PDA

View Full Version : warlocks



JWhitehead
2007-08-18, 11:22 AM
hello all,
I am interested in playing a warlock in an upcoming campaign, however I have had absolutely no experience with the class. The other people in my group are all very competent and much older than me, Ive only been playing properly for 2 years or so now, as such I dont want to create a dead weight character who leeches exp from the party and gets in trouble:smallfrown:
I was wondering if the wonderfull people here could offer me any advice on playing the class effectively?
I am especially interested in seeing if I can fire eldritch blasts more than once around as well as in what metamagic feats I can apply to them?
any advice would be welcome

the campaign is estimated to go from 1st to 15th and apart from core books we have access to phb2 and all the completes
thankyou in advance for the help which always comes to quickly

Sir Jason
2007-08-18, 11:28 AM
Here's some advice on how to play a warlock effectively:


DONT


trust me, I tried once, and by the end got so frustrated with the character that I ran through the dungeon trying to set off traps to get him killed. They are not worth playing. At all. Ever.

RTGoodman
2007-08-18, 11:48 AM
Well, one thing you can do is not take the above poster's advice at face value. I'd be interested to know exactly why he feels they're "not worth playing."

A lot of people love the warlock (so much that most agree that'll it'll probably be a core class once 4E comes out), and there are a lot of things you can do. Some people argue that after the first 5-7 levels they become obsolete, but that doesn't mean you can't contribute or have fun (but who'd ever create a character to have fun, especially in a social RPG like D&D?).

First off, your Eldritch Blast is unlimited, so fire it as much as you can. Probably the best Invocation to pick up in the early game is Eldritch Spear, which will increase your range and let you hit things really far away. Also, don't forget that you could also start shattering things with your voice. Oh, and you'll eventually be able to use and create any and all magic items using Use Magic Device, which is a good thing.

Secondly, there are some really neat invocations that can help you and your party through some tough spots. The last person I gamed with that played a Warlock used the Stony Grasp series of invocations to great effect, spending most of our battles grappling enemies so the rest of us had an easier time. Also, don't forget that eventually you can get all of the following: essentially permanent spiderwalk, flight, invisibility, etc.; the ability to create magical darkness and the ability to see in normal and magical darkness; debuff enemies via grappling, sickening, and other special damage types; and various other things that I can't remember (all my books are packed up since I'm getting ready to move back to college in like an hour).

Also, some sources to check out (I'll assume you already have Complete Arcane, since you're playing a warlock): Complete Mage has new Invocations, and I think has various PrCs for multiclass arcane-caster/warlocks and divine-caster/warlocks, as well as feats and a PrC for warlocks with Celestial heritage. Dragon Magic, I believe, has new invocations, including Eldritch Glaive, which a lot of people think is great (I don't know what it is, though).

So, in general, I think Warlock is a great class, both for the flavor and the use of a lot of the mechanics.

Benejeseret
2007-08-18, 12:03 PM
First off, no metamagic feats can ever apply to them. The only way to mod the blast is by build in essences/shapes or by the Quicken and Empower ability feats.

Because of above, you never get more than one blast.
**EDIT**This is a great example of what you call a brain-fart...obviously quicken does indeed let you get 2 a round

The key to warlocks are their other invocations other than blasts. A 24hr flying, seeing through all darkness/magic darkness/invisibility, wall climbing, always invisible, never surprised or flat footed, entopically warded, annoyance always surrounded by chilling tentacles or tenacious plagues is the key to being a warlock. And even if the enemy finally locates you (invisible while hiding in magical darkness while blasting) you flee the scene and they spend a round swinging at an illusion as you setup your whole defence again.

But with the invocations being limited and you not having many skills...this is many what you always do. Creative uses for fly, wall climbing, and flee the scene do come in handy.

Also, summoning bat swarms = wins at low levels.
Being a magical bat swarm at higher levels is neat...but a fire-ball or area blast really....really hurts your mere d6 HP/level.



Bene

lord_khaine
2007-08-18, 12:08 PM
First off, no metamagic feats can ever apply to them. The only way to mod the blast is by build in essences/shapes or by the Quicken and Empower ability feats.

Because of above, you never get more than one blast

that really doesnt make sense, first you say he can use quicken spelllike ability, and then you say because of that he can newer get more than 1 blast.

the case is with quicken spelllike ability you can get 2 blasts off in a round.

yango
2007-08-18, 12:16 PM
Warlocks reach the height of their power at about 5th level, before iterative attacks outdo Eldritch Blast, and before casters get enough spells to make unlimited invocations not so shiny.

Solo
2007-08-18, 12:24 PM
I am reasonably satisfied with my warlock.

Here he is for your viewing pleasure:
Iago, UMD specialist. Because nothing beats being able to cast your wizard buddy's scrolls and giving him Quicken Spell for cheap. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=751117)

I would replace Skill Focus UMD and Magical Affinity with Ability Focus (Eldritch Blast) and a Meta-Spell like ability feat.


Here's a great guide for warlocks: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=751117

All in all, I find warlocks to be my third favorite class to play, behind Sorcerers and Clerics.

Zincorium
2007-08-18, 02:05 PM
hello all,
I am interested in playing a warlock in an upcoming campaign, however I have had absolutely no experience with the class. The other people in my group are all very competent and much older than me, Ive only been playing properly for 2 years or so now, as such I dont want to create a dead weight character who leeches exp from the party and gets in trouble:smallfrown:
I was wondering if the wonderfull people here could offer me any advice on playing the class effectively?
I am especially interested in seeing if I can fire eldritch blasts more than once around as well as in what metamagic feats I can apply to them?
any advice would be welcome

the campaign is estimated to go from 1st to 15th and apart from core books we have access to phb2 and all the completes
thankyou in advance for the help which always comes to quickly



I'm going to break with the popular vote and say that this is the best possible situation for a warlock. Warlocks are like monks in that the best thing they do is not die, and trust me, a new player in an experienced group will make a better impression by adding a few damage here and there while not having to be resurrected than by making that glorious last stand and hoping the party has a whole bunch of diamond dust they're not too keen on keeping.


As far as tactics, spider climb, invisibility, and fly all last for 24 hours a pop, use them all the time. Don't waste slots on more than two blast shapes and more than one blast type, the acid-based one is the first good one you get and the level-draining one is it's replacement. Don't forget that you can swap out lower level invocations after a certain point, there are always better choices to replace something you've stopped using. The utility invocations will make or break your survival, learn all about them (remember complete mage!) and decide which ones will see the most use, you have UMD for anything easily replicated by scroll that isn't going to get invoked constantly.

Magill
2007-08-18, 02:21 PM
Just out of sheer randomness, what kind of magic does a warlock use?:smallconfused:

Solo
2007-08-18, 02:23 PM
Spell like abilities.

At will.

Magill
2007-08-18, 02:25 PM
k thanks.

by the way are you a starcraft player?

Solo
2007-08-18, 02:28 PM
Yes, I am.

ForzaFiori
2007-08-18, 02:33 PM
Because of above, you never get more than one blast.


i was under the impression you got as many blasts as you would normal attacks?

Solo
2007-08-18, 02:35 PM
i was under the impression you got as many blasts as you would normal attacks?

Eldritch Frikin' Glaive.

Ulzgoroth
2007-08-18, 02:38 PM
i was under the impression you got as many blasts as you would normal attacks?
It's a spell like ability. Using a blast is a standard action, not an attack action. So no full attack.

Dareon
2007-08-18, 07:36 PM
Warlock can be fun to play, especially in the group described, but if you're looking for the end-all awesome of owning encounters for free with one hand behind your back, look elsewhere.

Otherwise, probably your greatest asset is the ability to do decent damage fairly consistently. Since you're making touch attacks, the AC of most things will be rather low for you. However, you still need to be careful about firing into melee. I recommend picking up Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot when you can (Likely 3rd and 6th level) so you're not accidentally pinging your fighter.

From the start, you should decide what you want your niche to be. In late-game, you'll likely be relegated to support with a handful of wands, since most of the party will be doing more damage per round than you are. In general, though, Zincorium's advice on tactics is quite sound. You will want to stay well back and away from enemies, damage reduction notwithstanding.

If you want to embrace your support role, pick invocations like Baleful Utterance (which can stun enemies for a rogue to finish off, although you risk destroying mildly valuable nonmagical treasure the enemy may be wearing, or just wasting a round if the item targeted is magical, but that particular problem can be worked around) and Relentless Dispelling or Devour Magic. Use Magic Device is your most important skill, with Spellcraft coming in second.

Warlocks can also make a good focused diplomancer. Charm and Beguiling Influence are probably your best invocations there, but Warlock's Call, Mask of Flesh, and Call of the Beast should be effective as well. Cityscape adds Devil's Whispers, as well. Charm will let you enter the Mindbender prestige class, which is actually much more suitable for warlocks than regular casters, due to the expansion of abilities it gets you. Even a 1-level dip in Mindbender will get you telepathy, which can really be handy. If your DM has access to Lords of Madness, see if he'll let you take the Mindsight feat, which is hidden somewhere in the book, I forget where. Sense Motive is your most important skill, followed by Bluff and cross-class Diplomacy.

You can even play battlefield control. Earthen/Stony Grasp, Wall of Gloom, Caustic Mire, Hungry Darkness... The options are pretty good here. Again you should focus on UMD and Spellcraft.

Item crafting requires straight-classing and preparation, since you'll need to preload your item creation feats before you get the class ability. Personally I'd recommend Arms & Armor, Wondrous Item, and Wand for your selections, again focusing on UMD. Another caster in the party can also provide the item creation feat (and the XP).

Choice of essence or shape invocations is really up to you, and likely to be dictated at least in part by your flavor. Mechanically, Vitriolic and Utterdark Blast are the best, but you'll need to wait a good while to get those. Baneful Blast is good if you know your DM is running a campaign heavy in a specific type of creature or that the BBEG is a specific type of creature and/or employs such.

Still, be sure that the invocations you pick are the ones you'll be wanting to use throughout your adventuring career.

Reel On, Love
2007-08-18, 07:41 PM
Play a Dragonfire Adept. They're like Warlocks, but good at something.

More seriously, what you want to be aiming towards is the following: the flight invocation (pretty obviously), the Chilling Tentacles invocation, Repelling Blast, and Chain Blast. Plus the fire-wall invocation.

The end result is that you throw down tentacles, ring them in fire, and then blast people who are getting out of them back in.

Solo
2007-08-18, 09:09 PM
Play a Dragonfire Adept. They're like Warlocks, but good at something.


Does your DFA get to craft scrolls of 9th level spells for himself and use them? Cause my warlock can do that ^^.


I recommend picking up Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot when you can (Likely 3rd and 6th level) so you're not accidentally pinging your fighter.

Its a trap!

Touch AC is low, and combined with your 3/4 BAB, you won't have trouble hitting anything even at a -4 penalty.

MrNexx
2007-08-18, 11:57 PM
Warlocks reach the height of their power at about 5th level, before iterative attacks outdo Eldritch Blast, and before casters get enough spells to make unlimited invocations not so shiny.

Chain Blast is like iterative attacks.

A good PrC to shoot for, incidentally, is out of Races of Destiny. With 2 levels in Chameleon, you get a "floating feat"... at the beginning of every day, you decide what feat you want.

Now, for a lot of days, you're going to want "Extra Invocation", which you now get to define daily. However, some days you'll want to go with a given Craft feat, so you can craft items with your 12th level ability to Craft ANYTHING you have a feat for. You can also choose a "focus" to let you do certain things Warlocks are otherwise incapable of... such as using 1st and 2nd level divine spells of ANY class, or wizard spells from a spellbook you'd be keeping, or adding to your combat prowess with a warrior focus (bonus to hit and weapon damage). You can get into this prestige class as soon as your 6th character level, and a 2-level dip will do a lot for your flexibility (though you'll have to be human and your first feat will have to be Able Learner, you'll fall into the rest of the requirements.

RE: Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot; PBS not only adds a +1 to hit, but also adds +1 to damage when in that short range; a useful ability, but not essential.

robotrobot2
2007-08-19, 09:23 AM
Get a Chasuble of Fell Power! They are relatively cheap(8,000 for a lesser, 32,000 for a greater) and add damage to the warlocks eldritch blast(+1d6 lesser, +2d6 greater). They are some of the greatest warlock items.

MeklorIlavator
2007-08-19, 10:20 AM
You also may want to check out Eldrich disciple from the Complete Mage. Its a cleric/warlock theruge, and lets you p[ick up some rather useful abilities, like one that lets you burn a turn attempt to make your eldrich blast heal people. Combine with eldrich glaive for great healing.

Arceliar
2007-08-19, 01:06 PM
You also may want to check out Eldrich disciple from the Complete Mage. Its a cleric/warlock theruge, and lets you p[ick up some rather useful abilities, like one that lets you burn a turn attempt to make your eldrich blast heal people. Combine with eldrich glaive for great healing.

QFT

Eldritch Disciple = Win, and here's how:
1: Eldritch Glaive (basically a full attack with eldirtch blasts as a reach melee weapon, from Complete Mage)
2: Divine Power, gives you a base attack = character level
Optional: Abuse divine metamagic feats to make Divine Power persistent, if you've got extra feats.

Result: Up to 4 melee reach touch attacks per round, each doing 8d6 damage (+2d6 if you get a Chasuble of Fell Power).

That's a fairly consistent up to 40d6 damage, every round, at level 20. It's a bit less at level 15 for each attack and there'd only be 3 attacks, but it's still quite nice. Combined with Vitrolic Blast it even ignores spell resistance and does extra acid damage on later rounds. If someone gets hurt, use your Healing Blast form Eldritch Disciple for healing overkill. I absolutely love the build. More killing (not to mention less dying) than a warlock, more healing than a cleric.

ImperiousLeader
2007-08-19, 01:58 PM
Warlocks can be good, but the key to Warlocks is UMD. Use it, abuse it, UMD and good equipment are more important at higher levels than the piddling damage from an Eldritch Blast. That said, you do have it, might as well use it. Eldritch Glaive is the only way to get multiple strikes in a round against a single target. Most of the lower level Eldritch Essences are not worth keeping longterm, be sure to swap them out.

Warlocks have decent battlefield control with chilling tentacles and stony grasp invocations, those are definitely worth looking at.

Vitriolic Blast is a must. No SR.


A lot of people love the warlock (so much that most agree that'll it'll probably be a core class once 4E comes out)

Actually, current rumours are that the Sorcerer and Wizard beat up the Warlock and took his stuff, much like the Ranger and the Scout. They kinda did when Complete Mage introduced reserve feats, but 4e looks like it might complete the job.

Aquillion
2007-08-19, 06:25 PM
Still, be sure that the invocations you pick are the ones you'll be wanting to use throughout your adventuring career.Er, warlocks can replace all of their invocations at any level where they learn a new one. Every. Single. Invocation.

A lot of people overlook that, but it can be useful. Just don't replace an invocation with a lower one--you can trade down, but never back up.

MeklorIlavator
2007-08-19, 07:26 PM
Er, warlocks can replace all of their invocations at any level where they learn a new one. Every. Single. Invocation.

A lot of people overlook that, but it can be useful. Just don't replace an invocation with a lower one--you can trade down, but never back up.

Funny, my Complete Arcane says you can replace

At any level where a Warlock learns a new invocation, he can also replace an invocation he already knows with another invocation of equal or lower grade.

MrNexx
2007-08-19, 11:26 PM
Then it becomes a matter of semantics. Does "an invocation" mean one and only one, or does it mean you can replace any given invocation?