A Charismatic Fighter?

[CaptainRedbeard]

Hey all,

I was inspired to create a character that was inspired by both Legolas (excellent archer and duel swordfighter, deals with multiple enemies) and Balthier from FFXXII (confident, charismatic).

In order to create this character, I was thinking of going half-elf with a background as a Mercenary, Sailor, Pirate, or Bounty Hunter, with the Everybody's Friend feat.

I'm thinking of going primarily as a Battlemaster Dex Fighter, focusing on controlling the battlefield with archery, followed by upgrading swordsmanship with at least 3 levels in Rogue for the Swashbuckler archetype, Cunning Action, and Sneak Attack, and 3 in Ranger for Hunter's Mark, and two-weapon fighting.

Potential additional feats I'm looking at include Crossbow Expert, Dual Wielder, Mobile, and Sharpshooter. If I go Fighter 12/Rogue 4/Ranger 4, I'll have 6 ABI's/Feats to work with. I'll focus on Dex and Cha as my primary abilities so I can fight and be a face, with my third in Con.

Am I trying to do to much with this character?

If this is doable, what do people think would be the best order to take levels?

If I'm a charismatic Battlmaster, is Rally a reasonable maneuver?

Thanks for you input!

[Specter]

Yes, definitely too much. You should either drop swordsmanship or archery. When I say drop, I don't mean never use them, just don't go out of your way to take them. Fighting with two swords works fine without TWF fighting style.

As for ASI's, you don't need to max Charisma unless you have some good use for it (other than Rally). A 14 or 16 is fine for the concept.

For the levels, reach 5 in fighter, then do the rest.

[nickl_2000]

Let throw this out there as an odd option. What about a Hexblade Dip of 1 or 2 levels. Then you can use Charisma as your attack/damage stat. Then use battlemaster abilities that don't have a DC and you can put Strength and Dex both relatively low.

[PeteNutButter]

Ranger makes it pretty MAD. I'd suggest going something like Fighter 12/Swords Bard 5/Swashbuckler 3.

Maybe take fighter to 5 then bard, then back to fighter? I'm not sure if that fits with your concept though.


Let throw this out there as an odd option. What about a Hexblade Dip of 1 or 2 levels. Then you can use Charisma as your attack/damage stat. Then use battlemaster abilities that don't have a DC and you can put Strength and Dex both relatively low.

That wouldn't work with Crossbow Expert, or any ranged weapon unless you have at least 3 levels for pact, and a magic ranged weapon or improved pact weapon.

[Kuulvheysoon]

If you do decide to drop the Archery focus, then Inspiring Leader would be an excellent feat choice for a CHA-centric character.

[Aett_Thorn]

Going to throw out another odd option and say to check out the Purple Dragon Knight from the SCAG. It's more of a charismatic Knight-feel to it, even if it's not always the best mechanically.

[Nifft]

Two obvious ways I could see this working:

- Dex + Cha Rogue / Battlemaster Fighter (no Ranger) -- mastermind and swashbuckler both seem viable here, get your Dex to 20 and then think about feats

- Dex + Cha Valor Bard (nab some Ranger spells at 10th level)


If you don't mind the non-obvious, Warlock is now pretty good at making Charisma-based melee work. Of course at that point you're not really an archer so much as a ranged spell-sniper, but your ranged spell-sniping is pretty great.

[Waterdeep Merch]

A big question is, are you doing this for theorycrafting or are you actually going to play this character? And if you're going to play them, what level were you going to start at?

You're going to have some real tough decisions regarding multiclassing, ASI's, and feats as-is. If you're starting at level 1, I'd probably not leave fighter until level 5 at the earliest so you can grab Extra Attack and not fall behind the rest of your party. If you end up taking Everybody's Friend at 4, you might not want to leave until level 6 so that you get an ASI bump you can throw into dex, otherwise you won't be seeing another ASI bump until being behind numerically like that becomes a problem.

Speaking of, this means you won't be capable of getting the sorts of feats that make crossbows worthwhile for... a while. Assuming you take your rogue swashbuckler dip after either 5 or 6 levels in fighter and you have no intention or remaining in the rogue class any longer (a good call, I'd say, if playing to 20 you'll want the double Action Surge and third use of Indomitable way more than another ASI), you won't a third ASI until you're level 11. You'll get three more if you stick with strictly fighter, at levels 15, 17, and 19. That could cover for Crossbow Expert, Sharpshooter, capping Dex, and one more of your choice super late. Given your features, I might be inclined to pump charisma afterwards rather than take Mobile (not a great choice for a regular swashbuckler, even more useless on one with 4 attacks later) or Dual Wielder, it just seems too late in the game for either of those.

If you'd like your features to work better in tandem, nix Crossbow Expert and stick with the longbow. You already have very good reasons to keep your bonus action open (Cunning Action, Second Wind). This will also open up an ASI that you could really use to either bump up your HP/Con, cover a weak save with Resilient (Wis will be your bane by then), or just finish off your Cha.

[CaptainRedbeard]

Ranger makes it pretty MAD. I'd suggest going something like Fighter 12/Swords Bard 5/Swashbuckler 3.

Whoops, forgot about the Wis requirement. That makes it much harder.


As for ASI's, you don't need to max Charisma unless you have some good use for it (other than Rally). A 14 or 16 is fine for the concept.


Yea, I'm realizing that for the idea I have in mind, all I really need Persuasion and Deception, not the other Cha stuff. So with Everybody's Friend + already having those proficiencies, I get a big bump to those skills without going heavily into Cha


If you do decide to drop the Archery focus, then Inspiring Leader would be an excellent feat choice for a CHA-centric character.

While I love that idea, I wonder if it will be hampered if I don't go full Cha, per above? I'm not experienced enough to know, TBH.


A big question is, are you doing this for theorycrafting or are you actually going to play this character? And if you're going to play them, what level were you going to start at?


A little bit of both? I have a very specific idea about what this character would be from a roleplaying perspective, which is why I'm avoiding Bard and Warlock, but I want to make it as optimal as possible, so maybe this should have had a roleplaying category instead? It's also theorycrafting, because I'm an inexperienced player I haven't played a high level campaign yet, so I'm somewhat in the dark on which skills are more important in the late game, like Indomitable, for example, which you mentioned. Also, figuring out how high my abilities scores need to be in the late game to be effective. The fact that I overlooked the Wis requirement for Ranger, and the overlap of Mobile and Swashbuckler is evidence of my inexperience. As for the starting level, depends on what my DM wants to do. I think I'd like to pull this out if he starts us on a high campaign with new characters, or if my current character dies, but I wouldn't mind starting from level 1 for a new campaign.

So, from what people have said, it sounds like I should drop Duel Wielding, Crossbow Expert, and Mobile from consideration, leaving Everybody's Friend and Sharpshooter. Per Waterdeep, Resilient seems good too, for Wis.

So, Battlemaster 17/Swashbuckler 3

Point buy to start, with half-elf bonuses: Dex 16, Con 16, Cha 15, Wis 12, Str 8, Int 8.
After ASI's/Feats (6 total): Dex 20, Con 18, Cha 16, Wis 13, Str 8, Int 8.

Is this a reasonable build? Would it be worth dropping Con to to 16 for Inspiring Leader? And I'm still not sure if Rally is any good.

-------

Sidebar to theorycraft again for a moment here, going back to the original idea of BM 12/SB 4/Hunter 4. If I went with the same stats as above, but with Con 16 for Duel Wielding in conjunction with TWF, is this a just generally ineffective lvl 20 character? I know that it's not as optimal as the above, but is it straight up bad?

Thanks again for all your help! Your feedback has been super useful.

[Waterdeep Merch]

-snip-
Inspiring Leader is fantastic and your entire party will love you for taking it. It's fun to roleplay, too. Consider it like taking a higher Con that applies to the entire party. It's a good call.

Your original plan certainly isn't bad, my point is that you won't get to act much like the character you have in mind until very high levels if you need to multiclass that much for it, and the order will matter a lot to make sure it feels fun to play throughout. ASI's are part of those considerations if you're banking on certain feats, alongside figuring out when and if you can fit in bumps to Dex, Cha, and Con.

If you get to start out at a higher level, it's a totally different scenario. You can be sloppy in your ordering and just make things fit, because you won't have to play through levels where you would've been falling behind in order to make a combo work. At that point, even a huge multiclass chain like 12/4/4 suddenly becomes a lot more viable since you can get the 4/4 out of the way immediately and just see how far into the 12 you can make it.

[Citan]

Hey all,

I was inspired to create a character that was inspired by both Legolas (excellent archer and duel swordfighter, deals with multiple enemies) and Balthier from FFXXII (confident, charismatic).

In order to create this character, I was thinking of going half-elf with a background as a Mercenary, Sailor, Pirate, or Bounty Hunter, with the Everybody's Friend feat.

I'm thinking of going primarily as a Battlemaster Dex Fighter, focusing on controlling the battlefield with archery, followed by upgrading swordsmanship with at least 3 levels in Rogue for the Swashbuckler archetype, Cunning Action, and Sneak Attack, and 3 in Ranger for Hunter's Mark, and two-weapon fighting.

Potential additional feats I'm looking at include Crossbow Expert, Dual Wielder, Mobile, and Sharpshooter. If I go Fighter 12/Rogue 4/Ranger 4, I'll have 6 ABI's/Feats to work with. I'll focus on Dex and Cha as my primary abilities so I can fight and be a face, with my third in Con.

Am I trying to do to much with this character?

If this is doable, what do people think would be the best order to take levels?

If I'm a charismatic Battlmaster, is Rally a reasonable maneuver?

Thanks for you input!
Hi!

Well, you are not *really* trying to do too much, but I'd argue you really don't need that many martial related feats.
Don't forget those ASI/feats will be far in-between, so you'd better stick to the idea you get 3 of them with the last far away...
I'd personally stick with either the Sharpshooter and Dual-Wielder combo (if you want to be very versatile but stick with dual-weapons usually) or Defensive Duelist and Shield Master for that Baltier reference.

However, I'd definitely pick Inspiring Leader if you lean more towards Baltier (he is the leader of the group for a while if I remember correctly) whereas you can do without if Legolas is your prime inspiration (that guy has, what, 15 lines in the whole trilogy? XD).

I'm also not sure you need both Rogue and Ranger archetypes, especially if you take Ranger for Hunter's Mark. You'd get 2 casts of it per day for a whole 2-level investment, whereas a single level in Warlock or a Magic Initiate feat would get you a spell that achieves a similar enough (to my taste) result, namely Hex.
Granted, Hunter's Mark is non-typed damage (which can actually be a drawback) and gives you advantage on tracking your enemy, but just grabbing Rogue's Expertise in Perception should achieve similar result in most cases.

In your stead, I'd probably go like this.
Fighter 1 > Rogue 1 > Figter 6 > Rogue 3 > Ranger 3 > Fighter X... If you are set on the tri-class.
Otherwise, I'd work on the CHA benefit and go...
Fighter 1 > Rogue 1 > Warlock 1 > Fighter 6 > Rogue 3 > Warlock 2 > Fighter X... So I can use Hex every fight, and get additional proficiencies and tricks with Invocations (honestly you could just do 1 lone level of Warlock though, real matter of taste here).