Sinking a ship from the inside

[Keral]

Hi.

I'd like some thoughts with a few details for my campaign start.

Long story short: the PCs are all aboard a ship travelling from one place to the other. Because of reasons, some undead stealthily boarded the ship during the night and are trying to sink it. It is imperative that a least one of the PCs knows it's undead doing it.


I want to have one or more of the PCs become aware of it and move to the lower deck (I'm not sure about the technical terms, the lower part of the ship anyway) and find these undead doing their thing.

Now, at first I toyed with the idea of the undead bringing a decanter of endless water on board. Setting aside the fact that in more likelyhood these would be lesser undead and I'm not sure if they technically could activate it by speaking, it doesn't seem to be feasible.

According to google and my math, it would take something like 14 hours to fill the lower deck with water. (40ish meters long ship, 12 wide, and I imagine a 2m roof; 960 cubic meters. Apparently a cubic meter holds 1000 liters, the decanter produces 113 per action.)

Now, unless someone tells me that I don't actually *need* to fill the lower deck for the ship to start sinking, and thus it can be done faster even with the decanter (at night, with noone around we could have 3-4 hours before anyone notices anything), I have option #2.


Option #2 is having a couple of undead start hitting the hull and digging a hole through it big enough to sink the ship relatively fast (well, faster than the 14 hours using the decanter).
With this option there is a reasonable excuse to have one or more of the PCs be alerted by hearing the noise, see what's happening and who is doing it and attempt to escape.
However I'd still like to make it somewhat plausible. Thus I'd like to know your thoughts about it. How long could it take to 'cut' through a decently sized ship's hull? Should I try figuring something out by using the rules to damage objects or should I just play it by ear without worrying too much about details and veracity?


Thanks in advance for your help :D

PS: I know that I could probably stil use the decanter option if I were just to bring more on board, but I'd like to avoid that if at all possible.

[Aett_Thorn]

If the party is on a big ship, putting a hole (or holes) beneath the water line would be the easiest way for them to sink the ship. Attacking the hull from the inside with some axes, they could probably do this damage fairly quickly. I would say that you could probably make some educated guesses on how long it would take using the object damage rules, and assume that several undead are working on a section at the same time (meaning that their potential damage is added together for each of their turns). Otherwise, each undead would probably never go above the damage resistance threshold for the boat.

Another option is for the undead to try to disable the ship some other way. Tearing sails, emptying the ballast somehow, or mucking with the steering.

[tieren]

A large sailing vessel would have a keel filled with ballast, most likely rocks.

Relatively unintelligent undead might try to cut a whole in the bottom of the ship and just end up in the ballast compartment and have to cut another hole in the side of the ship below the waterline.

I mention the ballast area because that noise could alert the PC who finds a few skeletons in the hold chopping away where they already opened one hole (where no water came through) and now they are working on another that will really imperil the ship.

[NRSASD]

Axes work, but for real holes use an auger. Basically a hand powered drill, it's not much harder than an axe to use and a lot more effective for putting holes in wood. That being said, why are the undead on board the ship and risking detection? They don't need to breathe, so attacking from outside (where they can't be spotted til its far too late) seems like a better bet. The PCs can still know that undead are responsible if they investigate the holes. Have one of the dimmer undead get a limb stuck in the hole it just bored due to suction.

[Keral]

Another option is for the undead to try to disable the ship some other way. Tearing sails, emptying the ballast somehow, or mucking with the steering.

Ah, yes but the idea is for the ship to sink and have the players be shipwrecked. Perhaps I should have mentioned that. Disabling the ship in other ways that do not end up with it sinking is not what I was looking for.




A large sailing vessel would have a keel filled with ballast, most likely rocks.

Relatively unintelligent undead might try to cut a whole in the bottom of the ship and just end up in the ballast compartment and have to cut another hole in the side of the ship below the waterline.

I mention the ballast area because that noise could alert the PC who finds a few skeletons in the hold chopping away where they already opened one hole (where no water came through) and now they are working on another that will really imperil the ship.

Ah, see, I didn't know about that fact. Tho I'd say that the undead have been given good enough orders to start in the right spot from the beginning.



Axes work, but for real holes use an auger. Basically a hand powered drill, it's not much harder than an axe to use and a lot more effective for putting holes in wood. That being said, why are the undead on board the ship and risking detection? They don't need to breathe, so attacking from outside (where they can't be spotted til its far too late) seems like a better bet. The PCs can still know that undead are responsible if they investigate the holes. Have one of the dimmer undead get a limb stuck in the hole it just bored due to suction.

I had to look up what an auger is. While it would be a better tool for the job, this is more like a crime of opportunity than a planned thing. So it's unlikely the undead had some auger with them.

I didn't think that attacking from the outside would work, like them being unable to dig a hole while fighting against the current and holding on to the ship?


Thanks for your input!

So I'll go with digging at the waterline instead of at the bottom of the ship, which apparently wasn't that good an idea XD

[Aett_Thorn]

Ah, yes but the idea is for the ship to sink and have the players be shipwrecked. Perhaps I should have mentioned that. Disabling the ship in other ways that do not end up with it sinking is not what I was looking for.



Messing with the steering - ship runs into a reef/rocks around the island because it can't avoid them

Messing with the ballast - ship overturns because there's not enough bottom weight

Tearing sails - Ship can't capture the wind effectively, and becomes slower and less able to react to wind changes, runs into rocks or gets overturned

[Sigreid]

Messing with the steering - ship runs into a reef/rocks around the island because it can't avoid them

Messing with the ballast - ship overturns because there's not enough bottom weight

Tearing sails - Ship can't capture the wind effectively, and becomes slower and less able to react to wind changes, runs into rocks or gets overturned

There are lots of stories of cannibalism, starvation and madness about ships whose sails were ruined by a storm.

[Joe the Rat]

I had to look up what an auger is. While it would be a better tool for the job, this is more like a crime of opportunity than a planned thing. So it's unlikely the undead had some auger with them. I'm curious why they'd have the Decanter then.

Trashing the steering (break/disable rudder, cut anchors) definitely opens an opportunity to run aground somewhere. If you want to up the difficulty, add a storm.

You know what else is bad for sailing ships? Fire. Lots of wood, hemp, and canvas all arrayed around, and then you cover half of it in tar. It's like they want to burn it down!

[Lombra]

I'd have the undead work from the outside, underwater, they will start to slowly tear away the ship, the PCs will react only when the undead manage to make a hole from where the zombies and skeletons enter the ship to slow down or halt attempts at repairing the damage, the PCs eventually manage to defeat the demolition company, but it's too late and despite their efforts in repairing the ship, the ship sinks beyond repair and the crew is forced to leave.

[War_lord]

A single flask of alchemists fire would do it, as Joe the Rat said a wooden ship is made of flammable materials, introduce a substance water can't quench and...

[Sigreid]

I'm curious why they'd have the Decanter then.

Trashing the steering (break/disable rudder, cut anchors) definitely opens an opportunity to run aground somewhere. If you want to up the difficulty, add a storm.

You know what else is bad for sailing ships? Fire. Lots of wood, hemp, and canvas all arrayed around, and then you cover half of it in tar. It's like they want to burn it down!

I'd thought of fire but figured the plan was a battle against undead in a sinking ship. Most undead have the same issue with fire as everyone else. Drowning isn't a problem for them though.

[Laserlight]

I'm assuming this is a merchantman. If it's a warship, it will be packed with soldiers and sailors, and there's no way undead would remain undetected.

Tearing sails wouldn't go unnoticed either, and any ship would have a spare suite of sails.

Moving ballast will affect the sailing properties but unless they're forming a bucket brigade and chucking it overboard, that won't sink the ship. And sometimes ballast was large slabs of stone, which would make that impractical.

For a merchantman, the hull planks aren't all that thick. If they're mindless undead, go for chopping a hole below the waterline, or "borrow" augers from the ship's carpenter. If they're more intelligent, start a fire. A merchantman won't have a huge crew--maybe 15-20--so the undead should be able to defend the fire long enough for it to become unstoppable.

If you want to do it from the outside, have the undead cling to the sides during the day and attack the hull at night. Many ships took in sail at night and just loafed along, particularly if they were near land.

Terminology: if you start topside, on the deck, you would go below, to the hold. You'd get into the bilge to check the ballast.

[SirGraystone]

A single flask of alchemists fire would do it, as Joe the Rat said a wooden ship is made of flammable materials, introduce a substance water can't quench and...

Burning a ship is the easiest way to destroy it, what I would do is having an undead spill barrels of oil in the cargo hold of the ship. Have the players rolls perception and the highest notice the smell of the zombie rotting corpse. In the fight against the zombie have a lantern fall down and break, lighting the oil on fire. Lets the players try to use water, it will just spread the burning oil more. If they keep trying to stop it having them rolls save against the smoke to stay awake.

[lunaticfringe]

Exploding Zombies. The players are awoken by an explosion and the ensuing mayhem.

They come across a 'dud' zombie. The zombie activates its magic explodey runes but it just makes a puff of smoke.

[Sigreid]

If you want to be just evil, one of the zombies had a jar containing a black pudding or some such with orders to break the jar.

[Burnteyes]

Burning a ship is the easiest way to destroy it, what I would do is having an undead spill barrels of oil in the cargo hold of the ship. Have the players rolls perception and the highest notice the smell of the zombie rotting corpse. In the fight against the zombie have a lantern fall down and break, lighting the oil on fire. Lets the players try to use water, it will just spread the burning oil more. If they keep trying to stop it having them rolls save against the smoke to stay awake.

This would be my choice.

First thing I think of destroying a ship is fire.

The second is wind, sail/ rutter issue and a reefs.

The oil and water mix is a life lesson and adventure fun at the same time.

[Burnteyes]

If you want to be just evil, one of the zombies had a jar containing a black pudding or some such with orders to break the jar.

Oh crap... Here is an evil idea.

Skeletons board the ship for reasons unknown (DM call) The adventures find them, and yay beat them.

They find and Iron Flask among the skeleton remains around ones neck.

The open the Iron Flask and out pops a Fire Elemental.

I'd need to look at the specifics of the Iron Flask and holding an elemental, but what a allsome way to sink a ship.

[Avigor]

Also, did your math take into account that fresh water weighs more than salt water? I don't know how the difference would effect the calculation for how long till it sinks, but I'd expect that should have an impact if you really wanted to go that route.

But yeah, the black pudding (or any sort of slime that could be contained within a jar) is easily the most evil option, with alchemist's fire / fire elemental iron flask, or some sort of acid or explosive (there are several acidic or explosive options in 3.5 across various books, I'm feeling too lazy to look them all up) to speed up the "hack a hole in the hull" process could work, as could just having the pc's be unaware till the hole has finished being hacked from the outside going in and now the skellies are inside fighting to prevent repairs being done.

[Byke]

An interesting twist would be an undead that possessed one of the characters (that is how they know something is on board and trying to sabotage the ship) and it has now moved on to someone else on the ship.

As for sinking the ship....driving several wedges in between the ship planks (below sea level) works or the navigator piloting the ship into a reef...ect..ect...

[Sigreid]

O.O, what's the motivation for the attack? That will have an effect as well. The right tactic depends on the goal. Just want to kill? Fire at sea is terrifying. Want the cargo? Sink the ship but don't burn it up.

[Zanthy1]

If the lesser undead have a more powerful controller with them, then I have an idea for you. The Necromancer stays below deck and uses the spell passwall to make giant holes in the vessel, ensuring that it sinks. The other undeadhave some variant of explosive runes on them, that have a trigger based on whatever you want, and they go around above deck going boom. This way the PCs for sure see undead, the top of the ship is wrecked, and they may be able to determine that the undead are coming from below deck, when they investigate (getting past any other undead), they see undead crawling through the hole (or holes) created by passwall.

[Kane0]

Undead creep into ship, get into the ballast or bilge and start hacking at the hull to open up holes. Water pressure does the rest, and theres no need to breathe which makes the whole process a lot smoother.
If the undead have a way to attach themselves to the outside of the ship below the waterline they can do the exact same thing to the keel, making them even harder to detect.
If you have a caster available then Acid Splash makes this considerably faster. There are also tons of equipment and magic items that can do the job but if this is unplanned then they may not be available to you.

[Keral]

Thanks guys! You've given me lots and lots to work with!



Messing with the steering - ship runs into a reef/rocks around the island because it can't avoid them

Messing with the ballast - ship overturns because there's not enough bottom weight

Tearing sails - Ship can't capture the wind effectively, and becomes slower and less able to react to wind changes, runs into rocks or gets overturned

Yes but this are all kinda slower ways (excpet perhaps for the reefs), I wanted something more immediate. So there's litte to no time to properly abandon the ship and save oneself.


I'm curious why they'd have the Decanter then.



I figured it could be possible for the evil guys to have a source of fresh water while at seas, or at least a bit more likely than a specialized tool? Probably stretching it a bit...



Oh crap... Here is an evil idea.

Skeletons board the ship for reasons unknown (DM call) The adventures find them, and yay beat them.

They find and Iron Flask among the skeleton remains around ones neck.

The open the Iron Flask and out pops a Fire Elemental.

I'd need to look at the specifics of the Iron Flask and holding an elemental, but what a allsome way to sink a ship.

That's quite the twist! But I'm afraid it won't do. I need the PCs to blame the undead, while in this scenario they'd blame the elemental or the guy who freed it.


Also, did your math take into account that fresh water weighs more than salt water? I don't know how the difference would effect the calculation for how long till it sinks, but I'd expect that should have an impact if you really wanted to go that route.

But yeah, the black pudding (or any sort of slime that could be contained within a jar) is easily the most evil option, with alchemist's fire / fire elemental iron flask, or some sort of acid or explosive (there are several acidic or explosive options in 3.5 across various books, I'm feeling too lazy to look them all up) to speed up the "hack a hole in the hull" process could work, as could just having the pc's be unaware till the hole has finished being hacked from the outside going in and now the skellies are inside fighting to prevent repairs being done.

Not really, tho the decanter can provide salt water as well. I actually didn't consider weight at all (I have no clue how to calculate how much a ship could carry), I just figured that having the whole lower deck filled with water would somehow suffice and thus went with volume?

Also, I'm not sure about the pudding idea, you're not the only one to suggest it but I'm unfamiliar with them. How would they help except by causing mayhem?


O.O, what's the motivation for the attack? That will have an effect as well. The right tactic depends on the goal. Just want to kill? Fire at sea is terrifying. Want the cargo? Sink the ship but don't burn it up.

Ah yes, they're getting rid of the ship because it sailed too close to their secret base in the middle of the sea. So they need to have it look as natural as possible, leaving no witnesses. Of course the PCs will survive by design, but that's beside the point.
That's why I'd avoid fire. It could be the result of an accident but it could lead to suspect of sabotage, so the evil guys would avoid it.


In truth, I could easily have started things post shipwreck. But, even if their actual actions will most likely not change the outcome, I thought it would be nicer to have them play out those few minutes instead of just narrating "you were on a ship, undead sank it and now you're on the coast of what looks like the x region".

[Sigreid]

A pudding would just add mayhem.

If your looking to make it seem an accident, an undead that can become incorporeal or invisible pushing over a deck lantern would do the trick. Fire at sea still does and always has happened all the time.

Also, keep in mind this isn't a freeway. Unless the secret base is in a horrible location it's unlikely there is anyone around to help or witness, and it'll just be another ship lost at sea.

[NRSASD]

Black Puddings dissolve wood effortlessly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think eating wood also causes them to multiply

[Ivor_The_Mad]

if the undead had axes all they have to do is cut some holes in the hull and the ocean will fill it for you. Another option is the undead could have torches and pour tar/rum or other alcoholic beverages on the deck and light it on fire. either work.

[Sigreid]

if the undead had axes all they have to do is cut some holes in the hull and the ocean will fill it for you. Another option is the undead could have torches and pour tar/rum or other alcoholic beverages on the deck and light it on fire. either work.

Don't need to pour anything. Most of the old wooden ships used pitch tar for water sealing. You're basically out riding on a giant quick light fire log.

[Vogie]

Maybe there's a bunch of undead warriors that are there to protect the undead mage that will be the main thing trying to destroy the ship. They're running interference, while one is focusing on a ball of fire, or setting a series of Create BonFires to eat through the hull.

If it's a rather large ship, you could have three waves of undead, each with a different means of wrecking the ship

The first group in the bow area has an iron flask containing a fire elemental, as mentioned above, trying to burn through the hull
The second group, in the middle of the craft, has a metal chest containing a black pudding to eat through the hull, as mentioned above.
The third group, in the stern, has more mundane means of scuttling the ship - Axes to chop through, Pickaxes to punch holes in the hull, using the ship's own cannons to blow holes in the ship, and trying to ignite the black powder and/or alcohol in the hold into a detonation, a blaze, or both.


That way you have a series of potential encounters, with a series of plausible means to take the ship down. If the party is aware of more than one of the groups, they can decide if they want to split up to fight them, or take them out one after another. There's several ways to take each encounter - Stealing the flask, stopping them from opening the chest, et cetera - but also if they don't arrive in time, one of the other means will work. If they're not perceiving and investigating, they may defeat the first two encounters, sit down to rest, and the aft of the ship just blows up.

You could also the group(s) of undead being moderately difficult to defeat on the inside, but doable. If they are defeated, though, one of them grabs a horn, blows it before dying. There's a beat after all of the encounters are done, and then the ship is attacked by an undead kraken.

EDIT: Of course I forgot to mention that you should totally make the PCs able to accidentally destroy the ship. Any fire spells may set it ablaze, any misses may punch holes in parts of the ships' hull or rigging (depending where they're fighting), almost in a friendly-fire sort of manner. Yeah, the Wizard took out all of group three with a fireball... which also ignited all the black powder in the hold. Whoops.