Maximizing GWM hexblade

[Spacehamster]

If you want to maximize hexblade damage potential through multi classing, what dips would the playground suggest? Only musts is GWM, eleven accuracy and maxed CHA so the build needs 3 ASI's, go crazy with the suggestions! Were thinking these stats after racials: 14/14/14/8/9/17 on an half elf. So lots of MC is possible(STR) could be swapped to INT or WIS if you believe there is some better MC than paladin out there. :)

[prototype00]

If you want to maximize hexblade damage potential through multi classing, what dips would the playground suggest? Only musts is GWM, eleven accuracy and maxed CHA so the build needs 3 ASI's, go crazy with the suggestions! Were thinking these stats after racials: 14/14/14/8/9/17 on an half elf. So lots of MC is possible(STR) could be swapped to INT or WIS if you believe there is some better MC than paladin out there. :)

How does MCing out of Hexblade help your damage? I guess you can double-smite with Paladin, but that’s about it (and to efficiently get your Advantage, you are going to need to use your Warlock spell slots to cast Darkness).

Hmmm, I would personally reccomend straight Half Elf Hexblade, blossoming at lvl 8 with GWM.

What say you others?

[agnos]

Is there a specific level or level range you're looking at? Are you playing from 1 up or are you starting at higher level? What magic items (if any) should we plan on (even if it's generic)? Is this for a home game, AL, or just theorycrafting?

It's really hard to answer without giving enough clear direction.

[Spacehamster]

How does MCing out of Hexblade help your damage? I guess you can double-smite with Paladin, but that’s about it (and to efficiently get your Advantage, you are going to need to use your Warlock spell slots to cast Darkness).

Hmmm, I would personally reccomend straight Half Elf Hexblade, blossoming at lvl 8 with GWM.

What say you others?

Hexblade smites are usually useless no since they require pact magic slots which are very limiting, that's why I thought something like 9 hexblade(for all hexblade 1-5 spells), 2 paladin(for normal spell slot smites) and 9 dragon sorcerer(decent hp for full caster, meta magic and lots of smite slots)?sounded tempting. :)

[Spacehamster]

Is there a specific level or level range you're looking at? Are you playing from 1 up or are you starting at higher level? What magic items (if any) should we plan on (even if it's generic)? Is this for a home game, AL, or just theorycrafting?

It's really hard to answer without giving enough clear direction.

Mainly for a game with some friends, we usually start at around level 5-6 to have some more toys to play with, no idea what magic items will pop up, also been itching to try out AL sometime.

[Chugger]

Mainly for a game with some friends, we usually start at around level 5-6 to have some more toys to play with, no idea what magic items will pop up, also been itching to try out AL sometime.

It's fun (AL), especially if you go in understanding what can and can't happen there. It's module play and so has it's own "feel" and quirks. You start at level one so be careful planning out a multi that doesn't shine until deep into tier 3 or 4. Most of AL is tier one and tier 2. Up to lvl 10. People do play on up to 20, sure. But it's harder to find games at those lvls and fewer modules.

Hexblade is going to be a 1 or 2 dip for a lot of others, to get the curse - for a sorc or bard to get armor and shield - for getting Cha stats for meleeing and less MADNESS. You said 3 ASIs to get gwm, ea, and cha 20 - that's four, isn't it? You can't be varHu and get e.a.

If you're a half-elf hexblade you're looking at lvl 4 to get e.a. and what, lvl 8 to maybe get gwm - and you'd at least have a cha 18 at that point. If you want to go feat-heavy fighter maybe, cuz at fi lvl 4 6 8 you get asi's - that's be overall lvl 12 14 16, iirc.

If you want to smite I'd just go sorcadin, maybe with a 1 dip in Hexblade for the Cha synergy.

[Spacehamster]

It's fun (AL), especially if you go in understanding what can and can't happen there. It's module play and so has it's own "feel" and quirks. You start at level one so be careful planning out a multi that doesn't shine until deep into tier 3 or 4. Most of AL is tier one and tier 2. Up to lvl 10. People do play on up to 20, sure. But it's harder to find games at those lvls and fewer modules.

Hexblade is going to be a 1 or 2 dip for a lot of others, to get the curse - for a sorc or bard to get armor and shield - for getting Cha stats for meleeing and less MADNESS. You said 3 ASIs to get gwm, ea, and cha 20 - that's four, isn't it? You can't be varHu and get e.a.

If you're a half-elf hexblade you're looking at lvl 4 to get e.a. and what, lvl 8 to maybe get gwm - and you'd at least have a cha 18 at that point. If you want to go feat-heavy fighter maybe, cuz at fi lvl 4 6 8 you get asi's - that's be overall lvl 12 14 16, iirc.

If you want to smite I'd just go sorcadin, maybe with a 1 dip in Hexblade for the Cha synergy.

If it gets use in the home game it will be more viable and come online quicker cus we always hand out a free feat at level one, but yeah agree it would not be very useful for AL.

[Chugger]

I wanna try playing a pure hexblade just to see how it goes. I've played with mid-level warlocks, and while they only have the 2 slots, they can use them to devastating effect. If they cast it's almost always at a higher lvl or an upcast - or when they do upcast it's nice. The melee benefits - and the spectre - all nice, too.

[Spacehamster]

I wanna try playing a pure hexblade just to see how it goes. I've played with mid-level warlocks, and while they only have the 2 slots, they can use them to devastating effect. If they cast it's almost always at a higher lvl or an upcast - or when they do upcast it's nice. The melee benefits - and the spectre - all nice, too.

True, what do you think of a 3 level whispers bard dip for extra damage dice, skills and expertise?

[Mikal]

Fighter with Battlemaster for Precision Attack (when even with triple advantage you seem to roll bad), Trip Attack (get Advantage without spending a slot on Darkness once in awhile), and Riposte (for an extra attack opportunity if you get attacked and they missed), plus since you're using superiority dice, the damage they do is doubled on any crits you make. Also, extra ASI at level 6 is nice, and level 5 allows you to drop thirsting blade as an invocation.

[Finlam]

Fighter with Battlemaster for Precision Attack (when even with triple advantage you seem to roll bad), Trip Attack (get Advantage without spending a slot on Darkness once in awhile), and Riposte (for an extra attack opportunity if you get attacked and they missed), plus since you're using superiority dice, the damage they do is doubled on any crits you make. Also, extra ASI at level 6 is nice, and level 5 allows you to drop thirsting blade as an invocation.
I think Samurai might be a better choice for the free 6 rounds of all advantage attacks per short rest. It synergizes better worn Elven Accuracy.

[Mikal]

I think Samurai might be a better choice for the free 6 rounds of all advantage attacks per short rest. It synergizes better worn Elven Accuracy.

Long Rest, not short, which is why I like Battlemaster. Less reliable than auto advantage, but its resource recharge at the same rate as your warlock stuff.
But it's also an option!
If your Str is at least 13 like this build, can also go Barbarian for always on advantage vis a vis Reckless Attack, plus Rage if you don't have any concentration effects online. (note Hexblade Curse is explicitly not concentration). While it doesn't help your damage since you need to use Str and you're using Cha, you do get the resistance.

[Spiritchaser]

I’d just go straight hexblade to 8, or F1 for the con save and possibly for heavy armor.

The sooner you hit GWM the better.

After that consider PAM or res CON at 12 (res WIS at 13 if you went F1)

[Skyblaze]

From what I understand, you can't do GWM and elven accuracy because you can't use a 2h weapon with charisma for attack/damage:

"The influence of your patron also allows you to mystically channel your will through a particular weapon. Whenever you finish a long rest, you can touch one weapon that you are proficient with and that lacks the two-handed property. When you attack with that weapon, you can use your Charisma modifier, instead of Strength or Dexterity, for the attack and damage rolls."

[prototype00]

From what I understand, you can't do GWM and elven accuracy because you can't use a 2h weapon with charisma for attack/damage:

"The influence of your patron also allows you to mystically channel your will through a particular weapon. Whenever you finish a long rest, you can touch one weapon that you are proficient with and that lacks the two-handed property. When you attack with that weapon, you can use your Charisma modifier, instead of Strength or Dexterity, for the attack and damage rolls."

Except if you take the Pact of the Blade. Then you can use any weapon you please.

(And that's the 11th time I've said that so far...)

prototype00

[Mooseengr]

Guys, I would like to point out that this whole thread is moot. You CAN'T maximize Hexblade with GWM. GWM is only relevant for heavy weapons, all of which are two handed. Hexblade explicitly prohibits using 2H weapons as your CHA-based weapon.

[prototype00]

Guys, I would like to point out that this whole thread is moot. You CAN'T maximize Hexblade with GWM. GWM is only relevant for heavy weapons, all of which are two handed. Hexblade explicitly prohibits using 2H weapons as your CHA-based weapon.

Except if you take Pact of the Blade, then you can use any weapon you please.

(And No. 12...)

prototype00

[nickl_2000]

From what I understand, you can't do GWM and elven accuracy because you can't use a 2h weapon with charisma for attack/damage:

"The influence of your patron also allows you to mystically channel your will through a particular weapon. Whenever you finish a long rest, you can touch one weapon that you are proficient with and that lacks the two-handed property. When you attack with that weapon, you can use your Charisma modifier, instead of Strength or Dexterity, for the attack and damage rolls."

You can't if you are using a non-bladelock. However, if you choose Pact of the Blade at level 3 your pact blade can be used as your Hex Blade choice and can also be made into a Two Handed Weapon. So, you can get your Cha bonus starting at level 3

[Mikal]

Except if you take Pact of the Blade, then you can use any weapon you please.

(And No. 12...)

prototype00

Should probably add to your sig at this point...
Though technically you need improved pact weapon to make it a ranged weapon (unless you attune a magic ranged weapon as your pact weapon of course.)

[Mooseengr]

Except if you take Pact of the Blade, then you can use any weapon you please.

(And No. 12...)

prototype00

Please explain this a little further? Pact of the Blade allows you to choose the form your melee weapon takes each time you create it. Yes, that allows you to create 2H weapons. yes, you are then proficient with that weapon. Great. You can play a bladelock with a Great Sword, or a Maul. Awesome. Let's squish some bitches.

But the Hexblade ability EXPLICITLY PROHIBITS 2-Handed weapons. It requires you to be proficient with it, and it requires it NOT be a 2-Handed weapon. It doesn't matter if you're a blade lock or not. There is no loophole here that allows the Hexblade to use two handed weapons.

Excuse me. *That allows you to use your CHA modifier for a 2-Handed weapon. If you want to use STR, sure, go for it, that's awesome. You can USE a 2-Handed weapon as a Hexblade, I should have been more clear about that. But you can't use your CHA modifier on a 2Handed weapon.

[Skyblaze]

Except if you take the Pact of the Blade. Then you can use any weapon you please.

(And that's the 11th time I've said that so far...)

prototype00


My apologies for not reading through the whole blurb.

[Mikal]

Please explain this a little further? Pact of the Blade allows you to choose the form your melee weapon takes each time you create it. Yes, that allows you to create 2H weapons. yes, you are then proficient with that weapon. Great. You can play a bladelock with a Great Sword, or a Maul. Awesome. Let's squish some bitches.

But the Hexblade ability EXPLICITLY PROHIBITS 2-Handed weapons. It requires you to be proficient with it, and it requires it NOT be a 2-Handed weapon. It doesn't matter if you're a blade lock or not. There is no loophole here that allows the Hexblade to use two handed weapons.
Emphasis mine



The influence of your patron also allows you to mystically
channel your will through a particular weapon.
Whenever you finish a long rest, you can touch one
weapon that you are proficient with and that lacks
the two-handed property. When you attack with that
weapon, you can use your Charisma modifier, instead of
Strength or Dexterity, for the attack and damage rolls.
This benefit lasts until you finish a long rest. If you later
gain the Pact of the Blade feature, this benefit extends
to every pact weapon you conjure with that feature, no matter the weapon’s type.

Next time try reading to the end?
Also note this means that any conjured pact weapons automatically get this ability in addition to a touched weapon. So you can TWF with cha to hit and damage on both weapons. Confirmed by JC.
In other words... Pact Blade Hexblades can use it on any weapon they want (with the caveat on ranged weapons I mentioned before)

[prototype00]

My apologies for not reading through the whole blurb.

No apologies needed at all, I'm just keeping count because it amuses me. :)

[apepi]

You can go Drow, or even Tiefling for a free cast of Darkness.

[Mooseengr]

Emphasis mine



Next time try reading to the end?

*shrug* Alright. I concede. Should have read that last sentence. Now I'm gonna go find some pretzels to go dump all my salt on. Carry on.

[Mikal]

*shrug* Alright. I concede. Should have read that last sentence. Now I'm gonna go find some pretzels to go dump all my salt on. Carry on.

mmm now I want soft pretzels and some mustard... dang it.
If it makes you feel better, I was morally convinced you couldn't TWF with the ability as a pact blade until I got corrected. It happens.

[Throne12]

Hexblade lv8 / 12 whisper bard gwm Pam glave user

[prototype00]

The one thing I worry about is that even with all the great spells that the Warlock will get, he will mostly spend his spell slots on Darkness in this build, for the draw of Tri-vantage will be too strong. I mean, what other spell could you cast that would give you such an advantage, and enemies such a disadvantage in combat?

But it doesn't upcast or anything, so you are going to be casting a functionally lvl 2 spell forever. Ah well. The ends, prototype00, focus on the ends, not the means.

prototype00

[Spiritchaser]

I’m AFBat the moment, but was there a drow half elven variant? I don’t recall...

[prototype00]

I’m AFBat the moment, but was there a drow half elven variant? I don’t recall...

Yes, gets Darkness 1/day. Not compatible with Hexblade in AL.

prototype00

[Spiritchaser]

Yes, gets Darkness 1/day. Not compatible with Hexblade in AL.

prototype00

That would be a fairly good compromise for some.

[agnos]

Mainly for a game with some friends, we usually start at around level 5-6 to have some more toys to play with, no idea what magic items will pop up, also been itching to try out AL sometime.
I think the most effective option will be Paladin 2 -> Hexblade 4; you finish Hexblade until Extra Attack, then grab 2 levels of Paladin for ASI and more spells, then grab 6 levels of Sorceror, and then grab 2 levels of Paladin. You can mix it up a bit, but the Paladin smite on top of Eldritch Smite with trivantage is good. You can mix in 3 levels of Champion Fighter for always on expanded Crit range if you want; but it’ll likely be level 20 when that’s actually effective. With the Paladin 2 -> Warlock 6 -> Paladin 2 -> Sorceror 6 Build you have strong breakpoints at 8, 10, and 12. Your levels 5-7 will be fine based on at will spike damage bonuses.

[Spiritchaser]

I think the most effective option will be Paladin 2 -> Hexblade 4; you finish Hexblade until Extra Attack, then grab 2 levels of Paladin for ASI and more spells, then grab 6 levels of Sorceror, and then grab 2 levels of Paladin. You can mix it up a bit, but the Paladin smite on top of Eldritch Smite with trivantage is good. You can mix in 3 levels of Champion Fighter for always on expanded Crit range if you want; but it’ll likely be level 20 when that’s actually effective. With the Paladin 2 -> Warlock 6 -> Paladin 2 -> Sorceror 6 Build you have strong breakpoints at 8, 10, and 12. Your levels 5-7 will be fine based on at will spike damage bonuses.

Would you find room for res con in there? If not, maybe best totake paladin to 6?