus and AC 18), which boosts to 22 with shield, which means you might actually survive someone reaching you, such that temp hp will actually matter.

If your rolls are 10 - 11 - 12 - 12 - 15 - 15 and you are set on human (and not variant human), I would go with 11/16/13/16/13/13. Pick up resilient:con at 4th to get to 14, then pick up +2 Int or +1 wis/+1 cha or war caster at 8th. It depends on how many concentration spells you want to keep up (and how often you think you will be targeted).

[SirGraystone]

Having good constitution does help for concentration checks but not getting hit is even better, I would go for dexterity over constitution for better AC and initiative. Also think about having the shield spell and keeping free slot for it for protection. How good is concentration also depend how many of your spell do need concentration of course.

[Hyperversum]

I didn’t realize sage gave the languages also, so obviously that’s more in line with your concept. RP wise, especially with just one level of a Knowledge cleric, I’d just fluff it as part of your magical training. The “2 skills with expertise” is huge by itself. Double your cantrips, and the versatility of being able to prepare any 1st level cleric spell AND upcast them if desired, plus full slot progression (you’ll be one level behind on gaining new Wiz spell levels) AND armor/shield proficiency... totally worth it to me. Ymmv.

I haven’t seen an Abjurer in play, but it does look good on paper for sure.

I can't read it right now, but a cleric of knowledge one, doesn't anymore requires the huge faith a cleric is supposed to be?
It's an heavy RP burden imo, for what it gives. But as I said, I can't read it now.


Honestly, evoker is my third choice after diviner and abjurer. Evokers are like Champions for fighters-they are supposedly underperforming, but actually do fine in that they are straightforward and their abilities get out of the way and allow you to concentrate on what you otherwise would be doing. Evoker-- you can drop area effect damage on the front line without hurting your allies. No thinking involved. Now get back to your character backstory and whatnot.

Abjurer is great for a party or play-style where the wizard has a hard time keeping out the enemies' targeting. So small groups, groups without sticky front-liners, campaigns where you never know when the dinner party is going to turn into assassination attempts, whatever. It works best with a wizard with an already decent AC (such that you are actually going to be casting shield or the equivalent a bit). If you roll for stats and get a 16+ (such that you don't want to choose a race with an Int bonus), my favorite evoker is a mountain dwarf--Dex 14 and half plate is a 17 AC (or take heavily armored feat at level 4 and justify your strength bonus and AC 18), which boosts to 22 with shield, which means you might actually survive someone reaching you, such that temp hp will actually matter.

If your rolls are 10 - 11 - 12 - 12 - 15 - 15 and you are set on human (and not variant human), I would go with 11/16/13/16/13/13. Pick up resilient:con at 4th to get to 14, then pick up +2 Int or +1 wis/+1 cha or war caster at 8th. It depends on how many concentration spells you want to keep up (and how often you think you will be targeted).

I was more towards the idea of getting a decent Con (aka, 15+1 at level one, may the +1 come from Resilient or from Variant Human) in order to boost HP and ST on it. Having a low Dexterity (+1) hurts me indeed but... would a 15+1 worth it for +2 to Iniative and a basic 13 CA? Considering that from level 2 I would ALWAYS cast Mage Armor and therefore going to 16?
I don't know how the damage/attack rolls are in this edition, generally I preferred to have decent HPs on my caster, because anyway I would get hit no matter what lol.


Having good constitution does help for concentration checks but not getting hit is even better, I would go for dexterity over constitution for better AC and initiative. Also think about having the shield spell and keeping free slot for it for protection. How good is concentration also depend how many of your spell do need concentration of course.

As I said above, dunno about AC and Iniative. I mean, at level 1 having 7 or 9 hp isn't THAT much a big deal, the problems come after it, when, for example, at level 5 I could have 37 hp Vs 26 hp. That's a good 9 hp, a full hit from a d6-based attack.

[samcifer]

I was thinking of creating a wizard as a backup for my homebrewed campaign if my divine soul/hexblade died, but then I realized that the nature of the campaign makes it so that unarmored characters with no strength have a 0% chance of surviving. The mc character has already nearly died three times already. :(

[Hyperversum]

I was thinking of creating a wizard as a backup for my homebrewed campaign if my divine soul/hexblade died, but then I realized that the nature of the campaign makes it so that unarmored characters with no strength have a 0% chance of surviving. The mc character has already nearly died three times already. :(

Well, such a thing is either bad DMing to the core or really 5e is hard on damages lol

[samcifer]

Well, such a thing is either bad DMing to the core or really 5e is hard on damages lol

It's the environment. An island with t-rexes and undead horrors, including a zombie t-rex that had lesser undead growing on it like some body-horror kind of deal we reached at lv. 3 (we started at lv. 1 in training to prepare) and the ocean around it is filled with sharkmen with poisoned weapons. Two main npcs died already (one in a botched roll during a trial of punishment, then our npc leader who got the zombie plague and we had to kill him.) The dm lets the luck of the roll dictate how everything turns out and it was possible while at sea on the way to the island the leader died and we could do whatever we want, even abandon the main quest to become pirates on the high seas if we wanted. He's used to side quests dominating his campaigns.

[Willie the Duck]

I was more towards the idea of getting a decent Con (aka, 15+1 at level one, may the +1 come from Resilient or from Variant Human) in order to boost HP and ST on it. Having a low Dexterity (+1) hurts me indeed but... would a 15+1 worth it for +2 to Iniative and a basic 13 CA? Considering that from level 2 I would ALWAYS cast Mage Armor and therefore going to 16?
I don't know how the damage/attack rolls are in this edition, generally I preferred to have decent HPs on my caster, because anyway I would get hit no matter what lol.

Well, If you go Con, you will could go Human 11/13/16/16/12/13, then pick up resilient:Con, then +1Dex/+1 Con, and warcaster, +2 Int, and.. hmmm. you never get your cha above 14. Maybe Vuman and go 10/12/15/16/11/12 and then go resilient Con (at 1st, so really 16), and then war caster, +2 Int, +2 Int, +2 Cha or Dex, then the other. Hmmm. Yeah, with your stats it is tough to have a good AC, good hp, war caster, good saves, and a high charisma.

Mind you, your stats are not bad. If you were to get them in point buy, they'd be 4 points over the norm. 5e is really set up to make sure everything really does have an opportunity cost (although, as has been mentioned, there are mostly-dump stats for most classes). I would definitely take the onetime -2 (to strength, and to Cha or Int, depending upon your wants).

As to the relative value of Con to Dex for wizards. There is no AC that is so low that a 1-pt difference is pointless, so Mage Armor + 12 Dex is genuinely << Mage Armor + 16 Dex, and shield is a different beast when used by each of these (and for the high-elf Dex 20 or mountain dwarf armor-wearer). Same is true for Con 12-14 and Con 16-20. Secondary to the standard hp factor is this: Higher Con means you can pass more concentration checks, while higher AC means that you have to roll for fewer to begin with. There really is no one right answer.

I will say, if you are more scared of bad saving throws or failing a desperately-needed-to-pass concentration check, diviners are better, while if you are more scared of accidentally ending up in melee, abjurers are a better bet.

[Hyperversum]

It's the environment. An island with t-rexes and undead horrors, including a zombie t-rex that had lesser undead growing on it like some body-horror kind of deal we reached at lv. 3 (we started at lv. 1 in training to prepare) and the ocean around it is filled with sharkmen with poisoned weapons. Two main npcs died already (one in a botched roll during a trial of punishment, then our npc leader who got the zombie plague and we had to kill him.) The dm lets the luck of the roll dictate how everything turns out and it was possible while at sea on the way to the island the leader died and we could do whatever we want, even abandon the main quest to become pirates on the high seas if we wanted. He's used to side quests dominating his campaigns.

Then it's the setting. There, I would I play something with big ass AC, HP and that cast in any case ahhahaahah!


Well, If you go Con, you will could go Human 11/13/16/16/12/13, then pick up resilient:Con, then +1Dex/+1 Con, and warcaster, +2 Int, and.. hmmm. you never get your cha above 14. Maybe Vuman and go 10/12/15/16/11/12 and then go resilient Con (at 1st, so really 16), and then war caster, +2 Int, +2 Int, +2 Cha or Dex, then the other. Hmmm. Yeah, with your stats it is tough to have a good AC, good hp, war caster, good saves, and a high charisma.

Mind you, your stats are not bad. If you were to get them in point buy, they'd be 4 points over the norm. 5e is really set up to make sure everything really does have an opportunity cost (although, as has been mentioned, there are mostly-dump stats for most classes). I would definitely take the onetime -2 (to strength, and to Cha or Int, depending upon your wants).

As to the relative value of Con to Dex for wizards. There is no AC that is so low that a 1-pt difference is pointless, so Mage Armor + 12 Dex is genuinely << Mage Armor + 16 Dex, and shield is a different beast when used by each of these (and for the high-elf Dex 20 or mountain dwarf armor-wearer). Same is true for Con 12-14 and Con 16-20. Secondary to the standard hp factor is this: Higher Con means you can pass more concentration checks, while higher AC means that you have to roll for fewer to begin with. There really is no one right answer.

I will say, if you are more scared of bad saving throws or failing a desperately-needed-to-pass concentration check, diviners are better, while if you are more scared of accidentally ending up in melee, abjurers are a better bet.

Right now, the stats on the sheet1 look like this: 10 - 12 - 15 - 15+1 - 11 - 12.
My last thought was then to make that 10 a 8, give a +1 to either WIS (making it 12, getting +1 in related abilities) or giving it to CON (making it a straight 16) and using the feat for War Caster (at low levels, it's better having advantage than a +2).

Speaking with a friend in the party he argued that maybe only a +1 to HP could work better if the second 16 was on Dexterity. In this way, I could cover a Save that will never be increased (AoE spells are always nasty), getting more Intiative and AC. With this, I would leave the 11 on CHA (I would still get myself Deception probably)/WIS and put the "+1 extra" on a 12, in order to make it 13, put it on CON and later 14 with Resilient, in this way I would take War Caster only way later.

At the end everything remains on what I think I will find my ass in (less attacks on me=better big CON, to not risk much. More attack on my poor wizard = Dex)

[FirstBornSon]

1 Play smart, wizards should not be on the fort line. Of course spells can take you out if you have low wis ( hold person). Shield spell is a must bmo. 2 i would take warcaster 3 divination is the best, but most important is spell selection. If you are ok with not taking credit then feary fire, prot from evil and similar spells are your brad and butter. When you get haste you will be king of the hill. Take rituals. Best thing and only a wizard can do is cast rituals without preparing. Exploit it. Take hut at 5th lvl so you can rip.

[Hyperversum]

1 Play smart, wizards should not be on the fort line. Of course spells can take you out if you have low wis ( hold person). Shield spell is a must bmo. 2 i would take warcaster 3 divination is the best, but most important is spell selection. If you are ok with not taking credit then feary fire, prot from evil and similar spells are your brad and butter. When you get haste you will be king of the hill. Take rituals. Best thing and only a wizard can do is cast rituals without preparing. Exploit it. Take hut at 5th lvl so you can rip.

I am professional in not getting it with my casters but you, sometimes the world is hard and you risk some damages ahahah!

Anyway, Feary Fire isn't only druid?

[lunaticfringe]

I am professional in not getting it with my casters but you, sometimes the world is hard and you risk some damages ahahah!

Anyway, Feary Fire isn't only druid?

Druid, Bard, Fey Warlock. Maybe a few other places. It's not a Wizard spell, you are correct.

[sithlordnergal]

So, in the terms of support casters Divination Wizards are the best options. Yes, Abjuration has the extra hp, and you can give a person that protection eventually. But honestly, it doesn't hold a candle to being able to roll 2d20 every day and replacing any roll with one of those.

Do you need that baddie to fail your spell? Give them that 2 you rolled. Did you roll a nat 20? Save that for the paladin, when you wanna hurt a guy. Does your ally need to make a save or die? Give him that save!

[Longman]

I played a Diviner and the ability to roll 2d20 and apply them to any roll was fun. However, some of the key spells (Identify, Clairvoyance) are really expensive.

If it was me I'd go standard human, put the 16s on Dex and Int, and have a higher AC rather than worrying about high con.

[stoutstien]

I'd be careful about dropping your strength below 10 if your DM likes to use environmental hazards at all such as gaps to jump or Ledges to jump up and grab, But at later level it's not a big issue. Pg 182 PH. So 10 str = 2 grid squares .

[Puh Laden]

Note: Unless your DM takes the rule out, you can mix and match your backgrounds to your liking by default. This is the formula:

1 Background Feature
2 Skill proficiencies
2 Tool proficiencies, or 2 languages, or 1 tool proficiency and 1 language

Personality trait, ideal, bond, and flaw can also be mix-and-matched, or you can create your own IIRC.

[SharkForce]

you can dump attributes, but i generally don't recommend dumping strength more than you need to. it's useful to have decent strength; it determines your jump distance, it governs your athletics checks (swimming and climbing as well as jumping), carry capacity (you may need to help haul someone's unconcious body), and saving throws and ability checks. so, for example, if you want to get out of a web spell... strength check.

if you have something that you really want in mind for that extra attribute point, go ahead, but there will still be drawbacks.

[LeonBH]

My scores are: 10 - 11 - 12 - 12 - 15 - 15. Obviously I'm gonna get a 15 Int and a 15 Con, just to remain alive. I'm allowed to take away 2 points from a stats to add one to another, just once obviously.
Therefore... questions.

1) Negative Scores. Are they THAT bad?

2) Feat. I was thinking about getting Resilient on Con, in order to make it 16 and getting the bonus on CON ST, in particular for... well, concentration obviously.
But there is also the option of getting Alert (i Hate having low initiative) or War Caster for the advantage on concentration check, which is probably even better than the proficiency. I seriously can't get what is optimal in this aspect.

3) Low levels strategies
For design, I want to focus on a supporting role (my PCs should be one that doesn't like dirtying his hands, so I'm not gonna pick low levels blast a part for a regular Fire Bolt for personal defense), and apart from picking everything that is ritual and obvious win-spells like Sleep or Grease I haven't seen any "very good" option for ground control. I don't speak about non-concentration spells, since it's a thing that we have to play with and may be a very good idea from a balancing POV, but spells that can really do something.
I mean, ok, Fog Cloud is cool for some cover or annoying ranged enemies, but they can just walk through it with no side effect. My first wizard (and first PC) in 3.5 used a lot Smoke Wall to cover the team, but fog cloud has no side effect.

Casting Grease inside it (making movement dangerous, in particular since they are supposed to don't know where they are going) is a tactic but... just wipes out my 2 slots for a single combo, and after it we have to do a short rest or I can just blast some d10s And not even that effective since it looks like CDs can't be upgraded from your standard in any way, and for what I can see the ST are more than ever based on the luck in the roll.

4) School
I was gonna get Diviner because Portent rocks for my idea and because I liked the "I-see-things-before-entering-the-ruins" archaeologist that should be my PC. But also Abjuration seems good, since it's also this based on the "supporting caster" role. And the Trasmuter's Stone is really interesting. In general, all schools (in particular Illusion and Divination, and somehow Conj) looked suited for a support caster who tries to focus on ground control. Can't decide which is the best since I have no real preference about it.

0: I would actually advise you to put that 15 in Dex instead of Con. Dex lets you dodge things better so that you don't have to make a Concentration save in the first place. Prevention is better than cure.

1: No, they're not THAT bad. But they can be bad for some key stats. Depending on the skills the DM likes to call, a low Stealth check can result in something awful. You might miss something cool if your Perception was low enough.

2: War Caster is for a gish build, for when you're sure you will be making Concentration saves frequently. This is really good at low levels for front line casters when they have to maintain concentration after every hit. But for a support caster, you should be doing your best to avoid those hits in the first place.

Between Alert and Resilient (Dex), I think Resilient (Dex) is the better choice. Starting with a 16 Dex is really good for a Wizard. You can work around low initiative via other means. And a +3 to your initiative from a high dex is not that bad compared to a +6 from Alert and 12 Dex.

3: Take Mage Armor. If you went with a 16 Dex, that brings your AC to 13 + 3 with Mage Armor. Take Shield. That brings your AC up to 21 for a turn.

As for control spells, don't forget your cantrips. These are your bread and butter at low levels. Use Ray of Frost to slow enemies down. If you're in melee, use Shocking Grasp to deal damage and deny someone their reaction. Infestation (Xanathar's Guide) is really powerful for a cantrip and a control spell, so take it too.

A good attack/control spell is Cause Fear from Xanathar's Guide. It imposes the Frightened condition on someone for 1 minute. There is only one save for this, and if they fail, they get disadvantage on all attack rolls and ability checks for 1 minute.

4: All Wizards are powerful, so it doesn't matter which school you choose. I'd recommend Divination for Portent. It's the most front-loaded of all Wizard schools and it's also the coolest (in my opinion).

[Hyperversum]

So, in the terms of support casters Divination Wizards are the best options. Yes, Abjuration has the extra hp, and you can give a person that protection eventually. But honestly, it doesn't hold a candle to being able to roll 2d20 every day and replacing any roll with one of those.

Do you need that baddie to fail your spell? Give them that 2 you rolled. Did you roll a nat 20? Save that for the paladin, when you wanna hurt a guy. Does your ally need to make a save or die? Give him that save!

That's why it was my first idea. Hell, it's not only useful, it's damn fun. It's literally putting the plot in the direction I want. Some baddies can just decide to pass a check but hella, it's anyway a forced usage of that really rare power.


I played a Diviner and the ability to roll 2d20 and apply them to any roll was fun. However, some of the key spells (Identify, Clairvoyance) are really expensive.

If it was me I'd go standard human, put the 16s on Dex and Int, and have a higher AC rather than worrying about high con.

My main doubt is that indeed. I mean, there aren't many spells and some are situational, so I wouldn't get much from the "recover slot" effect you get at level 6. It's nice, but not a "always used" ability, like the ward of the Abjurer or the various ability of the illusionist would be. My question is basically: "Is Portent worth it?"


Note: Unless your DM takes the rule out, you can mix and match your backgrounds to your liking by default. This is the formula:

1 Background Feature
2 Skill proficiencies
2 Tool proficiencies, or 2 languages, or 1 tool proficiency and 1 language

Personality trait, ideal, bond, and flaw can also be mix-and-matched, or you can create your own IIRC.

If not many languages are gonna be useful (I mean, the territory we will play in are mostly human, with elves far away if not for a small presence of High Elf in a fortress city in complete Gray Elves flavour) I could think about a tool. They are always useful I guess.


0: I would actually advise you to put that 15 in Dex instead of Con. Dex lets you dodge things better so that you don't have to make a Concentration save in the first place. Prevention is better than cure.

1: No, they're not THAT bad. But they can be bad for some key stats. Depending on the skills the DM likes to call, a low Stealth check can result in something awful. You might miss something cool if your Perception was low enough.

2: War Caster is for a gish build, for when you're sure you will be making Concentration saves frequently. This is really good at low levels for front line casters when they have to maintain concentration after every hit. But for a support caster, you should be doing your best to avoid those hits in the first place.

Between Alert and Resilient (Dex), I think Resilient (Dex) is the better choice. Starting with a 16 Dex is really good for a Wizard. You can work around low initiative via other means. And a +3 to your initiative from a high dex is not that bad compared to a +6 from Alert and 12 Dex.

3: Take Mage Armor. If you went with a 16 Dex, that brings your AC to 13 + 3 with Mage Armor. Take Shield. That brings your AC up to 21 for a turn.

As for control spells, don't forget your cantrips. These are your bread and butter at low levels. Use Ray of Frost to slow enemies down. If you're in melee, use Shocking Grasp to deal damage and deny someone their reaction. Infestation (Xanathar's Guide) is really powerful for a cantrip and a control spell, so take it too.

A good attack/control spell is Cause Fear from Xanathar's Guide. It imposes the Frightened condition on someone for 1 minute. There is only one save for this, and if they fail, they get disadvantage on all attack rolls and ability checks for 1 minute.

4: All Wizards are powerful, so it doesn't matter which school you choose. I'd recommend Divination for Portent. It's the most front-loaded of all Wizard schools and it's also the coolest (in my opinion).

Thank you for your complete answer!
I'm gonna consider getting DEX then, since a lot of people suggested it over CON. I'm gonna get a 14 in CON anyway, but starting with higher Dex seems more present as a suggestion.

My only "fear" is about losing that one important spell for an arrow or something like that.

Only one thing...about point 3:
damaging cantrip seems a huge usage of resources. Cantrips are, for how I read the PHB, also the general source of costant magical effect. Mage Hand is a must in my opinion most of the time, and the ability to cast at will Minor Illusion seems HUGE. In particular since they have to "spend one action to understand if the illusion is real or not".
Against other spellcasters isn't easy, but at low levels, "Summoning" a brick wall in front of me could be an option to waste an enemy action, and dumb creatures are likely to fail a Int. A random Orc would need to roll a 15 to surpass it.

I am gonna pick a damaging cantrip for sure (probably Fire Bolt, mostly because Fire as an element rules and because of the better range) for sure, but not THREE. It's my reasoning wrong?

[Willie the Duck]

I am gonna pick a damaging cantrip for sure (probably Fire Bolt, mostly because Fire as an element rules and because of the better range) for sure, but not THREE. It's my reasoning wrong?

It depends upon how you (and your DM) play.

Minor illusion can be awesome, but a DM can also nerf it quickly ('only objects!,' 'why would an orc care that a crate or a turkey dinner just appeared over there, he still attacks you,' '5-foot-square means you just created a small section of wall, which the bandit just moves around,' etc.).

Combat cantrips are more known quantities, so plenty of people prefer them, and each one has a benefit and limitation (so ya gotta collect them all! There's even a class for that, called Tome Warlock)

I wouldn't pick up 3 combat cantrips, but I can see taking (for instance) firebolt for good long-range zapping and shocking grasp to help you get out of dodge when the front line comes to you.

[samcifer]

It depends upon how you (and your DM) play.

Minor illusion can be awesome, but a DM can also nerf it quickly ('only objects!,' 'why would an orc care that a crate or a turkey dinner just appeared over there, he still attacks you,' '5-foot-square means you just created a small section of wall, which the bandit just moves around,' etc.).

Combat cantrips are more known quantities, so plenty of people prefer them, and each one has a benefit and limitation (so ya gotta collect them all! There's even a class for that, called Tome Warlock)

I wouldn't pick up 3 combat cantrips, but I can see taking (for instance) firebolt for good long-range zapping and shocking grasp to help you get out of dodge when the front line comes to you.

Non-damage cantrips can be fun to use with the right amount of creativity and it doesn't have to be yours. As a perfect example, during our last session, two t-rexes appeared and I cast Minor Illusion to create a boulder between us and them, but they were navigating my scent. Then, figuring they were mates, the barbarian player said. "Put a bow on the smaller one!" to me. Shrugging at the absurdity of it, I did as requested and the bigger dino tried to claw the bow off the head of the smaller one and gouged his eye as well as doing damage. (the big one was the female, btw). It was ridiculous, but oddly effective for distracting them both for a moment. Pity we didn't get a chance to escape in that moment. :(

[lunaticfringe]

My main doubt is that indeed. I mean, there aren't many spells and some are situational, so I wouldn't get much from the "recover slot" effect you get at level 6. It's nice, but not a "always used" ability, like the ward of the Abjurer or the various ability of the illusionist would be. My question is basically: "Is Portent worth it?

In Xanathar's Guide, the new supplement, there is Mind Spike a level 2 divination attack spell. Which I think is specifically for Diviner's L6 ability. The level of a spell is the Level of the Slot used to cast it. It's an S component only spell too so it works in a Silence Bubble.

Might see if a fellow player has the book to check it out.

[Joe dirt]

If u go diviner u get basically 2 rerolls per day at level 2. Why not max this ability with the lucky feat and become the luckiest man in the world! I know u dont want a background that is Rogue like but I would modify one skill in ur background to incorporate a gaming set so u can use ur luck for side money while ur in the tavern. And I would take spells that are save or vaccum type spells.

[samcifer]

In Xanathar's Guide, the new supplement, there is Mind Spike a level 2 divination attack spell. Which I think is specifically for Diviner's L6 ability. The level of a spell is the Level of the Slot used to cast it. It's an S component only spell too so it works in a Silence Bubble.

Might see if a fellow player has the book to check it out.

*summarized to avoid copywrite issues*

Mind Spike
Lv. 2 Divination
CT: 1 A
R: 60'
Components: S
Dur: Concentrate for up to 1 hour
Target makes a WIS save, taking 3d8 psychic dmg. on a fail or half dmg. on a save.
On failed save, you always know trgt.'s location until spell ends so long as both of you are
on same plane of existence. While in effect, trgt. cannot benefit from invisiblity against you and can't become hidden from you either.
+1d8 per level above lv. 2.