New Necromancer Spells

[the_brazenburn]

Here are some ideas I came up with for necromancer-style characters who want more depth in designing their minions. WIP and PEACH. Especially helpful would be suggestions for spell level, as I am not particularly experienced in such matters.

Extract Spirit: 4 level necromancy, V, S, M (a silver bottle or other receptacle costing at least 20 gp)
You remove the spirit of a sentient being that died less than 24 hours ago and trap it in a bottle. If the spirit is unwilling, it is allowed to make a Charisma (?) saving throw. On a failure, the spirit is trapped inside the silver bottle. This can be used as the material component for the spell Bind Spirit.

Bind Spirit: 6 level necromancy, V, S, M (the spirit of a sentient being)
You trap the spirit of a sentient being into a physical form or force it to take on its own form. This spirit could have been procured by Extract Spirit, Conjure Elemental, Conjure Fey, Conjure Fiend, Conjure Celestial, or another spell. An unwilling spirit can make a Charisma (?) save. On a failure, it is bound in the chosen form. It makes a Wisdom saving throw. On a fail, the newly created creature is under your control.

[War_lord]

Extract the spirit is redundant, one of the possible versions of Imprisonment does that.

[SharkForce]

homebrew forums are that-a-way. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?15-Homebrew-Design)

[the_brazenburn]

Possible uses:
Trapping a fire elemental inside a skull (Flameskull)
Using 1/8 of a spirit to create a zombie
Putting a bear's spirit in a human body to create a ghoul
Trapping the essence of a demon in a straw form to create a scarecrow.

Any other ideas?

[the_brazenburn]

Extract the spirit is redundant, one of the possible versions of Imprisonment does that.

It is designed to get a spirit that can be bound into a different form.

[War_lord]

It is designed to get a spirit that can be bound into a different form.

Imprisonment is how a Lich fills its phylactery.

[the_brazenburn]

And Imprisonment is 8th level. This is (hopefully) designed for lower level characters.

[Unoriginal]

And Imprisonment is 8th level. This is (hopefully) designed for lower level characters.

If it's the effect of an 8th level spell, why do you think that another spell with an equivalent effect wouldn't be of equivalent level?

[the_brazenburn]

Because Imprisonment works on living creatures, while this effect only works on the recently dead. It should be more akin to Revivify or Raise Dead by this reasoning.

[Ninja_Prawn]

If it's the effect of an 8th level spell, why do you think that another spell with an equivalent effect wouldn't be of equivalent level?

Well, imprisonment works on living targets, while this requires the target to already be dead. Also it's completely DM-dependent in terms of what you can actually do with it, and I'd question the cosmological implications as well. Souls go to the Outer Planes when their bodies die, so you can't really 'extract' them. Really, what this spell is doing is summoning a spirit back to the Material Plane. As such, it should properly be a conjuration.

[War_lord]

I don't think requiring death should be enough reduce an 8th level spell with a fail state of "if they resist it they're forever immune to you casting it again" to a spell of an unspecified "low level". This is one of the problems I have with people wanting to play a necromancer, they always want to be doing Lich level soul ripping and undead legion raising at level 10.

[Ninja_Prawn]

unspecified "low level"

Well, that's the thing, isn't it? It's time we got specific.

I'd put extract spirit at 4th, because it's weaker than raise dead (brings the spirit back, but doesn't do anything with it), and bind spirit at 5th, because it's weaker than magic jar, in my opinion. Unless you mean for the caster to gain some control over the newly-created creature, in which case I'd bump it to 8th.

[the_brazenburn]

Well, that's the thing, isn't it? It's time we got specific.

I'd put extract spirit at 4th, because it's weaker than raise dead (brings the spirit back, but doesn't do anything with it), and bind spirit at 5th, because it's weaker than magic jar, in my opinion. Unless you mean for the caster to gain some control over the newly-created creature, in which case I'd bump it to 8th.

Okay, I'll edit that. By the way, the created creature makes a Wisdom save to avoid coming under your control. Thanks!